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  1. #301
    Depends on what gear you have, but I had a lot of spirit + crit stuff, and I gemmed full crit in yellow socket, spi+crit or int+crit in blue/red sockets and spirit jewelcrafter gems. I was ~24% crit (that's ~30% raid buffed), ~10k spirit, ~3k haste at ilvl 510 (I don't remember exactly, but that's the general idea)

    Now I finally got enough gear (at 522 ilvl) to get safely to the 7.6k haste breakpoint and it felt great (like I-can-do-as-much-healing-as-the-holy-paladin-and-disc-priest-instead-of-being-30%-behind great, plus healing with more haste is more fun). I still have 8.6k spirit (10k with spirit flask) and ~25% crit raid buffed. I only did a farm raid for now but it seems like this give me enough mana to sustain the haste.

    Concerning the spirit for Mana Tide : I only normal 10-man, but I suppose you too if you're ilvl 510. If not, this may not apply to you. What I noticed is that if you're 3-healing normal raids, then your co-healers shouldn't need your mana tide that much if they don't excessively reforge out of spirit themselves. If you're 2-healing the fight, then your own throughput is important because you can't rely on your co-healer all the time, and thus you should only take enough spirit to sustain your own needs so that you can heal enough when the other healer can't heal. Also Mana Tide still give your co-healers mana when you have less spirit, just (a bit) less.
    Of course in 25-man it's different because more healers benefit from your Mana Tide, and you're never the only one responsible for keeping the raid alive (which can happen while 2-healing 10-man)

  2. #302
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    Before I got my 4 set piece on Monday I was rolling with the 7613 hbp, then I got my 4 set piece and tried out a high crit build (26% fully buffed) and I must admit I prefer having the higher haste. Faster casting just feels nicer. after losing haste off of non-tier set pieces i've had to gem straight haste for some of my sockets to reach 7613.

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  3. #303

  4. #304
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    I just got forced to switch resto from ele and im a bit confuse, when i was resto (start of mop and before switching to ele) we had several haste cap, and mastery had to be at 50%, why is it not viable anymore ? because this is basically how i build my resto set frome my ele gear:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Akuun/advanced

    I did go for the thirds haste cap ( 5676 breakpoint ), mastery near 50% (51.44) And crits as my lowest stats: 5.95% (3569) As for now i dont have mana issue wich is basically why i did go for low crits and 50% mastery.

    How is this build, which is seems to be the old kind of build, and still viable (by Noxxic)
    Im just curious of which kind of build i should follow, i like casting fast and basically why i did go for high haste (since i could afford it with the kind of gear i have (mostly old ele gear))

    ty for you help on helping a confuse shaman :x

  5. #305
    tip: use totemic recall glyph, track your legendary meta gem and when it procs just put down magma totem (and HST if not on cd) then pick up (at the end of HST) with recall and u gain 12k(+14k) mana, just be careful, dont destroy any other important totem. It helps a lot with regen so u can focus on other secondary stats. If i were u, i would go for next healing rain haste breakpoint (7613 haste) > 50% mastery > crit.

  6. #306
    Really nice dedication to a guide ! I've read itm, even tho i dont have any pve interest.

  7. #307
    I think it's pretty safe to say at this point that for 10 man normal mode raiding, mastery isn't a very...desired...stat? From the discussion I've seen a lot of love for a crit build after hitting whatever haste breakpoint you can safely get to at your ilvl, and I personally go with that build and find it works best for me.

    My guild's recruited a couple of resto shammies lately who've performed pretty poorly, going full mastery after the 3764 haste break point (and sometimes not even that much haste). I've pushed them towards higher crit/haste if necessary, and explained why, and seen a marked improvement. What I'm wondering is...where are these guys getting their info? Are they carryovers from Dragon Soul where mastery was king? They seem to be doing it without any conscious thought as to why, so I assume they're blindly following some guide from somewhere.

    Has anyone else come across this?

  8. #308
    1. Shaman don't always perform very great compared to other healers. The more absorbs and the more the other healers are competent, the more shaman will go down on the healing meters

    2. I didn't see a single source of information saying mastery was a good stat since MoP. But I did read strange things about it. First there is a very common rumor saying there is a mastery cap at 50%. I was never able to see a proof for it. So some shamans may try to get to get extra mastery to get to that threshold. But really, except if they play with poor healers or 2-heal everything, they should have mastery as low as possible.
    Also, some guides states that mastery is a (slightly) mana positive stat (including the very good guide from Vixsin at Lifeingroup5.com), which isn't really true and could make people think that mastery is better than it is. In reality, mastery isn't more mana positive than intellect, that is : you cast bigger heals so sometimes you should be able to cast less spells and thus save mana.

  9. #309
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkidy View Post
    What I'm wondering is...where are these guys getting their info? Are they carryovers from Dragon Soul where mastery was king? They seem to be doing it without any conscious thought as to why, so I assume they're blindly following some guide from somewhere.

    Has anyone else come across this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zahia View Post
    1. Shaman don't always perform very great compared to other healers. The more absorbs and the more the other healers are competent, the more shaman will go down on the healing meters

    2. I didn't see a single source of information saying mastery was a good stat since MoP. But I did read strange things about it. First there is a very common rumor saying there is a mastery cap at 50%. I was never able to see a proof for it. So some shamans may try to get to get extra mastery to get to that threshold. But really, except if they play with poor healers or 2-heal everything, they should have mastery as low as possible.
    Up until a few weeks ago, I remember that a guide at Icy Veins was recommending a mastery build for 10-man shamans. It was brought up to date since then though. (In their recommended gems section they still make the distinction though and recommend spi/mastery for 10-man and spi/crit for 25-man.) Maybe there are other guides or reforges sites out there that are outdated and recommending silly stuff.

    About that 50% mastery threshold that doesn't exist... Well, it's really really hard to have less than that, considering the gear that you acquire. It was already hard to have less than that in T14. Now it's even harder to get rid of mastery because if you get a mastery piece, it has shitloads of mastery, and you can only reforge away so much of it. So, you'll see oodles of shamans with around 50% mastery running around and draw the conclusion that that might be a good idea. But those 50-something percent only stem from them not being able to get rid of any more of it.

    I've armoried my fair share of successful shamans that go for ridiculously high mastery builds. More power to them. But that isn't to say that their performance might not be better with a different stat allocation.

    I know a mastery build isn't my cup of tea in MoP. I tried all stat variations during T14 just because everywhere you looked you saw all kinds of different advice. It's always like that at the beginning of an expansion, and you really can't tell which approach is the right one until you've tried it out. Listening blindly to some guide is never a good idea. You need to know WHY you're listening to a suggestion. You need to know WHY you pick glyph A over glyph B. "Because that guide said so" isn't a good enough reason. And especially at Elegon, I threw thousands of gold into reforging and regemming, to finally say "Screw mastery, I'm reforging to crit and gemming stuff that has spirit and crit and will stick to whatever haste breakpoint is realistically reachable without gimping everything else." And I've stuck to that.
    Last edited by Seriss; 2013-08-02 at 09:45 AM.

  10. #310
    The "50% mastery softcap is good" myth stems from very early MoP, back when most of us were half blue/half epic and were finishing up normals of t14/working on heroics. Back then in 5.0 the following was true:
    • I'm assuming around 475 ilvl for most of these (aka start of heroics)
    • Haste was horrible, most people were going for 871+AS. Spirit was also a very meaningful stat, which left us with a priority of Spi>Crit>Mastery, because you couldn't avoid those mastery items while keeping haste low. This automatically resulted in ~50% mastery. The ToT haste (and arguably 10 man spirit req) "revolution" is mostly fuelled by the presence of LMG.
    • Class balance: Disc PoH spammage wasn't great until 5.1, and even then a lot of them were actually constrained by their stats, low ilvl disc priests were bad. Same with pallies, the current EF blanketing playstyle simply didn't exist, because they couldn't sustain so much HR spam for HP.
    • Because of the above, absorbs weren't as present during progression. Which lead to most guides written at the start of the expansion to have a positive/neutral opinion on mastery.
    • While mastery became bad during T14HC farm, we still couldn't switch to other secondary stats because 7613+AS was really hard to attain, so most people just continued on with cri>mst for next tier progression.
    • Most proactive community members finished ToT progression before LMGs became readily available.
    Healing with different classes since Vanilla
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Higgs/advanced

  11. #311
    Makes a lot of sense. At 519 ilvl I'm reforged entirely away from mastery and still on about 52%, but we ran into a guy the other day who was up around 70%-ish. Was doing maybe 30-40k hps on Jin Rokh heroic. Could have just been bad, but...

    Guess these guys just haven't really kept track of how things have been going since the beginning of MoP.

  12. #312
    Resto shaman stats addon helps you to figure out, which stat is beneficial for you

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Cedlina View Post
    Resto shaman stats addon helps you to figure out, which stat is beneficial for you
    That is pretty neat. For my character fights with are generally close for stats. The only fights where Crit vastly beat mastery in throughput (>5%) were Jinrokh and fights where Mastery vastly beat Crit were Primordius. Other than it, it was fairly close for Mastery/Crit.

  14. #314
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    That is pretty neat. For my character fights with are generally close for stats. The only fights where Crit vastly beat mastery in throughput (>5%) were Jinrokh and fights where Mastery vastly beat Crit were Primordius. Other than it, it was fairly close for Mastery/Crit.
    I ran with that addon last night. Neat toy, I like.

    For me, crit was almost always around twice (occasionally even more) as valuable as mastery. Mastery never beat crit.

  15. #315
    For me, Crit is always 2-4 times as valuable as Mastery, but it's heavily dependent on your healing composition. Mastery generally requires 3000+ itemization points to gain 1% throughout, which makes it just a staggeringly bad stat.

  16. #316
    I am rerolling Resto Shaman for my raid. Is this guide still up to date, or is it outdated? If outdated, where can I find a current guide?

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberria View Post
    For me, Crit is always 2-4 times as valuable as Mastery, but it's heavily dependent on your healing composition. Mastery generally requires 3000+ itemization points to gain 1% throughout, which makes it just a staggeringly bad stat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    I ran with that addon last night. Neat toy, I like.

    For me, crit was almost always around twice (occasionally even more) as valuable as mastery. Mastery never beat crit.
    That is interesting, though our comp is a holy/disc (Mostly holy) and resto shaman and we have no 5% crit buff. 2 heal all the fights except for maybe H-Council, everything else is 2 healed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dante Vale View Post
    I am rerolling Resto Shaman for my raid. Is this guide still up to date, or is it outdated? If outdated, where can I find a current guide?
    http://www.icy-veins.com/restoration...-healing-guide is pretty decent and up to date. Their BiS Trinket choice is kinda iffy.

  18. #318
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    http://www.icy-veins.com/restoration...-healing-guide is pretty decent and up to date. Their BiS Trinket choice is kinda iffy.
    They still recommend spirit/mastery gems for 10-man though. Ignore that bit. They probably haven't got around to updating it when they already removed the 10-man-mastery suggestion from another part of that guide.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aviators View Post
    That is interesting, though our comp is a holy/disc (Mostly holy) and resto shaman and we have no 5% crit buff. 2 heal all the fights except for maybe H-Council, everything else is 2 healed.
    I generally 2-heal with a holy-paladin. When we 3-heal, it's usually a resto druid added to the mix.

    And for funsies, I have the addon running when doing pvp. Crit tends to beat mastery by such miles that it isn't even funny anymore in pvp (talking about >10% for mastery vs. >30% for crit).
    Last edited by Seriss; 2013-08-11 at 08:54 AM.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post


    I generally 2-heal with a holy-paladin. When we 3-heal, it's usually a resto druid added to the mix.

    And for funsies, I have the addon running when doing pvp. Crit tends to beat mastery by such miles that it isn't even funny anymore in pvp (talking about >10% for mastery vs. >30% for crit).
    What do you with the meta proc and nothing to heal? I run with the riptide glyph. And blanket people people with the proc and riptide ends up being one of my top heals with around 30% overheal. And depending on if its a spread healing fight like H-Twins, it ends up being my #1.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Seriss View Post
    They still recommend spirit/mastery gems for 10-man though. Ignore that bit. They probably haven't got around to updating it when they already removed the 10-man-mastery suggestion from another part of that guide.
    What should it be instead? I am coming in fresh here, is there a guide that is updated and correct?

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