Page 1 of 7
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Enhancement 6.0 Thread

    OK, so 6.0 is live and since I haven't seen a thread relating to the spec post-patch, I think we definitely need one much like other forums and classes have, to stimulate discussion about the state of the spec.

    From my experience, with current stat weights some talents are forced into being undesirable but this won't extend into WoD as is clearly an after-effect of sockets + abundance of stats and choices, so I am relatively pleased, however, our single target seems to have taken a bit of a knock relative to SOME other classes, as has our utility in some niche cases, particularly raid healing CDs, but by and large I am pleased.

    One thing I do not like however, is how Enhancement seems to be dangerously balancing on the precipice of switching to a niche AoE spec, which is a complete about-turn in design and philosophy since the spec existed, and whilst it is hilarious to press fire nova and do a billion damage, it pushes problems. A lot of this is potentially alleviated by very key perks we are missing on the road to 100, but with less raid spots, it may throw us into question.

    Anyone else with any input? Now the patch is here I'm hoping we can go back to the active Shaman forums and stimulate discussion and get the long-term sufferers to discuss this as a team and hopefully get as much feedback to devs as we can with any arising issues and design problems, as this is the largest and generally most active community for this
    Enhancement Shaman | Feral Druid | Windwalker Monk

    “All things are subject to interpretation, whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”

  2. #2
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,305
    Fire nova doing 100k's of dps in a 10-30k dps environment is fun, but I really prefer the single target over aoe capability in raids.

    It's been great for soloing cata raids though.

    I'd like if the healing from wolves was spread out elsewhere - healing rain would be great as I feel HS isn't too weak (and don't want to make it too powerful) and AG being a talent is utter awful right now. Having wolves up is near god mode self healing wise I've found, but moment they're gone its awkward.

    Oh and pls stormblast back pls, having seen the animations many other classes are rocking I still don't see any justification for it's removal. The thematic excuse was just pure BS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  3. #3
    The new fire nova is almost like ret's wotlk divine storm. It's insane.

    Is that spirit wolf glyph gonna become a thing, the one reducing it's CD and duration? I mean it may turn into a...what, 30 sec CD?

    Edit: Also, it's nice to have this thread after months of being drowned in Elemental complaints.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    The new fire nova is almost like ret's wotlk divine storm. It's insane.

    Is that spirit wolf glyph gonna become a thing, the one reducing it's CD and duration? I mean it may turn into a...what, 30 sec CD?

    Edit: Also, it's nice to have this thread after months of being drowned in Elemental complaints.
    Remember no assurance post-WoD so Feral Spirits is back to 2min CD, so it puts the glyph at a 1min CD 15 sec duration when you can actually get the glyph post-WoD launch.

    Fire Nova is absolutely crazy though because it technically bypasses the target cap that AoEs usually suffer, it's just super niche before it starts activating. Just wonder how much our single target is going to suffer because of our AoE strength :l
    Enhancement Shaman | Feral Druid | Windwalker Monk

    “All things are subject to interpretation, whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.”

  5. #5
    Single target going to suffer? hmm...I was thinking our single target dps went up based on the group I was in last night. Though I have to admit it wasn't a serious test at all... basically it was me as a 568 enh shaman in a full group for ordos, I was second in dmg done & dps while the first was also enhancement, we were both a bit ahead of the rest.

    Anyone here in an actual raiding guild that can tell me if enh is better now or was I just lucky (or unlucky for having a bad group)?
    An Apple fanboy called me a retard.
    In the real world that makes me a genius.

  6. #6
    You know, random raids dont count. And on another note, everything is just soooo easy right now, so fights are extremely short and fire elemental uptime is insanely high. That makes us look stronger than we really are because even all sims expect 3-4 times longer fights.

    Our single target dps is really bad on normal fight lenghts like 5-10 minutes. But by buffing our elemental, we look stronger than we are on those 1.5 to 2 minutes fights.

  7. #7
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,305
    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    Single target going to suffer? hmm...I was thinking our single target dps went up based on the group I was in last night. Though I have to admit it wasn't a serious test at all... basically it was me as a 568 enh shaman in a full group for ordos, I was second in dmg done & dps while the first was also enhancement, we were both a bit ahead of the rest.

    Anyone here in an actual raiding guild that can tell me if enh is better now or was I just lucky (or unlucky for having a bad group)?
    Not a chance it's better right now. Your group will likely need time to get used to the changes
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Cheshire, England
    Posts
    3,467
    Gotta say, throwing numbers aside, I'm incredibly happy with how the spec feels to play, I'm having a blast compared to some of my alts who have kinda become less fun since the patch.

  9. #9
    Good that we finally have a sanctity of battle equivalent - shame it took 2 expansions.

  10. #10
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clarksville, TN
    Posts
    535
    Quote Originally Posted by dahmer View Post
    Single target going to suffer? hmm...I was thinking our single target dps went up based on the group I was in last night. Though I have to admit it wasn't a serious test at all... basically it was me as a 568 enh shaman in a full group for ordos, I was second in dmg done & dps while the first was also enhancement, we were both a bit ahead of the rest.

    Anyone here in an actual raiding guild that can tell me if enh is better now or was I just lucky (or unlucky for having a bad group)?
    Being top in dps on Ordos is like winning Gold at the special Olympics, you won gold but did you really win. Too many people AFK and don't try on the fight so it can’t be trusted.

    I raid on Sat and Sun mornings I will know tomorrow morning how much of a hit we took at level 90.

    DPS is not how to measure your performance, damage is. We have to wait to we hit 100 and see how it plays out.
    Last edited by Shockzilla; 2014-10-17 at 12:38 PM.

  11. #11
    What Raiju said. Ordos groups are a very poor test bed, for DPS comparisons between specs. I've always found that most folks in those random groups play sub-optimally, and aren't likely to pre-pot, use flasks, etc. Then you have the variable of "who's using the timeless isle buffs, vs. who isn't?"

    I haven't been able to do a mythic SoO yet, this week, but our guild's heroic runs "feel" like enhancement is less powerful, relative to other specs, than before. My own guild runs are still a very poor test bed, as I outgear everyone in this week's run, by anywhere from 6 to 30 ilvls. Then you factor in the most recent news, where fury, fire, and demo are getting the nerfbat, and it's just too soon to say.

    Another factor that makes comparisons tough is that 6.02 is so new, that you have to question whether the people you're comparing yourself to are enchanted and gemmed optimally, and whether they're using an optimal rotation. (I'm questioning the same of myself, a little, even though it really doesn't matter until T17 is in full swing.)

  12. #12
    I only have a random hc soo that i did. Beaten by 2 rogues on single and basically ruled aoe , with only warriors coming close. But raid with random ppl.

  13. #13
    They are defintely a lot weaker, lvl 90 performance is quite solid because of very high FET uptime.

    But over a 7 minute fight, we would be really bad. It's our "luck" we have so short fights.

    AOE wise, it's a question how good your group is. In my raid, adds die in 2 instants. At best you get 1 fire nova. Cleave damage is solid, only real AOE damage is kind of op, but this isn't a numbers problem, it's a mechanics problem.

  14. #14
    As some one mentioned, numbers aside enh reminds me of 3.3.3 ICC being GCD capped, it's beautiful. Even more so with echo of the elements for giggles. However, I will say I definitely noticed a bit of a dps drop. Obviously the game isn't balanced around 90, and we don't have our maelstrom perk. We'll really just have to see how it is max level.

    A few things that I do find frustrating -

    - UE no longer doing damage, this makes tagging mobs a bit of an inconvenience
    - As melee, not being able to cast lightning bolt while on the move sucks. I know I've gone 3 expansions without it, but hot damn was it a huge quality of life thing for enh
    - AG does a minimal amount of healing now. I understand it was kind OP especially with AE and CD's rolling, but now it seems a useless.
    - No healing tide totem.
    - AE is extremely powerful but still time consuming to set up, compared to other classes.
    The world is a deaf machine.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Fire nova doing 100k's of dps in a 10-30k dps environment is fun, but I really prefer the single target over aoe capability in raids.

    It's been great for soloing cata raids though.

    I'd like if the healing from wolves was spread out elsewhere - healing rain would be great as I feel HS isn't too weak (and don't want to make it too powerful) and AG being a talent is utter awful right now. Having wolves up is near god mode self healing wise I've found, but moment they're gone its awkward.

    Oh and pls stormblast back pls, having seen the animations many other classes are rocking I still don't see any justification for it's removal. The thematic excuse was just pure BS.
    I am a fully heroic (mythic) geared enh shaman. and i raided this week.
    we did see a small loss to single target dps. but only a small loss compared to other classes. our Niche AoE is a lot stronger than it seems. On 2-3 target fire nova cleave, enhancement is performing very very well if not Top dps.

    most/all WoD raid bosses will have adds or multiple bosses to hit constantly. Cleave/ Burst AoE classes will be preferred for WoD putting enhancement in a good place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthetics View Post
    As some one mentioned, numbers aside enh reminds me of 3.3.3 ICC being GCD capped, it's beautiful. Even more so with echo of the elements for giggles. However, I will say I definitely noticed a bit of a dps drop. Obviously the game isn't balanced around 90, and we don't have our maelstrom perk. We'll really just have to see how it is max level.

    A few things that I do find frustrating -

    - UE no longer doing damage, this makes tagging mobs a bit of an inconvenience
    - As melee, not being able to cast lightning bolt while on the move sucks. I know I've gone 3 expansions without it, but hot damn was it a huge quality of life thing for enh
    - AG does a minimal amount of healing now. I understand it was kind OP especially with AE and CD's rolling, but now it seems a useless.
    - No healing tide totem.
    - AE is extremely powerful but still time consuming to set up, compared to other classes.
    AoE seems to be very easy to setup now. not to mention maga totems is finally useful. with echo you can have flame shock on many many targets very fast. Having 2, 3 or 4 fire nova in a row is totally worth the 2 global setup, and at 90 lava spread glyph will make flame shock spread insanely easy.

    for movement try using the frost shock glyph and fire nova (if 2 targets, or to fish for echo procs). frost shock is currently hitting as hard as stormstrike and haste can put it under a 3 second cool down. that gives us something to damage with every other global, and something to do on every global if we have 2 targets to hit with fire nova. the empty global with frost shock spam gives us a chance to drop totems, pop cooldowns or move totems when we would otherwise be global capped. not sure if using UE on the move is good unless the next global will be in melee range, have to check and see if the haste buff still benefits our pets/totems.

  16. #16
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,305
    Quote Originally Posted by kreearra View Post
    I am a fully heroic (mythic) geared enh shaman. and i raided this week.
    we did see a small loss to single target dps. but only a small loss compared to other classes. our Niche AoE is a lot stronger than it seems. On 2-3 target fire nova cleave, enhancement is performing very very well if not Top dps.
    Compared to warriors, warlocks, mages, druids, rogues?
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  17. #17
    Well, my guild did a heroic clear this week and my dps relative to my group went down on single target fights. I went from #1 to #3.

    I'm having some issues with totem timers not tracking Frost Shock which is giving me a hard time while dpsing. I'm missing some shocks here and there because I'm so used to my setup I forget to check FS's cooldown.

    AoE was improved. In fact it used to be that a DK on my guild would do more AoE dmg and I would do more single target. This week we switch places.

    Tagging mobs is a pain now without UE dmg. I don't miss LB while running though but I found out how much I liked casting Chain Heal. It felt nice to self heal and also help anyone near by.

    Overall I hoped to see some signs of enhacement getting some buffs but even in today's list of specs to fix there was no mention of any shaman specs.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kreearra View Post

    for movement try using the frost shock glyph and fire nova (if 2 targets, or to fish for echo procs). frost shock is currently hitting as hard as stormstrike and haste can put it under a 3 second cool down. that gives us something to damage with every other global, and something to do on every global if we have 2 targets to hit with fire nova. the empty global with frost shock spam gives us a chance to drop totems, pop cooldowns or move totems when we would otherwise be global capped. not sure if using UE on the move is good unless the next global will be in melee range, have to check and see if the haste buff still benefits our pets/totems.
    I'm 585 on my enh shaman, it's not that I'm having an issue with movement, but I think that not being able to move/cast LB is a bit silly, as we're melee. Sure, we'll get the UE 30% movement speed buff, but as melee, our niche is mobile dps. Just like it has been for ages, you'll want to start casting LB @ 2-3 MW stacks, even with 50% haste it's a pain in the ass if the boss needs to be adjusted. At least prior to the to the mobile lightning bolt, we had Spirit Walkers grace which helped with that. However, that's something that enh lost. I just feel LB while being able to move was a massive QoL change that enh got in MoP, and it's something we should have been able to keep.
    The world is a deaf machine.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthetics View Post
    I'm 585 on my enh shaman, it's not that I'm having an issue with movement, but I think that not being able to move/cast LB is a bit silly, as we're melee. Sure, we'll get the UE 30% movement speed buff, but as melee, our niche is mobile dps. Just like it has been for ages, you'll want to start casting LB @ 2-3 MW stacks, even with 50% haste it's a pain in the ass if the boss needs to be adjusted. At least prior to the to the mobile lightning bolt, we had Spirit Walkers grace which helped with that. However, that's something that enh lost. I just feel LB while being able to move was a massive QoL change that enh got in MoP, and it's something we should have been able to keep.
    Funny how losing caster mobility affected us. I used to cast SWG regularly, every time I had to run back/away I either cast it (or used to) to cast chain heals on me or to drop a healing rain where I was going. Also casting LBs while chasing a target was a nice thing to have... although I bothered me when I pressed a LB at 2 stack and couldn't cancel it by moving. Still, I sort of miss the complexity of using SWG and casting bolts on the run.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    Funny how losing caster mobility affected us. I used to cast SWG regularly, every time I had to run back/away I either cast it (or used to) to cast chain heals on me or to drop a healing rain where I was going. Also casting LBs while chasing a target was a nice thing to have... although I bothered me when I pressed a LB at 2 stack and couldn't cancel it by moving. Still, I sort of miss the complexity of using SWG and casting bolts on the run.
    I think I'd be less bothered by the changes if they kept SWG, it would give us a little extra oomph. I know we have tools like ascend/ect but it doesn't do shit when it's on CD and we have to chase after the boss. It is what it is, maybe blizz will show enh a little love down the road, and let us move/cast again. I lived just fine without it, but still.. It was super useful.
    The world is a deaf machine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •