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  1. #121
    Field Marshal BigNeptune's Avatar
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    Just curious about some opinions for those with a heavy progression mindset in terms of Heroics starting this week.

    Glyph Of Riptide - You guys a big fan of this? On some fights I enjoy being able to keep this rolling while we are moving constantly such as Elegon or Spirit Kings but even without the glyph it hasn't been hard to keep Tidal Wives up at a very consistent and lengthy basis.

    Glyph Of Chaining - Have not found much, if any use for this considering nearly every boss has had a stack phase or a phase where you are in close proximity to hit maximum targets.

  2. #122
    Does anyone have an idea on what fights to glyph WS and what fights to stay away from it?
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  3. #123
    Field Marshal BigNeptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    Does anyone have an idea on what fights to glyph WS and what fights to stay away from it?
    Only fight that really stood out to me was Feng due to Epicenter and the AoE Cleave from his Draw Fire. Other than that I left it unglyphed.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by takolin View Post
    Does anyone have an idea on what fights to glyph WS and what fights to stay away from it?
    Only fight where WS should be glyphed for sure is Stone Guard. On Feng/Elagon it is about neutral and not worth a glyph spot. Spirit Kings it is a slight mana gain, still not really worth a glyph spot. On Gara'jal/Will glyphing WS results in a mana loss compared to unglyphed.

    Overall, most of these vary so you should look at your own logs and determine if it is worth it.

  5. #125
    I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the higher haste caps if they are easily attainable. For example, as a goblin resto shaman, my gear alone puts me ahead of the 3306 caps for HS and HT, without having to work for it through reforging or enchants/gems. Should I always go for a haste cap if its in range like that?

    Normally I'd say yes automatically but everyone I talk to is of the 'avoid haste at all costs except for that first point' opinion. I'm not sure if that's just because they can't get to the other caps as easily as I can.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by BigNeptune View Post
    Just curious about some opinions for those with a heavy progression mindset in terms of Heroics starting this week.

    Glyph Of Riptide - You guys a big fan of this? On some fights I enjoy being able to keep this rolling while we are moving constantly such as Elegon or Spirit Kings but even without the glyph it hasn't been hard to keep Tidal Wives up at a very consistent and lengthy basis.

    Glyph Of Chaining - Have not found much, if any use for this considering nearly every boss has had a stack phase or a phase where you are in close proximity to hit maximum targets.
    I am really not a fan of glyphed Riptide in almost any 25 man encounter (Lei Shi on Beta was the only exception). Healing Rain and Chain Heal are usable enough and more mana efficient than Riptide spam. When I was doing 10H testing on Beta, I probably had it in for 50% of fights and out for 50% of fights. It's a pretty significant HPM loss on Riptide, so you have to get used to the fight, your raids positioning and determine how badly the extra spread AOE healing is needed.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerenth View Post
    I was wondering what other people's opinions are on the higher haste caps if they are easily attainable. For example, as a goblin resto shaman, my gear alone puts me ahead of the 3306 caps for HS and HT, without having to work for it through reforging or enchants/gems. Should I always go for a haste cap if its in range like that?

    Normally I'd say yes automatically but everyone I talk to is of the 'avoid haste at all costs except for that first point' opinion. I'm not sure if that's just because they can't get to the other caps as easily as I can.
    You should reforge down to 1576 cap and take EM. At such high haste levels, the value of haste is diminished as a throughput stat. You will also have much more problems with mana than you would if you reforged to crit/mastery.

  8. #128
    oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could just not take AS to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

    also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

    this is my page for reference:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...renth/advanced
    Last edited by Amerenth; 2012-10-09 at 08:48 AM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerenth View Post
    oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could take echo to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

    also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

    this is my page for reference:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...renth/advanced
    Your choice, il you want full gem for spirit without managing your mana, do it. Or you can manage your mana, heal more because you gem for sockets bonus with mastery/crit and own meters.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Table View Post
    Haste cap for Goblins is 782.
    Sorry, where does the 782 come from? Can't see it in the goblin table anywhere.

    I can see this part in the guide:

    'Haste: Cast spells faster and adds extra ticks to hots. 871 (461 for goblins) haste with AS is the aiming point. If you choose to go with EM or EotE, 2017 (1576 for goblins) is a good aiming point. The only regen Haste scales with is TC, and it scales very poorly with that. Haste value is decreased between soft caps, making this the weakest stat in both 10 and 25 mans.'

    which is different again.
    I'm specced into Ancestral Swiftness and my character sheet shows 3k haste before I start reforging.

  11. #131
    The Patient Madhoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squadou View Post
    Your choice, il you want full gem for spirit without managing your mana, do it. Or you can manage your mana, heal more because you gem for sockets bonus with mastery/crit and own meters.
    This is not true or better say a generalization that doesn't fit here. Of course one needs to manage ones mana, but that is something that should be mandatory and therefore has nothing to do with gearing for spirit or not. If you don't have enough mana and you can get more spirit by gemming/reforging, do it. Gearing for throughput stats won't help you in this case.

    Edit: Furthermore your post implies that gearing for spirit is a necessity that only comes from being a bad player (meaning bad mana management), which seems a bit trollish to me. There are plenty of other reasons that can create the need of more mana that do not come from the player itself. For example having an undergeared raid, having a suboptimal groupsetup, etc.
    Last edited by Madhoof; 2012-10-09 at 12:28 PM.
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by squadou View Post
    Your choice, il you want full gem for spirit without managing your mana, do it. Or you can manage your mana, heal more because you gem for sockets bonus with mastery/crit and own meters.
    If you wish to post against the guide plz do show some sort of evidence such as logs and your armory. Stating something as an opinion does not give it a thumbs up lets do that status.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    If you wish to post against the guide plz do show some sort of evidence such as logs and your armory. Stating something as an opinion does not give it a thumbs up lets do that status.
    i quoted one comment, not the guide

    He asked if gemming ALL sockets with spirit was good, ignoring bonus socket and other stats. My answer is that i think for that question.

  14. #134
    Field Marshal BigNeptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squadou View Post
    i quoted one comment, not the guide

    He asked if gemming ALL sockets with spirit was good, ignoring bonus socket and other stats. My answer is that i think for that question.
    Plenty of the current socket bonuses are worth ignoring, especially +60 Intellect.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by squadou View Post
    i quoted one comment, not the guide

    He asked if gemming ALL sockets with spirit was good, ignoring bonus socket and other stats. My answer is that i think for that question.
    And what you quoted is still something that is stated in the guide that you might need to do. And yet once again you give no logs or armory to show your finding and leave us with nothing but an opinion with very little basis. PLz if you think something is better do tell do give proof or otherwise dont bother posting.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by BigNeptune View Post
    Plenty of the current socket bonuses are worth ignoring, especially +60 Intellect.
    I am at work and i got pvp/elelm stuff on me, so link my armory will be useless :
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4jfswm67qavcqect/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cexguwuszqz5tynp/

    These logs don't show skill, that just show that i am not OOM with 5k spirit ( + 1 trinket spirit use at this time ) and still heal for a rly good amount of heal for the entire fight.

    For the 60 int bonus :
    320 spirit or 140 intel + 160 spirit. So it's 140 intel vs 160 spirit. I still chose 140 intel.

    I still think we need to manage our mana instead stacking spirit ( at least in 10 man raid ).

    Sorry if i am a "Troll" :'(

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Table View Post
    Only fight where WS should be glyphed for sure is Stone Guard. On Feng/Elagon it is about neutral and not worth a glyph spot. Spirit Kings it is a slight mana gain, still not really worth a glyph spot. On Gara'jal/Will glyphing WS results in a mana loss compared to unglyphed.

    Overall, most of these vary so you should look at your own logs and determine if it is worth it.
    I think on Stone Guard WS should only be glyphed if you have Jade up (which in 25man would be always).

  18. #138
    Field Marshal BigNeptune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squadou View Post
    I am at work and i got pvp/elelm stuff on me, so link my armory will be useless :
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4jfswm67qavcqect/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-cexguwuszqz5tynp/

    These logs don't show skill, that just show that i am not OOM with 5k spirit ( + 1 trinket spirit use at this time ) and still heal for a rly good amount of heal for the entire fight.

    For the 60 int bonus :
    320 spirit or 140 intel + 160 spirit. So it's 140 intel vs 160 spirit. I still chose 140 intel.

    I still think we need to manage our mana instead stacking spirit ( at least in 10 man raid ).

    Sorry if i am a "Troll" :'(
    But intellect just translates to overhealing with far too much of it, I'm not saying you're a troll, you can play however you want too. As far as Heroics go tonight and how Elegon and some of the other fights panned out last week, I personally want as much regen as I can get for both myself and my fellow healers in 10man. I am sitting at 9k Spirit with a fair amount of secondary stats, even with 15k+ Combat Regen there are still some mana issues if the fight doesn't go perfectly. Also you are three healing all of these fights, whereas we two healed everything. I doubt you need as much regeneration with some support like that, still I would be careful. You will encounter Mana Issues more than likely with such a low amount of spirit.

    Also:

    @80%
    0.182% Increased Healing from 200 Mastery
    @50%
    0.4% Increased Healing from 200 Mastery
    @20%
    0.572% Increased Healing from 200 Mastery

    0.418% Increased Healing from 200 Haste (12.51%)
    0.428% Increased Healing from 200 Haste (9.98%)

    0.404% Increased Healing (single-target) from 200 Crit
    0.278% Increased Healing (non single-target) from 200 Crit

    0.33096% Increased (Single-Target) Healing from 100 Int
    0.31604% Increased (non Single-Target) Healing from 100 Int
    Mathematically if you want to not have as much spirit you would increase your HPS by putting Jades in your sockets as opposed to gemming for Intellect.
    Last edited by BigNeptune; 2012-10-09 at 01:30 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Amerenth View Post
    oh thx, i had completely forgotten that i could just not take AS to cut down on my haste. i also reforged out of all of my haste like you said but i still ended up over 2300 . i wish there wasnt so much high amounts of haste everywhere.

    also, i saw you tell someone else to socket 320 spirits in everything. do you miss all socket bonuses or are there some you go for?

    this is my page for reference:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...renth/advanced
    Skip all socket bonuses except big ones where you do no lost much spirit but gain a large amount of Int/Crit/Mastery. For example:

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=85826
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=90412


    Quote Originally Posted by stephenc87 View Post
    Sorry, where does the 782 come from? Can't see it in the goblin table anywhere.

    I can see this part in the guide:

    'Haste: Cast spells faster and adds extra ticks to hots. 871 (461 for goblins) haste with AS is the aiming point. If you choose to go with EM or EotE, 2017 (1576 for goblins) is a good aiming point. The only regen Haste scales with is TC, and it scales very poorly with that. Haste value is decreased between soft caps, making this the weakest stat in both 10 and 25 mans.'

    which is different again.
    I'm specced into Ancestral Swiftness and my character sheet shows 3k haste before I start reforging.
    Sorry for the confusion. Those were the old haste caps before the correction to HST and HTT scaling. 461 is the new haste cap for Goblins.

    Quote Originally Posted by marukale View Post
    I think on Stone Guard WS should only be glyphed if you have Jade up (which in 25man would be always).
    This makes sense, but I have only done it on 25 Man so I am not sure. In my kill, WS procced 42 times in 7:12. That is a gain of over 30k mana.
    Last edited by Table; 2012-10-09 at 06:32 PM.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigNeptune View Post
    But intellect just translates to overhealing with far too much of it,
    You can also start using HW instead of GHW and not overheal, and when the big hits come (elegon burn for example) you get there almost full mana, end with 10% and pump bigger heals that wont let the raid die out during the dmg

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