Bioware co-founder steps down as The Old Repulic studio manager

[namelessone]

I hate to say it, but more and more it looks like WoW killed off the MMO market.

We have other viable MMO's out there, Rift comes to mind right away, but as long as WoW is ruling the MMO world, I highy doubt we as gamers will see the game have real competition. And that is sad, we need good competition to keep Blizz from getting lax with WoW.

Stupid companies who release uninspired games that copy WoW in every aspect killed the MMO market. We need good competition, but releasing an identical game with different graphics is not. Sorry, did I say "identical"? I meant "identical to what WoW was 5 years ago".

[SirRobin]

Stupid companies who release uninspired games that copy WoW in every aspect killed the MMO market. We need good competition, but releasing an identical game with different graphics is not. Sorry, did I say "identical"? I meant "identical to what WoW was 5 years ago".

Indeed, wasn't it on Damion Schubert's site that he had the phrase "Innovation Assumes A Certain Amount Of Not Suck." I can't really blame them though for trying to out-WoW, WoW. Its what the ones paying for these developers making these games want, and since they are the ones making it possible for them to get paid? So I figure even Titan doesn't have a chance and the next WoW will come from some indie somewhere like Minecraft did.

[Clymene]

You don't hold the same job for more than 5 years? Just because it's "one game"/"project" doesn't mean you can say MOST jobs are nothing more than the same "thing" each and every day.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 11:39 AM ----------



Just because I am bringing in literally more money and I am expending does not mean my product isn't "failing".

If my expenses are $250k/year and I'm bringing in $255k/year opposed to $500k+ the previous year, does that mean I'm not "failing"?

If you don't think so, you definitely have never owned a business.

Obviously going by your implied "profitable game" comment, you are under the impression that as long as something is making more money (doesn't matter if it's $1 or $1m) than it is spending it's not a "failure" and is "succeeding". Sure, at an absolutely basic level you are right, in the overall picture, you are wrong.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 11:43 AM ----------



Actually the guy you are quoting is pretty spot-on. Unless you some-how have some sort of inside information and you get a generous package to keep silent and never discuss why you (as a high-ranking team member) think a product failed, you do "step down"

One of two things happened here. He stepped-down because he didn't like how the game was going F2P and/or didn't like how they didn't listen to changes he thought would make the game better or, they didn't like how the game flopped (not turning this into a ToR sucks thread, simple facts hype vs success) and are replacing him with the hopes someone new can come in and turn the game around.

By the use of "failing," I think you failing to meet expectations, in particular, the expectations of investors. I don't think anyone would disagree that. Most posters are referring to if its profitable. Most likely it is, made its development costs back (we can never really know this), and is not failing in that regard.

In regards to your response to Arlee, are you an executive at EA, family or personally friend of Dr. Zeschuk? If not all you can do is speculate why he changed positions. People change jobs all the time for all sorts of reason, like wanting to live in his native country(this is speculation, I have no idea his reasons, I don't know him personally).

[Venaliter]

The game wasn't bad. It needed some work for sure, but it doesn't deserve to go out like this. I don't know why people left en masse when the game was barely a few months old. That was when it was most fun, in my opinion.

It wasn't bad, it just lacked good developers. The End game was a joke. Whether people want to admit it or not, a BIG part of the raiding scene is competition, with yourself (as you gear and your DPS improves) and the other members of your team. No DPS meter was like them shooting themselves in the femoral artery.

The lack of macros (and add-ons in general) was frustrating. The difficulty of assembling a group for a "flashpoint" was particularly horrendous.

And finally 1.2 came out, in which they nerfed all the classes, except the class that really needed it. They buffed that one. With PvP balance out the window, that was it. There was nothing left to do.

[Deleted]

It wasn't bad, it just lacked good developers. The End game was a joke. Whether people want to admit it or not, a BIG part of the raiding scene is competition, with yourself (as you gear and your DPS improves) and the other members of your team. No DPS meter was like them shooting themselves in the femoral artery.

The lack of macros (and add-ons in general) was frustrating. The difficulty of assembling a group for a "flashpoint" was particularly horrendous.

And finally 1.2 came out, in which they nerfed all the classes, except the class that really needed it. They buffed that one. With PvP balance out the window, that was it. There was nothing left to do.

No no, you see according to the zealots you can't have a dungeon finder, because *gasp* WoW has one of those thus it would heresy (nevermind the copied skills or talent trees) to have it. And why would anyone want an automated grouping function anyway? I mean all it does is ridding us of having to spam channels or whispering a list of people, and ridding us of that would destroy community in the entire game (which seem to be a commonly used argument) as that "social interaction" is so great.

Oh and don't get me started on DPS meters, Billy-I do300DPS-bob would actually be seen piggybacking on the rest of groups efforts, we have no right to expect him to carry his own weight in any instance and he is to be protected from horrible people that place such unrealistic expectations. Nevermind how it could help people improve their own performance as well, no that would make them even better than little Billy, and he needs to be protected by filthy elitists that want to carry their own weight and refuse to carry others, him and every other sub-par player leeching on others efforts.

[Redblade]

No no, you see according to the zealots you can't have a dungeon finder, because *gasp* WoW has one of those thus it would heresy (nevermind the copied skills or talent trees) to have it. And why would anyone want an automated grouping function anyway? I mean all it does is ridding us of having to spam channels or whispering a list of people, and ridding us of that would destroy community in the entire game (which seem to be a commonly used argument) as that "social interaction" is so great.

Because spending months after launch to make that and transfers worked out so well for them...right? A minor convenience at best which already had a solution in place with global channels, well worth the developer time while people where quitting en mass due to dead or dying servers.

Also quite funny how you defend DPS meters with the argument that people should pull their weight yet promote a system that in it's core is the best tool for the developer to force better players to carry bad once to retain more subs.

[Deleted]

Because spending months after launch to make that and transfers worked out so well for them...right? A minor convenience at best which already had a solution in place with global channels, well worth the developer time while people where quitting en mass due to dead or dying servers.

Also quite funny how you defend DPS meters with the argument that people should pull their weight yet promote a system that in it's core is the best tool for the developer to force better players to carry bad once to retain more subs.

Because spending 6 years making an MMO that was outdated at release worked out so well for them right? And it's quite funny that you think a dungeon finder somehow force better players to carry bad ones and show that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Redblade]

And it's quite funny that you think a dungeon finder somehow force better players to carry bad ones and show that you don't know what you're talking about.

Ohh it doesn't? So extra rewards for queuing random isn't an incentive that pushes players that want to maximize their characters to carry lesser geared or lesser skilled players, while I have not tried TOR's LFD WoW's works in such a way, not only does it work that way it penalizes you if you try to get out of it.

But hey what do I know.

[ihyln]

This is a textbook example of spreading misinformation. Mark Jacobs left in 2009 when Bioware and Mythic merged. Uhh hello, this is common practice when companies merge. Multiple leaders are usually a disaster and a bloat on the payroll. Not to mention that it is a perfect time to take a severance package and found your own company to do what you want. (http://citystateentertainment.com/)

Here's an actual quote from the real person we call Mark Jacobs: "They made a decision on a direction they wanted to go and obviously, as we put out in our joint statement, that wasn't a direction that had a role for me, or at least the role that I wanted. It really is as simple as that."

Spin it how you want, he was clearly unhappy with the coming merge. Please stop spouting false truths, thank you.

Mythic was bought out by EA prior to Warhammer Online's release. Mythic and Bioware merged in 2009 when it was apparent that WHO was tanking and MJ got canned as a result. They just said it in a nice way. The guy's ideas are an anathema to the industry so I hope he doesn't come back to make "daoc2" and enrage us again with a pile of crap. Also some of the WHO PVP devs ended up working on the sinking ship known as SWOTR. Had I known this fact prior to purchasing swotr I would not have even bought it.

[Cempa]

I can't help but wounder how lazy WoW has made gamers, at least my self as a gamer. I pretty much demand from any MMO from day one the same leveling experience I get from WoW.

While I will go through the entire game on my very first toon playing 4hours or more per day, after that I want to stand in my capital city near AH and get guaranteed blue gear from each group finder from level 15 all the way to max level. I demand instant PvP from level 10 and want mounts..many mounts lol

[Sinistro-FSK]

"And Bioware? Don’t make me laugh. They’ve spent more money making the Old Republic than James Cameron spent on Avatar. Shit you not. More than $ 300 million! Can you believe that?

And you know what they’re most proud of? This is the kicker. They are most proud of the sound. No seriously. Something like a 20Gig installation, and most of it is voiceover work. That’s the best they have. The rest of the game is a joke. EA knows it and so does George Lucas,they’re panicking , and so most of Mythic has already been cannibalized to work in Austin on it because they can’t keep pushing back launch.

Old Republic will be one of the greatest failures in the history of MMOs from EA. Probably at the level of the Sims Online. We all know it too ……"

EA Louse, 2010 (http://web.archive.org/web/201010280...wordpress.com/)

Greg was responsible for taking the wrong direction(s) since the beginning.

Please, don't get me wrong, he is by far responsible for some of the best games I ever played in my life. But making an MMO is quite different from making a single-player RPG.

Honestly, I believe EA's influence had a worst impact on SWTOR than Greg, by pushing too hard to make it a "WoW with lasers". But when shit hits the fan and the game fails to deliver, you need someone to blame/punish.

So no, I don't buy it Greg is "on vacation". He failed to truly innovate, was in perfect position to take all the blame, and the timing is just the icing on the truth cake.

I just hope he goes back to making the RPGs I love to play.

[Deleted]

Because spending months after launch to make that and transfers worked out so well for them...right? A minor convenience at best which already had a solution in place with global channels, well worth the developer time while people where quitting en mass due to dead or dying servers.

Also quite funny how you defend DPS meters with the argument that people should pull their weight yet promote a system that in it's core is the best tool for the developer to force better players to carry bad once to retain more subs.

hahaha, "already a solution in place" is your wording for an in every way inferior system?And their incompetence of not being able to conducts transfers is just another of many many problems.

As for bad players, whopsie, kick and get another. As for your question, what you know couldn't even fill an eggcup apparently, bioware might've listened to you considering what a catastrophic failure their game is.

[Redblade]

hahaha, "already a solution in place" is your wording for an in every way inferior system?And their incompetence of not being able to conducts transfers is just another of many many problems.

As for bad players, whopsie, kick and get another. As for your question, what you know couldn't even fill an eggcup apparently, bioware might've listened to you considering what a catastrophic failure their game is.

Ok champ, keep on living in your own little world where you're the man!

[12davargo]

Kinda sucks though, personally I really dislike EA and absolutely blame things like the Mass Effect ending on EA even if they didn't cause it...they still owned bioware at the time it came out. Bioware USED to be my favorite game making company now they just use the good bioware name and make either average or shitty video games...

[SirRobin]

EA Louse, 2010 (http://web.archive.org/web/201010280...wordpress.com/)

Oh man, I remember the storm that stirred up. You know the funniest part? We still don't have a dollar amount and probably never will. Meh... The GDC discussion about TOR's development made it pretty obvious that BioWare was in way over their heads pretty much from the start. If you hadn't picked up on the clues earlier that is. Still though, its not a bad game. It just could, probably should, have been so much more.

[Grym]

It is a shame they just give up on it though.

Ever seen FF14? It was HORRID at launch, free to pay pretty much instantly. They got a new project manager to take over the project, changing and adjusting things as much as they could, now they even re-making the game and re-launching in Nov as version 2.0, and it actually looks really good.

TOR could have done something along the same line, "OK we messed up the launch, let's see what are the problems, and let's make it work", too bad it looks like EA just went "it didn't deliver, axe it, go free to pay, don't want to hear from you again".

TOR had so much potential, and it could have gave WoW a good run for it's money if the cards were played right.

[Shadylol]

It is a shame they just give up on it though.

Ever seen FF14? It was HORRID at launch, free to pay pretty much instantly. They got a new project manager to take over the project, changing and adjusting things as much as they could, now they even re-making the game and re-launching in Nov as version 2.0, and it actually looks really good.

TOR could have done something along the same line, "OK we messed up the launch, let's see what are the problems, and let's make it work", too bad it looks like EA just went "it didn't deliver, axe it, go free to pay, don't want to hear from you again".

TOR had so much potential, and it could have gave WoW a good run for it's money if the cards were played right.

It's such a shame. Of all the potential "WoW killers" over the years, SWTOR was the only one that ever really stood a chance

I never had any delusions that SWTOR would "kill" World of Warcraft, but I hoped they could at least co-exist. Unfortunately, SWTOR failed to meet expectations, from day 1

[SirRobin]

TOR really did have just about everything you could hope for, going for it, during development. Oh well, live and learn, hopefully.