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  1. #1

    Question Fists of Fury - Why is Blizzard trying to force us to use it? [WW]

    So one of the main points of the Wind Walker spec is our mobility, we're one of the more mobile specs in the game, if not the most mobile, all of our abilities can be used while moving, even our channeled AOE spell Spinning Crane Kick.. with the exception of one spell, the monstrosity known as Fists of Fury, it does abysmal damage even after buffs, it eats up THREE CHI, the most of any monk ability, you're forced to stay stationary while using it, and it has an absurdly long cooldown, overall it's utterly worthless, especially for single target DPS.

    And yet, for some completely nonsensical and and unknown reason Blizzard is trying to force it into our already functioning single DPS rotation, even Ghostcrawler himself admitted that using the ability is challenging: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...?page=195#3882

    I seriously want to know, why are they trying to force this crap on us?

    Possible fix:
    -Remove the stun?
    -Decrease cost to 2 chi
    -Make it only deal damage to your target
    -Double or even triple the damage it does
    Last edited by Courierrawr; 2012-08-10 at 06:46 PM.

  2. #2
    The damage it does right now is just fine..
    but i agree that it sucks in some way, in my opinion they should make a glyph that removes the stun but adds the ability to use it while moving..

    The reason it should be an Glyph and not an overall change is that it make it useable both for pvp'ers and pvp'ers..
    Last edited by Almex; 2012-08-10 at 07:27 PM. Reason: forgot to add the reason :)

  3. #3
    The Patient Mistfit's Avatar
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    FoF for me seems like a skill that I use when my buffs and debuffs are up and I am low energy. Channeled so I won't be doing anything else. One idea to change it that I saw was to have the Chi cost scale the longer it is active, so if I hit it and immediately break the channel it is only 1, if it goes full duration it is 3.

    Needless to say, if blizz wants to shove a square peg in a round rotation, they will do it by making the damage so attractive that we will have to weave it in to optimize DPS

  4. #4
    I personally like the idea of having it added into single target rotation...as long as it is worth it. It isn't too bad to have it a channel ability because that adds a slight skill cap (knowing the right time to use it and all). I just think the damage needs to be increased a bit so that it does the most damage out of our abilities on single target.

  5. #5
    The cost issues are a pain, but a 4 second channeled melee ability is just a deal breaker for me. I want to play a high mobility melee. I'll just be off-spec Mistweaver, I guess.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Snarfysnarf's Avatar
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    god forbid we have a rotation with more than 3 buttons

  7. #7
    FoF has many problems currently:

    1) Channel that "roots" us, making it unusable in most of the situations.
    2) Cleave, meaning we can't use it when there are CCd targets nearby, or targets that we don't want aggro from (bloods on Spine of Deathwing). On top of my head, I can't remember any other class that has such ability that is "forced" into their single target rotation.
    3) The DPS increase by using it is so small that if it disturbs our rotation even a little, it's not worth using at all. Kind of similar to Rupture for Combat Rogues on this regard, using Rupture on a single target is very small DPS increase, but using it while cleaving with BF or using it when nobody gives bleed debuff is DPS loss, so to simplify things, most players just don't use it at all. I imagine the same will happen to FoF with current numbers: most people just won't use it because it complicates our rotation without giving anything substantial in return.

  8. #8
    FoF will most likely be an ability, if dps increase is like rupture for comb rogues, that is shunned for movement heavy fights, used for cleave fights and trash, and depending on overall dps lost/gain using it single target in a fight like Patchwork or Ultraxion will or will not be used.

    Doesn't seem like a deal breaker for WW for me. Agility class with swords? Yes please.
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  9. #9
    I'm all for a class with more buttons. I'm just not a big fan of the channeled root for a melee.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Snarfysnarf View Post
    god forbid we have a rotation with more than 3 buttons
    I'm all for adding complexity to the classes, but doing something like this, which fucks over one of the spec's main aspects is just dumb.

  11. #11
    Yay for a more complex (and also interesting) rotation, but as it has been said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    I'm all for a class with more buttons. I'm just not a big fan of the channeled root for a melee.

  12. #12
    We run into a danger if they make it too good. If it is in a place like Rupture for combat (you don't always use it except for optimal situations) then you can drop it during heavy movement and not lose out on too much damage. However, if they make it central to the rotation, WW Monks will have a real tough time keeping up during heavy movement.

  13. #13
    Remove the stun?wtf.that is the ww monks most stun ability

  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Ujio's Avatar
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    Its actually not a bad skill when used at low energy - kinda the same as killing spree, go all out in your rotation and then when your low energy pop it while you pool back some resource. At least this is how i used it when i was testing LFR on beta earlier.
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  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    2) Cleave, meaning we can't use it when there are CCd targets nearby, or targets that we don't want aggro from (bloods on Spine of Deathwing). On top of my head, I can't remember any other class that has such ability that is "forced" into their single target rotation.
    Frost DK's have Rime procs for free Howling Blasts (which are an AoE) and Unholy DK's use DnD as part of their single-target (which also has a high threat component tacked onto it) alongside their ghoul's melee turning into a cleave when it's supercharged. Don't Fury warriors also use WW? DPS warriors all used to use WW, at any rate. But anyways, that's a moot point.


    At this rate, it appears that FoF is intended to be good for single target damage for one reason - rewarding better play. The damage increase is small enough that people who don't or can't use it effectively will still do good DPS, but the monk players who are able to properly use FoF get to do a bit more. It's sort of a like a high-risk-high-reward move, in that the only way for it to be a DPS increase is if you hit the target with every single tick of FoF, so just blindly hitting it on cooldown without taking into account situational awareness and boss/raid movements could well just end up as wasted Chi.
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  16. #16
    because they like the spell.

    showering the enemy with fast punches sounds like something a monk would do frequently. the animation is also cool and the devs probably spent quite some time making it.

    gameplay must fit itself into the class ideology, not the contrary.

    they may fix some of the skill's drawbacks, but don't expect them to remove it from your rotation lol
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  17. #17
    the 2 T14, instead of "reduce the CD by 5second", could be something like " make you channel FoF twice faster, dealing damage each 0.5s instead of 1sec"

    this would allow Fof to be not too messy and complicated to use

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Drifted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    FoF has many problems currently:
    2) Cleave, meaning we can't use it when there are CCd targets nearby, or targets that we don't want aggro from (bloods on Spine of Deathwing). On top of my head, I can't remember any other class that has such ability that is "forced" into their single target rotation.
    I can. Frost DKs. It was (and prolly still is when CC is needed) major pain in the ass having to use Icy Touch instead of Howling Blast. If that is what you even meant.

    Personally I don't mind FoF at all. And I find it amusing people think WW being some mobility god spec. Warriors got charge. Rogues got Sprint and Burst of Speed/Shadowstep. Ferals have Dash and Charge. Any class that is worgen got extra movement CD. WW is hardly any special. Of course I would gladly take a glyph for PvE that removes the stun but allows you to move while channeling. But I can cope with FoF in it's current incarnation as long as damage something worthwhile.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sakk View Post
    the 2 T14, instead of "reduce the CD by 5second", could be something like " make you channel FoF twice faster, dealing damage each 0.5s instead of 1sec"

    this would allow Fof to be not too messy and complicated to use
    Thing is many people including myself hate blanket fixes for issues we have.
    It's like the melee damage buff in DS. Oh, well melee isn't doing as good as it should. So a 10% ap buff if you're melee. The example I gave wasn't the best, but anything through set bonuses that makes a class feel more like it should makes absolutely no sense.

  20. #20
    I think it's to add a distinguishing, and negative, point to the monk rotation. I believe it's there to make it such that you have to plan for the brief stationary times to do peak damage. I mean, combat has to worry about the right time for a killing spree (aka, one that won't kill you), and rogues have combo points on the target. To me, this just looks like that level of thing.

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