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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk Mukki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuckerpooks View Post
    I think the big hype for many of us that are not into the competitive PvP scene is the entire mentality of the game. Unlike being pitted against another faction, it is a game built around supporting each other. This is a game that encouraging helping others and working together and that is monumental for a major MMO that is still competitive.

    The PvE is one that includes your closest friends for a dungeon... and EVERYONE when it comes to a huge guy! The game doesn't exclude anybody and that makes it very fun.
    Someone never played FF11 in its prime. Cooperation in a large-scale MMO is hardly new.

  2. #42
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukki View Post
    Someone never played FF11 in its prime. Cooperation in a large-scale MMO is hardly new.
    Couldn't stand FFXI. Don't fully remember what it was that turned me off of it, but I just couldn't stand it. Certainly felt way more grindy than anything else I'd played, with constant encouragement to just go out and kill stuff for no reason other than exp.

    Which was disappointing, because I loved the concept of the job system.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    What do you mean?
    Secondary systems such as UI functions, cosmetic options, usability and so on are fairly clumsy or highly limited currently. Such as lack of on-the-fly UI modification, save/export settings, save/reload builds, etc. The clunky method of NPC and target interaction which has no hierarchical prioritization. Inability to adjust the ability queue delay, etc.

    Historically, Anet are not very robust in their secondary systems.

    Incorrect. The game has an abundance of both casual and hardcore content.
    Sorry, but nope. The intent of the Guild Wars franchise has always been pick-up & play style of game. Nightfall isn't anymore a hardcore game because you ground Sunspear rep or what have you.

    There is nothing divergent in GW2. In fact they have said so at the last gamescom and it is evidence by every single core and supporting system in the game.

    A casual play experience part of the core design philosophy of the game. No grinding is required for any sort of actual player progression. Ever.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2012-08-11 at 09:37 PM.

  4. #44
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Pretty sure acquiring legendary weapons will require a hardcore mindset and grinding. Seeing as the only kind of progression is aesthetic appeal and personal player skill... you could say that, in this case, a form of player progression requires grinding.

    It simply depends on how you define progression.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  5. #45
    Legendary weapons are not really hardcore either. There is no timetable or need for their acquisition. So if you got a rainbow firing longbow over 3 weeks, 3 months or 3 years it's all the same. No greater or worse than ye old Torment items.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Couldn't stand FFXI. Don't fully remember what it was that turned me off of it, but I just couldn't stand it. Certainly felt way more grindy than anything else I'd played, with constant encouragement to just go out and kill stuff for no reason other than exp.

    Which was disappointing, because I loved the concept of the job system.
    I know that taking DAYS to get from level 11 to level 12 not to mention the time it took to get to 11 is what really got to me. That and friends who played telling me it only gets worse.

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    A casual play experience part of the core design philosophy of the game. No grinding is required for any sort of actual player progression. Ever.
    Ah, so when you say "casual" you mean "no grind". I think most people equate "casual" with "faceroll" and we know that is simply not the case with this game.

    Also, in reference to grind....the legendary weapons don't sound like something you just "pick up and play". From what the developers have said, it's going to take a significant time & effort investment in obtaining these. How much of that will feel like a grind we have no idea.
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  8. #48
    I liked FF11 quite a bit. It was a true and classic MMO, IMO. Was just having a conversation today about FF11 and actual balls-to-wall real grind MMOs. Huh. Cosmic.

  9. #49
    Warchief Kallanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    Ah, so when you say "casual" you mean "no grind". I think most people equate "casual" with "faceroll" and we know that is simply not the case with this game.

    Also, in reference to grind....the legendary weapons don't sound like something you just "pick up and play". From what the developers have said, it's going to take a significant time & effort investment in obtaining these. How much of that will feel like a grind we have no idea.
    I think by casual, Fencers means casual. As in: 'Occurring at irregular or infrequent intervals; occasional:'. Not as in... what for some reason people seem to believe casual means (Faceroll).

    I do apologise but... yeah casual does not mean easy and I wish people would stop saying that.

  10. #50
    Bloodsail Admiral Haggerty's Avatar
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    The realist part of me says "always be moderate and realistic in your expectations".

    The romantic part of me says "always throw yourself deeply in to love...it's fun, exciting and if it all comes crashing down, there's always something else to throw yourself deeply in to tomorrow".

    Tonight, I say "treat it is a game that looks like it could be fun...be excited, but proportionally so".

    I've played all of the betas etc and am happily excited for launch, in a "finally opening the present that's been under the tree for a month" kinda way...and also generally looking forward to having fun with a decent game. The excitement will wear off, as it should...but I'll be left with a solid, fun game that I'll spend many happy hours with.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    Ah, so when you say "casual" you mean "no grind". I think most people equate "casual" with "faceroll" and we know that is simply not the case with this game.
    Nah. That's a dumb/forum troll assumption. The casual/hardcore chest thumping thing.

    Casual as in pick-up & play. GW1 and 2 are not particularly easy games for most people. So I don't think that assumption is really useful.

    The only actual differential in hardcore and casual play is the amount of required gerbil wheels game A or B force you into. Time, specifically, required time, is the factor.

    Not difficulty.

    Also, in reference to grind....the legendary weapons don't sound like something you just "pick up and play". From what the developers have said, it's going to take a significant time & effort investment in obtaining these. How much of that will feel like a grind we have no idea.
    Again, it's not forced. It took a fair bit to get exotic arms in GW1. But there was no real compulsion and the game did not require or enforce it as such. No actual grind. Or rather, required grind. A big sticky point for the franchise.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Secondary systems such as UI functions, cosmetic options, usability and so on are fairly clumsy or highly limited currently. Such as lack of on-the-fly UI modification, save/export settings, save/reload builds, etc. The clunky method of NPC and target interaction which has no hierarchical prioritization. Inability to adjust the ability queue delay, etc.

    Historically, Anet are not very robust in their secondary systems.
    I guess i see what you mean. To me it's kind of a non issue. I tend to be a minimalist when it comes to UI and such.

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Nah. That's a dumb/forum troll assumption. The casual/hardcore chest thumping thing.
    I don't think it's a trolling thing, from my experience it really is common useage these days. Heroic content=the most difficult content=hardcore. Whether your old dictionary agrees with it or not, it's what people think nowadays. ;-)
    Morpheus: Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    I don't think it's a trolling thing, from my experience it really is common useage these days. Heroic content=the most difficult content=hardcore. Whether your old dictionary agrees with it or not, it's what people think nowadays. ;-)
    Yeah but then how do you call people that dont play a ton but are actually good ?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    I don't think it's a trolling thing, from my experience it really is common useage these days. Heroic content=the most difficult content=hardcore. Whether your old dictionary agrees with it or not, it's what people think nowadays. ;-)
    Well, that's pretty dumb. And it is a trolly thing. It has no logical basis. Utter bullshit.

    I don't know what your mean by "heroic content=most difficult" though. Do you mean like personal story?

  16. #56
    Warchief Kallanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    Yeah but then how do you call people that dont play a ton but are actually good ?
    That clearly does not exist. Because if it did they'd be called casuals, and the bad players would just be called bad.
    The casual definition of 'bad' annoys me A LOT. It's as if you're bad you cannot be called bad because you might be offended, so we'll call you casual and put you with a bunch of people who actually like/care/don't suck at their games but heh it doesn't matter.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallanna View Post
    That clearly does not exist. Because if it did they'd be called casuals, and the bad players would just be called bad.
    The casual definition of 'bad' annoys me A LOT. It's as if you're bad you cannot be called bad because you might be offended, so we'll call you casual and put you with a bunch of people who actually like/care/don't suck at their games but heh it doesn't matter.
    Lol what was that sarcasm ?
    Obviously a casual player wont be #1, but I always encountered casual players that were actually better than some hardcore players.

    I think how much some rank14 players in WoW actually suck is proof enough of that.

  18. #58
    Warchief Kallanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    Lol what was that sarcasm ?
    Obviously a casual player wont be #1, but I always encountered casual players that were actually better than some hardcore players.

    I think how much some rank14 players in WoW actually suck is proof enough of that.
    Sorry, that was sarcasm!
    I'm pretty casual myself and I don't consider myself bad. Hence this whole 'casual = bad' argument annoys me!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Gisei View Post
    The bulk of my hype came from actually playing the game, so I feel it is mostly legit. It is a very good game, and worth getting excited over, just don't get unrealistic expectations.
    This. x10000000000000000.

  20. #60
    Bloodsail Admiral Haggerty's Avatar
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    Even though I've clocked up a very large number of hours of gaming time over the years...and it's been said that I'm a decently competent healer - I still regard myself as a casual player.

    I get an allergic reaction to anything that seems like a job...I'll play for 48 hours straight - but I won't spend an hour grinding for leather to make new underpants...and I won't commit to being online for 6pm for raid start at 6:30pm - even if I'm on every night for 6 hours...and spend a lot of time at work reading about tactics, play styles etc etc.

    I wanna do fun things...and I wanna do what I wanna do, when I wanna do it...so if that makes me casual, even if I clock up the hours and practice the play...I'm pretty chilled with that.

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