Thread: Field of view

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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    I think people are confusing zoom and FoV because they assume you mean the FoV of your character.

    Imagine the camera is a cameraman. You are the cameraman. If you zoom out the camera, the cameraman is moving back. Zooming in moves him forward. Now imagine if you will, as you are the cameraman, that you are playing a first person game. Does moving back in a first person game increase your field of view? No. Your peripherals remain the same.

    Zooming out does not increase FoV because your peripherals remain the same but the distance from the character increases. Distance from character is not FoV. Field of View is how far your peripherals stretch to the sides. Increasing it often involves stretching the screen vertically to allow more peripheral vision.

    He doesn't want zoom out, he wants to be able to see more to his sides. Zooming out lets you see more to your sides but, relatively, the amount he can see is still the same. It's a bit of a mindfuck, but you have to realise that.

    Edit: Added an image to help people because this took me a while to understand myself.

    LOL, anyway his fix is easy. In my Home theater I have a 12' wide 2.35:1 constant height screen, If I sit at 10' distance from the screen I have to turn head left and right during movies like sitting close at an IMAX theater. You're saying he needs to see on the sides of his head ( lol) well there ya go! Buy a Projector and a 2.35:1 screen and you can be in gaming bliss and watch widescreen movies without black bars!..........Its the goofy GW2 camera that's goofing him up

  2. #42
    The thing you guys dont seem to understand is that FoV and Zooming out are the same thing in a 3rd person game. Look at the image describing FoV, instance 2 whilst showing you the object still puts you further away from the character, hence the zooming out.

    It is completely different in 1st person games because your character is the camera, and moving the camera back lets you see the object and your character stays completely unchanged.

    Edit: Unfortunatly the only way you can increase FoV in a 3rd person game with maxed out zoom, is to buy a wider monitor or get extra screens. Unless you want to see a distorted image like a fish bowl on the sides of your screen, as its physically impossible to add more view to the sides of your screen without it A. becoming distorted or B. having to get a wider monitor.
    Last edited by Jynnx; 2012-08-14 at 12:50 AM.

  3. #43
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynnx View Post
    The thing you guys dont seem to understand is that FoV and Zooming out are the same thing in a 3rd person game. Look at the image describing FoV, instance 2 whilst showing you the object still puts you further away from the character, hence the zooming out.
    Incorrect. Instance 2 is showing that, while you can now see Object 1 while zoomed out, your field of view - That is, the angle at which the camera renders, has not changed. If FoV had increased, you would see Object 1 in Instance 1 and Object 1 + 2 in Instance 2.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    Incorrect. Instance 2 is showing that, while you can now see Object 1 while zoomed out, your field of view - That is, the angle at which the camera renders, has not changed. If FoV had increased, you would see Object 1 in Instance 1 and Object 1 + 2 in Instance 2.
    Okay well i can see that but read my edit, in a 3rd person game you cannot increase the FoV without the image becoming distorted at the sides (almost like looking at it in a fish bowl)

  5. #45
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynnx View Post
    Okay well i can see that but read my edit, in a 3rd person game you cannot increase the FoV without the image becoming distorted at the sides (almost like looking at it in a fish bowl)
    This is a fallacy. You can do this perfectly well on wide screens, but FoV options are largely not included due to rendering requirements (Mainly console games not being able to handle too much on screen)

    On a screen like mine (1280x1024), you'd be correct, my monitor is not intended for first person video games, to increase FoV on my monitor I have to change the game resolution to include black bars at the top and bottom to avoid 'fishbowl' situations.

    However, I feel that pretty much everyone who suffers from FoV sickness has a wide monitor in order to combat this problem without having render stretching. I think that if you don't then you're not doing it right. I am adamant that FoV options on widescreen monitors would not cause peripheral distortion.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    However, I feel that pretty much everyone who suffers from FoV sickness has a wide monitor in order to combat this problem without having render stretching. I think that if you don't then you're not doing it right. I am adamant that FoV options on widescreen monitors would not cause peripheral distortion.
    Well i disagree, hence why it has never been implemented into a 3rd person game, i don't think that i have ever seen a complaint about WoW and needing a FoV slider, the only difference between wow and gw2 is the ability to zoom out further. So if anything gw2 needs the ability to zoom out further, it has nothing to do with FoV as it is irrelavant when it comes to a 3rd person game.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jynnx View Post
    Well i disagree, hence why it has never been implemented into a 3rd person game, i don't think that i have ever seen a complaint about WoW and needing a FoV slider, the only difference between wow and gw2 is the ability to zoom out further. So if anything gw2 needs the ability to zoom out further, it has nothing to do with FoV as it is irrelavant when it comes to a 3rd person game.
    Quote Originally Posted by ohshift View Post
    Is there any way to change the field of view ingame?
    how?
    This was posted on the MMO champion forums as a complaint for World of Warcraft.

    There is even an addon dedicated to increasing third person FoV in WoW.

    Edit: You clearly don't understand why FoV is important in third person games. Imagine that you're playing a first person game and you're following someone. You're the camera, you're not the person. Your view is not your character's, it's the camera's, and how is it any different when the camera has low FoV to when a first person game has low FoV?

    It isn't different! It's the same. Zooming out merely makes the cameraman move back.
    Last edited by Hjalmtyr; 2012-08-14 at 01:15 AM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynnx View Post
    The thing you guys dont seem to understand is that FoV and Zooming out are the same thing in a 3rd person game. Look at the image describing FoV, instance 2 whilst showing you the object still puts you further away from the character, hence the zooming out.

    It is completely different in 1st person games because your character is the camera, and moving the camera back lets you see the object and your character stays completely unchanged.

    Edit: Unfortunatly the only way you can increase FoV in a 3rd person game with maxed out zoom, is to buy a wider monitor or get extra screens. Unless you want to see a distorted image like a fish bowl on the sides of your screen, as its physically impossible to add more view to the sides of your screen without it A. becoming distorted or B. having to get a wider monitor.
    I've updated the first post with a few very informative videos. If anyone don't understand what fov is and what it isn't after seeing those, and also why it is affecting many people in a negative way then I don't know how to make it any more clear.

    The problem in guild Wars 2 atm is that the camera isn't too close as so many seem to think, it's that your mind reads the image as tunnel vision cause your field of view is restricted when you are in full screen.
    Change to windowed mode and stretch the image and you can see the FoV will change. So the game itself already has an FOV built in. That's also easy to see from the official setup with 3 monitors. If it wasn't there your character and everything else would look like fat short midgets.

    So the request is for a manual slider in options to change our fov manually as we require to be able to play the game in full screen without feeling like we need to throw up every few minutes of game play. Why is that so hard to understand?

    Watch those videos and then hopefully understand the issue at hand here.

    PS: looking at other MMOs atm, like the secret world, where they get the camera angle, and the FoV nearly perfect and it becomes even more of a shame that Guild Wars 2 fails to include a slider for something that is already built into the game.
    Ps2: by camera angle I'm talking about the fact that the camera angle in gw2 includes too much ground relative to where your character is in the screen. When you character becomes the center part of your screen it makes for an uncomfortable view of the game.
    Not only a comfort issue, but also a game play issue. With all the visual beauty in gw2,it's a shame the camera insists you see 50 percent ground instead of a more comfy 25. So your camera fixed position relative to your character need to drop down a bit as well as increase fov in widescreen full screen setups.

    As close to launch as we are now, I'm worried this won't be handled in any way, and and will make the game near unplayable. Is that something Arenanet wants to happen on launch day? I doubt it so I really hope this gets adressed soon.
    Last edited by Nexrex; 2012-08-14 at 09:36 AM.

  9. #49
    Pretty sure that fov sliders are more for FPS than mmorpg. I mean you can easily zoom out, and the zoom distance has been increased over former events.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by blizzy1 View Post
    Pretty sure that fov sliders are more for FPS than mmorpg. I mean you can easily zoom out, and the zoom distance has been increased over former events.
    Yes it is more common in fps games. That doesn't mean it's not an issue in other games. Kingdoms of amalur for instance. Had to use widescreen fixer to even play that for more than 5 min. Skyrim, had to use console commands to change the FoV or the game was unplayable for me. It's very common in console to pc ports, and it's an option that should be included in a pc exclusive title like gw2.

  11. #51
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexrex View Post
    Yes it is more common in fps games. That doesn't mean it's not an issue in other games. Kingdoms of amalur for instance. Had to use widescreen fixer to even play that for more than 5 min. Skyrim, had to use console commands to change the FoV or the game was unplayable for me. It's very common in console to pc ports, and it's an option that should be included in a pc exclusive title like gw2.
    Pay no attention to him, he was just restating what others have said (correctly or incorrectly) in different threads so he could post recruitment links.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigain View Post
    Pay no attention to him, he was just restating what others have said (correctly or incorrectly) in different threads so he could post recruitment links.
    Well I'm on my android so don't see any recruitment. Just had to reply since this is an issue I burn very strongly for.

  13. #53
    Saw the FoV video , but anything more than killing enemies , sound like rocket science to me :P
    In the last part at the end of the video , <<he said that increasing FoV gives more informations to the player>> .
    Will it somehow effect the servers (stress them , even more - demending more information to be sent from the server to ur pc***) and uterly lags even more areas like WvWvW where massive of players clash or DEs in Orr (guessing mot ppl will be there) ?

    Edit: For example in Wintergasp in WoW they have a limit of 200 players , or would lag like hell, like in in the start of Wotlk
    Last edited by Plzbegentle; 2012-08-14 at 10:56 AM.
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jynnx View Post
    Well i disagree, hence why it has never been implemented into a 3rd person game, i don't think that i have ever seen a complaint about WoW and needing a FoV slider, the only difference between wow and gw2 is the ability to zoom out further. So if anything gw2 needs the ability to zoom out further, it has nothing to do with FoV as it is irrelavant when it comes to a 3rd person game.
    The reason why there is no complaints about FoV in WoW is that is is already set around 90 degrees (+- some depending on resolution and viewport).

    FoV still matters in a 3rd person game, and it matter allot. It even matters in top down games such as RTS, although at an even smaller degree.

    It matters most in FPS, as then the brain really knows what it is supposed to see. The further away we get from a first person view, the more we can stop looking at it as what we should see, and more like a window or a picture.
    In a game like GW2, where the camera is close to the ground however, it matters almost as much as in a first person view game, cause the brain think it should see more.

    I don't even get why i'm trying to argue here. Some people don't have issues with FoV and will always refuse to believe that it matters. The simple truth, proven over and over and over and over and... show that it does.

  15. #55
    Well, if they don't fix it by launch, theres gonna be alot of very ill and angry gamers within a few hours. Which will more than likey cause alot of bad publicity.

    Buy Guild Wars 2 and throw up..... like that'll attract people to buy the game :/

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryukai View Post
    Well, if they don't fix it by launch, theres gonna be alot of very ill and angry gamers within a few hours. Which will more than likey cause alot of bad publicity.

    Buy Guild Wars 2 and throw up..... like that'll attract people to buy the game :/
    I'm sure that a problem present in pretty much every MMO that effect a very minuscule amount of the population will TOTALLY kill the game. Hands down. Can't tell if serious.

    Not saying they shouldn't fix it, but mountain out of a molehill at it's finest right here. FoV already effects a relatively small percent of the population, and third person FoV effects even less.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    I'm sure that a problem present in pretty much every MMO that effect a very minuscule amount of the population will TOTALLY kill the game. Hands down. Can't tell if serious.

    Not saying they shouldn't fix it, but mountain out of a molehill at it's finest right here. FoV already effects a relatively small percent of the population, and third person FoV effects even less.
    Your last statement is misinformed. FoV affects far more than a small percentage. Most people who cried for more zoom and a change of the camera angle and people who said they feel claustrophobic while playing guild wars 2 don't realize that an fov change is what their brain is screaming for. They don't realize that an FOV slider would remedy most of the issues they have.
    Every time the FoV is brought up on the official forum the issues is drowned out by people screaming for more zoom out ability, even though asking for more zoom is in fact a cause of the FoV being narrow.

  18. #58
    You're right. All of life's problems can be solved through FoV, and every complaint about the camera was because of the lack of a FoV slider.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Plzbegentle View Post
    Saw the FoV video , but anything more than killing enemies , sound like rocket science to me :P
    In the last part at the end of the video , <<he said that increasing FoV gives more informations to the player>> .
    Will it somehow effect the servers (stress them , even more - demending more information to be sent from the server to ur pc***) and uterly lags even more areas like WvWvW where massive of players clash or DEs in Orr (guessing mot ppl will be there) ?

    Edit: For example in Wintergasp in WoW they have a limit of 200 players , or would lag like hell, like in in the start of Wotlk
    Since the feature is already a part of the game as seen in the last video in the first post and also seen if you go windows mode and stretch the image, I highly doubt that it's something that would cause server stress. The only thing far as I know that it would affect is that your machine would be showing more peripheral vision in the image which would alleviate the stress on your eyes.
    It gives more information in the sense that it let's your brain see an image that is more natural. Try walking around with patches to cover up your side vision all day and you will be wishing for a larger field of view, cause tunnel vision isn't natural.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-14 at 01:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    You're right. All of life's problems can be solved through FoV, and every complaint about the camera was because of the lack of a FoV slider.
    All of life's problems? Hardly. All issues relating to feeling constricted, feeling you need more zoom out, feeling nausea,and a sense of tunnel vision issues would however all be related to fov being wrong for you.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    I'm sure that a problem present in pretty much every MMO that effect a very minuscule amount of the population will TOTALLY kill the game. Hands down. Can't tell if serious.

    Not saying they shouldn't fix it, but mountain out of a molehill at it's finest right here. FoV already effects a relatively small percent of the population, and third person FoV effects even less.
    I didn't say it would "TOTALLY kill the game", and most games that have this problem tend to have a smaller size playerbase, therefore very few ppl affected and not much is done about it.

    But for a game as massivley advertised as this, with an already large pre-existing playerbase, and attracting more people. It's going to get alot of publicity at launch.

    Which means reports of people throwing up/feeling nausious/headaches etcetc... are going to be reported on forums all over the place, which WILL attract media attention.

    p.s. media isn't just worldwide/country spesiffic tv news (which most people auto think of first) it can also mean gaming magazines

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