ArenaNet has made something special!

[Smokinya]

As soon as you compare one game to another you INSTANTLY set yourself up to fail! After watching Gameplay videos and listening to Dev interviews I took everything about other MMO's and kicked them out the door! In BWE1 I made a Charr got used to controls(30mins) and ran off in a direction to explore, I rarely looked at my map and just had some good old fun! Anyone comparing GW2-Any other MMO... you've just a ruined a great game, stop comparing and PLAY the product in front of you.

People really complain about everything... they say they want something new and Dev's give it to them then they start going "WHYS IT NOT LIKE X MMO?" I'm amazed new games even sell anymore!

Basically play GW2 like GW2 not like WoW or Rift but PLAY GW2! Explore, level have fun if you don't like the game well, thats okay!

[hatsune]

For explorable dungeons, you probably do not want to pug them anymore than you want to pug normal mode raids in WoW. This may change in the future if and when players get more comfortable with them and the mechanics, at which point they may get treated more like story mode dungeons. For which, see below. Until then, a group of five is much easier to organize than a group of 10-25 player

All content is puggable really. I raid led ICC10/25 with no GS every week for a period. There was no option since LFR did not exist. Not everyone can meet the timings for running content with a guild. Its not a factor of the total time spent per week on average but more of a timetable requirement. I don't log in on regular intervals because I structure my gaming around my life not the other way round. As such, I cannot guarantee being online at any time or for any period of time. A condition that will not endear me to any progression or evenly loosely organized guild. For players like us PUGs are the most important things in the game. I do not fear difficulty. I only fear the lack of allies to attempt content with.

As it currently stands there is no reliable way to find any coop content without relying on spamming. Not in the endgame dungeons and not in the island of dailies. It is easier to PUG a 5 than a 10/25 certainly but the absence of an automated LFD is a barrier to accessibility that only serves to cause trouble to players like me. There was a time where LFD/LFR was only an abstract concept and players like me accepted our lot. Now with it being a reality, I find it .... unfriendly ... that games intentionally choose to avoid it.

Mentioned that, peeps tend to not read entire threats lol.

As for more effort lets see

1. check in guild - noone interested
2. check friend's list - noone interested
3. bargain in guild - I'll tank next one for you on my alt if you help me do this one - noone interested or capable?
4. trade spam time - few minutes later you either have a group or you don't, if it's the latter, move on to other things, if they happen to be bank sorting, ah, then keep on spamming, if you're out of the city, try later. Got a crap group? Say sorry this won't work, bye. Try later. 10 mins tops - don't stress yourself

It will only become frustrating if you allow it to be.

You see. The above will in all reasonability, take longer to start, run and complete a run as compared to a LFD system. From a pure efficiency point of view, not automating the recuritment and replacement aspect of group finding will result in a longer average run time. I have no problems with people saying they dislike LFD but surely we can at least have common ground and agree that groups form faster and leavers are replaced faster.

Why not? What guarantee have you got now that LFG/LFR is out there, that you will breeze through the dungeon, as you assume you are entitled to, right then and then? You can run into pricks that will ruin the run just because that is their idea of fun, whether you picked them up manually or via a tool.

You appear to prefer, not to meet or interact too much with people, which has a high chance of facilitating future smooth runs in good company, in favor of instant access to a twat lottery.

Don't think I'll ever grasp why.

Now there's something to be said about interaction of random allies across realms and the potential to form inter realm friendships. There's also something to be said about cooperation not being dependent on how the group is formed but that's all not relevant here. Mostly because that's very dependent on opinion.

However do consider the following. There is already a common foe to face (the content) and I want to spend what time I have avaliable in game to challenge it rather than fight logistics, leavers and recruitment spam. Hopefully we can find some agreement on that.

[rezoacken]

GW2 wont be a gear dependent game. That will turn away many players I think. There are going to be many players looking for the better + items as possible. It might happen in PvE but PVP everyone is on the same level and the only distinction would be skill and what skills and traits you use.

Content is always repeated yet in a different skin. typical of any quest that has been done in a RPG. I have started 3 Norn Characters and even though I have done the events and Hear area before, It never felt stale.

Well yeah but it has been said many times before: GW2 won't please everyone.
For me GW2 looks like a "hate or love" game. I think its fine, it will have its fans and that's enough.

the game is so different that no one really knows how he will feel after 1-2 months. Especially the people that don't like pvp and they are interested mostly on pve. Sure, running around and do dynamic events is fun but for how long? Maybe it will be for years, maybe for some months, nobody knows. And since there is no gear treadmills and you are not after anything most people may lose interest. I know I will. People say, you have to play for fun not for gear, you have to change the way that you look gaming, e.t.c. But have they did it already?and how do they know of it? I can talk all day and say how fun it will be to do something, but before I do it, everything is just words in the air. Also fun is subjective...

If someone doesn't want to make alts, want competitive pve and dont want to pvp... yeah he probably will get bored. But that's also buying a game for only 50% of its content. Not that there is anything wrong with that, people have a right to not pvp, but then its pretty obvious they will run out of content faster.

What I do in games is create many alts, have all crafting professions and leveling my alts by using crafting professions and gear them every few levels with top armor. At the end level I try to get them the best gear I can and once I do this, I switch to an alt. This is how I play the game and this is what keeps me busy and interested about the game.

If you really do all this, GW2 should provide a lot of hours for you

[Tharjax]

You really need to lower your expectations, mate. Even if GW2 is a good game you won't be able to enjoy it for long if you over hype/praise it.

So according to you if i lower my expectations i will like this game more?

I have high expectations as I did for any other game I have played, and it either met them or didn't. From what I have played so far it has met my expectations.

Now as far as the rest of the game, well I haven't played it yet, but I believe ArenaNet will not somehow screw up the later part of the game.

[Shostie]

Well considering Warhammer had a good camera......probably.

Warhammer failed for the same reason all other MMOs "fail", people don't have their 10 maxed out level 70s/80s/85s, Curse playing their game for them, and a terribly outdated game that plays on outdated computers.

People are still playing Warhammer, I played it until Aion came out and everyone ran over there. I also still Play SWToR since they finally merged servers and its a lot of fun even though it supposedly failed as well.

Everyone will run to GW2 and the same thing will happen to it, that happen to all MMOs.......people that don't enjoy making dozens of alts will play it occasionally when they get bored. If they Fix the camera issue I plan on doing a lot of PvP while still doing PvP in SWTor as well. I dont think the camera is Bad in WvW because theres no "tight" areas to berserker the camera. It will be nice to play Warhammer again under a different name

You should start referring to it as Warhammer 2 instead of Guild Wars 2.

[Iamanerd]

GW2 looks really good and when I played BWE3 I enjoyed the leveling but all in all I'm tired of mmos and I'm giving them a break for awhile and depending on how good GW2 does after the initial first couple of months I will consider getting it. But right now other games have higher priority to me such as Borderlands 2 and Darksiders 2.

[Miah]

You should start referring to it as Warhammer 2 instead of Guild Wars 2.

Warhammer had a good camera

[DrakeWurrum]

people that don't enjoy making dozens of alts will play it occasionally when they get bored

There's people out there playing MMORPGs that don't make alts?

[rezoacken]

There's people out there playing MMORPGs that don't make alts?

I dont do much alts in wow, way too boring to level up. I have one or two though but each time it required big motivation to begin it.
I'll see with gw2 but so far I have done the starting zones multiple times to level 20 and I'm not bored. Maybe the randomness of DE compared to set quests helps me.

Maybe the randomness of "what's next" makes the future obscure and a "surprised", and set quests make it so you already know what's next and there's no surprise. Maybe that's why I feel less bored...

[DrakeWurrum]

I dont do much alts in wow, way too boring to level up. I have one or two though but each time it required big motivation to begin it.

Well. Leveling up in GW2 has gotta be fun, or else the entire game isn't. :P

[hatsune]

Levelling tends to be fun when the experience is reasonably different. WOW, SWTOR and most similar MMOs have this problem where the levelling experience is reasonably similar for alts. This leads to boredom very fast.

[Sylvanie]

All content is puggable really.

Note that I didn't say that explorable dungeons would never be puggable. In fact, I said the opposite (leaving aside the fact that "puggable" is a matter of degree and not a binary condition).

I raid led ICC10/25 with no GS every week for a period.

That requires some clarification. Given that only a few hundred guilds had fully cleared ICC 25 before the nerfs started, I suspect that you mean a combination of "only partial clears", "with an x% ICC buff", and "some form of vetting that wasn't based on Gearscore took place". Which is really a different thing from "all content" (and even more different from "all content with completely random players"). The problem with pugging a full clear of ICC was that there were several mechanics were a single raid member doing something wrong could cause a wipe (Ice Tombs on Sindragosa, Defile on Lich King, Vampiric Bite on BQL). And some prior experience was needed if you didn't want to spend a few wipes learning the fights. LFR works because the LFR-Dragonsoul fights have been nerfed into oblivion where, no matter how bad an individual player is, it is nearly impossible for them to wipe the raid on their own and you can finish most fights with half the raid dead. That's also why LFR is only available in the 25-player format; 10-player raids don't have the same amount of redundancy (or, less charitably put, limited carrying capacity), even if you remove mechanics that require individual responsibility.

Jin'do in ZA (a.k.a. "the PUG killer") was a good example of what happens when you introduce content that requires every single player to do their job in an LFD environment. True, technically he was puggable, but that often came at the expense of blood, swears, tears. More than once, I was the only member left of the original group when he was finally downed; everyone else had left.

Not everyone can meet the timings for running content with a guild.

The scheduling constraints in WoW that make this difficult exist because of (1) lockouts and (2) requiring you to organize 10/25 players. It is an order of magnitude easier to organize five players without lockouts, especially when basically any five competent people will do. Consider for a moment how difficult it would be to form groups in WoW if all you required was "LF4M DPS".

As it currently stands there is no reliable way to find any coop content without relying on spamming.

A genuine question: Have you played MMOs that aren't WoW/EQ clones? City of Heroes, for example, has a group finder for its task forces, but most groups are formed manually (and it's not because of vetting -- CoH is probably one of the easiest MMOs in existence). Forming groups in CoH is easy because of the sidekicking system and not requiring tanks or healers. Which is pretty much the same as in GW2. The LFG tool in CoH, from what I've seen, is primarily used as a teleport system (which is made unnecessary by waypoints in GW2).

You see. The above will in all reasonability, take longer to start, run and complete a run as compared to a LFD system.

I don't think anybody disagrees that a group finder would make putting groups together faster. Given that GW2 allows not only cross-world, but also cross-region grouping, queues would be near instant (all you'd need when you don't have specific roles to fill is five players being in the queue, anywhere in the world). But it's not a free lunch.

The problem is that this convenience comes at a price and that group finders have adverse effects. They tend to destroy server communities; LFD groups tend to suffer the usual problems of anonymity on the internet (warning, NSFW language behind the link); just because it's faster to form a group does not mean that you won't pay for that by finishing more slowly (see: Jin'do the PUG killer above); and content gets nerfed to eliminate individual responsibility. There are those of us who do not think the costs are worth the convenience.

[melodramocracy]

There's people out there playing MMORPGs that don't make alts?

Believe it or not!

[barackopala]

There's people out there playing MMORPGs that don't make alts?

It will still be a stupid statement to say "i dont want to create alts cuz i dont wanna repeat content and it's slow", you can lvl up with crafting once you get some gathering with your main that is ! (amazing idea they brought up, might do just that on my first alt )

[Pacabra]

STOPPPPPPP, i have to wait a couple more days to purchase it, even though i know ill have it im getting jealous.

Hopefully itll still have the 3 day headstart bonus in about 5 days, if not, i wont be a very happy person

[DarthTenore]

I dont do much alts in wow, way too boring to level up. I have one or two though but each time it required big motivation to begin it.
I'll see with gw2 but so far I have done the starting zones multiple times to level 20 and I'm not bored. Maybe the randomness of DE compared to set quests helps me.

Maybe the randomness of "what's next" makes the future obscure and a "surprised", and set quests make it so you already know what's next and there's no surprise. Maybe that's why I feel less bored...

That's the thing. I made 3 Norn characters doing all 3 stories. DE are random enough. Even if I did these 'events' before it never felt stale. Particularly if playing another class. Doing the events with different play-style is enough to have a good time.

[Deleted]

GW2 is a good game but ppl are overhyping it.
The game has still some gpu issues, lag spikes, and so on.
And just like Totalbiscuit said, if they are not gonna put in some indoor raids ppl are getting bored after a while.
1 tip for Arenanet, make some indoor raids and this game will be even better for pve ppl, because ppl aren't going to do those dungeons over and over again.

[jvbastel]

GW2 is a good game but ppl are overhyping it.
The game has still some gpu issues, lag spikes, and so on.
And just like Totalbiscuit said, if they are not gonna put in some indoor raids ppl are getting bored after a while.
1 tip for Arenanet, make some indoor raids and this game will be even better for pve ppl, because ppl aren't going to do those dungeons over and over again.

People did those dungeons over and over again in GW1, don't really see the need for indoor raids in GW2. There were only a few places in GW1 where you had more than the standard group size (8). IIRC that was Urgoz' warren, The deep and Domain of anguish. Even there, the group size was 12. Still only 1.5 times the regular group size.

Most endgame content (UW/FOW/SF/EOTN dungeons/HM/Vanquishing) was regular 8-man groups.

[terrahero]

GW2 is a good game but ppl are overhyping it.
The game has still some gpu issues, lag spikes, and so on.
And just like Totalbiscuit said, if they are not gonna put in some indoor raids ppl are getting bored after a while.
1 tip for Arenanet, make some indoor raids and this game will be even better for pve ppl, because ppl aren't going to do those dungeons over and over again.

I disagree. Look at WoW, it has indoor raids. And i can gaurentee you people will start getting bored with MoP in a month. Because those that raid, cleared it. And those that dont raid, are done with grinding the same 5man dungeon over and over.
Raids are not the end-all of MMO gaming, and are certainly by no means obligated to be indoors.

The only reason people do the content, Raids included, over and over in WoW is because of the gear threadmill. If that wasnt there, the majority would do 1 LFR run to see the raid, and then be done with it. Maybe if they really liked it theyll run it two or three more times, but thats it.

[Deleted]

GW2 is a good game but ppl are overhyping it.
The game has still some gpu issues, lag spikes, and so on.
And just like Totalbiscuit said, if they are not gonna put in some indoor raids ppl are getting bored after a while.
1 tip for Arenanet, make some indoor raids and this game will be even better for pve ppl, because ppl aren't going to do those dungeons over and over again.

I'd rather fight a dragon in a massive (and hard) elite DE than raiding. After playing wow for years im kinda tired of raids and prefer a more laid back pve expience.