One Problem with GW2 and BGs

[vilhelm1992]

shit, you mean like mesmers and engineers?

dont forget charrs and asura, you see them in every game :O

[Lillpapps]

For the love of holy charr fur, listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6GWx...tailpage#t=86s

I tried to listen to him but I just got distracted by him actually deleting items in his bag instead of sending his crafting mats to the bank... Isnt he supposed to be informed on the game?

[Exedore]

So it could be very fun and work, there's nothing wrong with larger numbers, and it doesn't go against any of anets design principles.

Glad to see someone around here has some common sense unlike the fanbois who foam at the mouth if anyone isnt 100% satisfied with the game.

Few of us are being fanbois. You're being back seat drivers. You act like the ArenaNet developers haven't considered these PvP archetypes, discussed them at length, and concluded that they were not viable for the type of gameplay in GW2. Let's go over this again:

Team Deathmatch: Doesn't work because teams would just load up on damage and lob it at each other. The match either stalemates or one side loses a player and then they lose the game. It severely limits the types of playstyles that you can since you just need to deal lots of damage and use positioning to avoid it. Get stuck in some CC and you're probably going to die. When your goal is make most playstyles of all professions viable, team deathmatch severely limits that.

Capture the Flag: I've never seen this be good in an MMORPG. Why? Because it just devolves into a team deathmatch. Either both teams camp their flag (boring) or each team grabs the other team's flag and gets back to their base. Then everyone but the flag carrier moves to the middle for a giant came of chicken. Playing any other way in a competitive setting will make you lose.

Martyr: (Team get points for holding an object that usually deals damage to the holder) This is just team deathmatch with an added mechanic.

Conquest: This works for GW2 gameplay. It divides up players into smaller numbers, but allows teams to use superior numbers temporarily. It encompasses mobile strategies, bunker strategies, and everything in between. It's easy for the pace of the game to shift, but not be unrecoverable later. It forces the team with less nodes to take an active role in acquiring more, which ends camping an area and staring contents. Those two elements have the added benefit of making it fun to watch. The concept is easy to understand and there's always action to watch.

Payload: (Move items from a spawn point to a delivery point to increase score. Multiple spawn points scattered around the map). This could work in GW2. You can view the spawn points or choke points in delivery paths as control points in the conquest map. So the same mechanics apply. However, doing a good job of implementing this gameplay style takes a lot more work and map balancing than conquest.


As for increasing the number of players, that won't work too well either. Going back to the argument to avoid team deathmatch, when you have more players, you want to spread them out even more to maintain the same density as in the current 5v5 Conquest maps. But the bigger you make the map, with more objectives, the more chaotic it becomes. On top of that, you have the tendency for unorganized players to zerg, which just gets us back to team deathmatch.

I'm sure we'll see a Conquest map with a secondary mechanic of an item or flag that can be captured by either team for points. However, balancing that is much more difficult than you may initially think. A single secondary objective acts like a fourth node. If it gives less point return than a node, it's useless. If it gives more, then everyone will fight over it and it becomes team deathmatch.

---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 08:52 PM ----------

Ugh. Wasted 30min. Remember kids: It's not who started it; it's who's mature enough to stop it.

[Deleted]

I tried to listen to him but I just got distracted by him actually deleting items in his bag instead of sending his crafting mats to the bank... Isnt he supposed to be informed on the game?

He is, and really that is what you decide to take notice too? maybe he just didnt try out crafting on that character o_O i have deleted loads of mats during the beta, for that reason..i didnt try it out very much and there for didnt need to save the mats.

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 03:55 AM ----------

And what you should listen for in that clip is when he speaks about the interview with Anet and they speak about the diffrent types of ideas of bg´s they have been playing around with so far.

[Lillpapps]

He is, and really that is what you decide to take notice too? maybe he just didnt try out crafting on that character o_O i have deleted loads of mats during the beta, for that reason..i didnt try it out very much and there for didnt need to save the mats.

Its just so basic though. I thought it was something everyone know. Just right click an item and you know about it. It has nothing at all to do with crafting. Notice that he have lots of salvage kits. So he obviously had some knowledge about being able to salvage items.

[Deleted]

Its just so basic though. I thought it was something everyone know. Just right click an item and you know about it. It has nothing at all to do with crafting. Notice that he have lots of salvage kits. So he obviously had some knowledge about being able to salvage items.

Still not the point of the post...listen to the bit about the bg´s.

[DrakeWurrum]

I tried to listen to him but I just got distracted by him actually deleting items in his bag instead of sending his crafting mats to the bank... Isnt he supposed to be informed on the game?

It's beta. Nobody has reason to care about putting mats in the bank, unless they intended to focus heavily upon crafting.

[DanBowie]

Man op complains alot

Infracted.

[Lillpapps]

Still not the point of the post...listen to the bit about the bg´s.

I commented on the movie not your post. I heard what he said about bgs and I am with arenanet on this one. I cant see any other game mode work in a competitive setting. They might work for non tournament sPvP though. I just got distracted when he talked about stuff that I wasnt interested in.

It's beta. Nobody has reason to care about putting mats in the bank, unless they intended to focus heavily upon crafting.

Just thought that people that try to spread the word about the game would know the most basics about the game. If it doesnt matter then why does he bother to salvage? This is pretty OT so time to stop this conversation.

[NeonX]

I'm happy with the BG's but I also wouldn't mind a BG like WSG in WoW it was my favourite one.

[Bluedragonwolf]

I tried to listen to him but I just got distracted by him actually deleting items in his bag instead of sending his crafting mats to the bank... Isnt he supposed to be informed on the game?

To be absolutely fair, that's not him playing. He asks for people to send him gameplay to put in the background while he's chatting (be aware this is because there's only SO much footage of his that he has, and a lot of it has already been used on his channel for certain things; example being the jumping puzzle series). Looking at this one, under show more, seems the footage came from beekaynimaruichi. You can find the link to this persons channel under the show more.

[rigoremortis]

What you're doing is walking into a frozen yogurt shop and demanding they serve you chocolate ice cream instead.

ANet devs pride them selves on doing everything they possibly can in a different way. They don't want traditional.

Just think about that for a sec.

this ^

pretty sure the guys over at Anet are pretty adamant about making their games different than others. they arent gonna make this game like wow or rift, so its rather pointless to ask. since you're basically asking them to add things you've now grown accustomed to from other games, which is exactly what new MMO's are trying not to do, so they can create that next "EQ", "WoW", etc, etc

[Zilong]

I'll quote myself (wow) from another thread

My main point is simple.

No one here is asking for an specific mode, at least I'm not (just using Flag modes because they are easy target), but asking for more diversity. I applaud the Anet decision of making conquest their primary focus on launch because it's probably the best and easier way to balance. But to neglect any other kind of mode could potentially be a negative after months of launch. Having everything run on conquest with little sides it's nice but it's still conquest, you can ignore secondary mechanics in your own right and chances are not low that you won't fail as someone brought up Eye Of The Storm, you would often 3 cap instead of 2cap and get flag.

But anyhow. Diversity within conquest is awesome, something other games should do it way better by now, but that can only take you so long. Even if they are going for Esports, really I don't think many if ANY of us will ever even touch that, and that is not a good "excuse" for not including a bigger diversity of games, and not even the night balance is good enough to prevent players from wanting it. Some want it now, some will want it later, some will never want, but sooner or later it's even in Anet best interest to come up with something.

I just really don't think it's insane to ask for a little bit of diversity, and I'm not pushing for launch or anything. I don't want rift or Wow, I want gw2 but that doesn't exclude my right to want something more as well. Doesn't have to be based on other games already presented in other MMO's, and being fairly honest conquest is no innovation. Who's to say they cannot change/mix/match some other modes to their liking and put in the game?

[Squirrelbanes]

I just really don't think it's insane to ask for a little bit of diversity, and I'm not pushing for launch or anything. I don't want rift or Wow, I want gw2 but that doesn't exclude my right to want something more as well. Doesn't have to be based on other games already presented in other MMO's, and being fairly honest conquest is no innovation. Who's to say they cannot change/mix/match some other modes to their liking and put in the game?

I think the quote from Anet given earlier sums it up pretty well though.
They looked into it and felt it didn't fit the dynamic of GW2.
They may work out how to do it...one thing Anet do very well is adapting concepts to fit their style. So I wouldn't be surprised to see it in later in some way, shape or form. But the standard ctf just doesn't fit their design philosophy.

Ur not insane for asking. At all. But they've said why they don't think it fits yet.
Watch this space for an innovation on it though.

[rhinomatic]

There's nothing wrong with variety if it works. If it gets wedged in awkwardly and doesn't feel right with the mechanics of the game then it needs to stay out.

Hopefully they can develop versions of popular games that play well with GW2 rules. Having more stuff to do wont ever be a bad thing.

I'd even love to see some really bizarre PvP games, like say field hockey. Attack an object (the ball) to send it moving in a direction, attack players on the other team to prevent them from playing the ball, first to score seven goals wins.

Do something fun like that.

[Osprey39]

Nobody said turn all GW pvp into wow pvp, he/she said to also include some other stuff aswell, that only opens up their PVP to be enjoyable to more people, which will only help the game in the end.

Totally disagree. When you try to please everybody you end up pleasing nobody most of the time. You'll have people bitching about how such and such needs to be nerfed because it's too powerful in X battleground and this other thing needs to be buffed because it's useless in Y battleground. That's exactly what happened in WoW where the arena players were always calling for nerfs on everything even though the things they were complaining about were fine everywhere else.

[Gisei]

This thread has leeched a little bit more of my faith in humanity.

I for one am really looking forward to more modes than just conquest. Conquest has always been my preferred type of play, and it'll be a long time before I get bored of it, if ever, but a little variety can go a long way. I definitely don't want copies of modes from other games, as the OP is suggesting, but rather Anet make something that would actually fit into GW2 properly. I'm really hoping they put a really unexpected spin on something, or perhaps create something entirely new.

[Zilong]

Yep of course I want something to work. But I would feel seriously disappointed in PvP aspect of the game (which is a huge part for me) if they didn't add more game modes for the sake of the balance of one mode. Which some people seems to vigorously defend.

And I'm not talking about /me/ asking for diversity, I mean how the community seems to portrait the request for it and "hide" behind Anet decision to make a point. A good portion of my faith comes from gw1, even if someone tells me gw1 is not gw2 (which is very right), it's not wrong to assume the company would come up with various kinds of "unique" battles types.

With that said, the only question that bugs me is how often they can provide additions not only for PvE (events and such) but for PvP, be gear-wise or new maps even if within the conquest mode.

[Exedore]

Yep of course I want something to work. But I would feel seriously disappointed in PvP aspect of the game (which is a huge part for me) if they didn't add more game modes for the sake of the balance of one mode. Which some people seems to vigorously defend.

And I'm not talking about /me/ asking for diversity, I mean how the community seems to portrait the request for it and "hide" behind Anet decision to make a point. A good portion of my faith comes from gw1, even if someone tells me gw1 is not gw2 (which is very right), it's not wrong to assume the company would come up with various kinds of "unique" battles types.

There's a difference between saying there should be no other modes and saying that certain modes won't work or won't be as enjoyable as Conquest. The basis of this thread was suggesting that GW2 should have something because others games did. Just because another game has some type of PvP doesn't mean that it will translate well to GW2 or that it even worked well in the source game. The thread wasn't a discussion about what would be good for GW2 sPvP. If it had been, there would be much less hostility.

[Zilong]

There's a difference between saying there should be no other modes and saying that certain modes won't work or won't be as enjoyable as Conquest. The basis of this thread was suggesting that GW2 should have something because others games did. Just because another game has some type of PvP doesn't mean that it will translate well to GW2 or that it even worked well in the source game. The thread wasn't a discussion about what would be good for GW2 sPvP. If it had been, there would be much less hostility.

I agree, see what I did there? Tried to change this to a more productive discussion without having to use mod power XD. In which should even more needed since as you can see the OP got banned XD. Essentially I do not agree how this is put, here or wherever else, but that doesn't mean that behind those thick curtains there isn't something valuable and true to extract, in which the argument usually presented against it goes against both my way or the way the OP did.