Non-obvious evil historical figure

[Venziir]

Okay, this post is going to be a bit controversial but still. Constantine the Great. He held a few councils where it was essentially decided what the Bible will contain, randomly throwing out the parts of all the books they didn't like. For example, there are a few gospels (all from people other than the 4 main followers whose gospels were put in the Bible) which say that Jesus had a wife (that being Mary Magdalene) with whom he had a child. I mean, the Bible is a collection of books where awesome things can be found (like the Song of Songs, although of course that isn't interesting to me, it still is a piece of writing that has to be appreciated), but if Constantine the Great hadn't decided to assemble the Bible, a lot of bigotry that exists today would be gone.

Ooh good one! Good one indeed!

[matnisi]

Gilles de rais. . . Can't post link but he is pretty damn evil and definitely not obvious

[Catta]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

This guy - the most damaging man in history :P If you count the environment

[Venziir]

Gilles de rais. . . Can't post link but he is pretty damn evil and definitely not obvious

Here ya go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 12:16 AM ----------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

This guy - the most damaging man in history :P If you count the environment

Hah! Too late my fellow dane! I already mentioned him muhahahah!

[Skizo]

I'd say Janet Reno. Those poor Branch Davidians!

[Reeve]

I have studied the crusades extensively.
They are definitely part of the current issues between Islam, and Christianity, but the Mongolian invasion, not the Crusades, is what set the ME back several hundred years in terms of cultural development.

---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 06:59 PM ----------



What about Nero?

Nowhere near as bad as those other three.

[Defengar]

Oh absolutely, there is no question there. The Mongolian Horde utterly UTTERLY ravaged the ME - no questions asked, no wonder they spoke of the Mongolians as demons, for witnessing such an invasion surely must have seemed like Hell itself. So much culture, art, history and litterature was lost, it's was a cultural tragedy which borders on genocide. Similar to the Christians ravaging the great library of Alexander, just well multiplied by quite a bit. I wasn't saying that the Crusades "were to blame" for the backlash in the ME, just saying that it also affected the "conservative feelings" of the population - for lack of a better term.

I think the worst thing the crusades did didn't even happen in the ME. Go look up the fourth crusade. The one where the soldiers didn't even set foot in the ME and just went and sacked Constantinople and Zara instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

So much shit today is to blame for that its staggering.

The Latin soldiery subjected the greatest city in Europe to an indescribable sack. For three days they murdered, raped, looted and destroyed on a scale which even the ancient Vandals and Goths would have found unbelievable. Constantinople had become a veritable museum of ancient and Byzantine art, an emporium of such incredible wealth that the Latins were astounded at the riches they found. Though the Venetians had an appreciation for the art which they discovered (they were themselves semi-Byzantines) and saved much of it, the French and others destroyed indiscriminately, halting to refresh themselves with wine, violation of nuns, and murder of Orthodox clerics. The Crusaders vented their hatred for the Greeks most spectacularly in the desecration of the greatest Church in Christendom. They smashed the silver iconostasis, the icons and the holy books of Hagia Sophia, and seated upon the patriarchal throne a whore who sang coarse songs as they drank wine from the Church's holy vessels. The estrangement of East and West, which had proceeded over the centuries, culminated in the horrible massacre that accompanied the conquest of Constantinople. The Greeks were convinced that even the Turks, had they taken the city, would not have been as cruel as the Latin Christians. The defeat of Byzantium, already in a state of decline, accelerated political degeneration so that the Byzantines eventually became an easy prey to the Turks. The Crusading movement thus resulted, ultimately, in the victory of Islam, a result which was of course the exact opposite of its original intention.

[Venziir]

Nowhere near as bad as those other three.

I always found Nero to be hilarious - well in the bat shit crazy way obviously, but still.

[Reeve]

Okay, this post is going to be a bit controversial but still. Constantine the Great. He held a few councils where it was essentially decided what the Bible will contain, randomly throwing out the parts of all the books they didn't like. For example, there are a few gospels (all from people other than the 4 main followers whose gospels were put in the Bible) which say that Jesus had a wife (that being Mary Magdalene) with whom he had a child. I mean, the Bible is a collection of books where awesome things can be found (like the Song of Songs, although of course that isn't interesting to me, it still is a piece of writing that has to be appreciated), but if Constantine the Great hadn't decided to assemble the Bible, a lot of bigotry that exists today would be gone.

I actually agree with you, and would add Diocletian to that, but they were only damagingly wrong, not intentionally evil.

Maybe I ought to take it back about Constantine. I forgot for a moment that he killed his own wife and son at one point.

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 12:21 AM ----------

I always found Nero to be hilarious - well in the bat shit crazy way obviously, but still.

I think Nero, while he was the first actual bad emperor, gets the majority of his bad reputation from the way he treated early Christians. He isn't even in the same league as Caracola, who murdered his brother at a peace summit in front of his own mother. He also murdered 20,000 Alexandrians when a play he watched there didn't please him. He just generally ran Rome into the ground.

[Venziir]

I think the worst thing the crusades did didn't even happen in the ME. Go look up the fourth crusade. The one where the soldiers didn't even set foot in the ME and just went and sacked Constantinople and Zara instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

So much shit today is to blame for that its staggering.

Aye that was.... Well staggering simply just isn't a big enough word. The Crusaders were just vile and disgusting people. And as for the latter bit regarding the greeks and turks, even though the Turks were savage warriors and marauders they wouldn't have done what the Crusaders did - hell they left most of Constantinople standing, they even kept all the holy places (granted they turned them into Mosques and such, but that was mainly just done by adding a few spires and crescents). The conquest of Jerusalem is the same - when the Crusaders claimed it they killed, ravaged, raped and paved their way with blood - the Muslims or rather Saracens did no such thing, quite the contrary they started rebuilding, tending to the local population and such.

I repeat: The Crusaders were disgusting people.

[matnisi]

Thanks ven , he had no global impact like others posted In this thread but Gilles is certainly one of the most vile individuals of all time

[Venziir]

I actually agree with you, and would add Diocletian to that, but they were only damagingly wrong, not intentionally evil.

Maybe I ought to take it back about Constantine. I forgot for a moment that he killed his own wife and son at one point.

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 12:21 AM ----------



I think Nero, while he was the first actual bad emperor, gets the majority of his bad reputation from the way he treated early Christians. He isn't even in the same league as Caracola, who murdered his brother at a peace summit in front of his own mother. He also murdered 20,000 Alexandrians when a play he watched there didn't please him. He just generally ran Rome into the ground.

No doubt - and also Nero is still famous due to the whole "playing fiddle while watching Rome burn" story, which is no doubt grossly overrated by now, but still hilarious and outrageous.

---------- Post added 2012-08-13 at 12:26 AM ----------

Thanks ven , he had no global impact like others posted In this thread but Gilles is certainly one of the most vile individuals of all time

Np, I find it ironic that while he served Jeanne D'arc he was also a prolific serial killer of children. "I'll serve the girl who claims that god speaks to her - Oh and I'll roast this child next to her". Great guy!

[Northy]

Thomas Edison - Devil

Nikola Tesla - Saint

Look it up.

[Deleted]

Columbus. Killed a couple million of people because of profit. I mean, Haiti/Dominican R. had a couple million people when he got there and when he died it was practically devoid of the natives.
Genghis Khan. It's hard to say wether it has anything to do with him as a person, but Mongolian culture was rather crazy at the time with the whole pillage and conquer thing.
Tojo. The real leader of Japan during WW2 (I think I got his name right). The invasion of China was a complete atrocity.
All major communist leaders, need not say more.
Cortez and the dude who destroyed the Inca. Again destroying entire civilizations for profit is as evil as can be.
Gaius Julius Caesar. A third of Gaul was killed or enslaved during his war. Though he did do some good things for the plebs before he was assassinated.
Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, or Augustus for short, the first emperor of Rome. Nasty bastard, the things he did to get where he got... By all accounts a mean, cold-hearted man, though cunning and genius.
King Karl(Charles) XII of Sweden. His "Great Northern War" destroyed his own country as a power to be reconed with, depopulated Poland-Lithuania (look up the "Deluge" in Polish-Lithuanian history) and then he led a foolhardy campaign straight into Russia where his entire army was destroyed.

I have many mor examples but I don't want to abuse the thread...

[Venziir]

Columbus. Killed a couple million of people because of profit. I mean, Haiti/Dominican R. had a couple million people when he got there and when he died it was practically devoid of the natives.
Genghis Khan. It's hard to say wether it has anything to do with him as a person, but Mongolian culture was rather crazy at the time with the whole pillage and conquer thing.
Tojo. The real leader of Japan during WW2 (I think I got his name right).
Cortez and the dude who destroyed the Inca. Again destroying entire civilizations for profit is as evil as can be.
Gaius Julius Caesar. A third of Gaul was killed or enslaved during his war. Though he did do some good things for the plebs before he was assassinated.
Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus, or Augustus for short, the first emperor of Rome. Nasty bastard, the things he did to get where he got... By all accounts a mean, cold-hearted man, though cunning and genius.
King Karl(Charles) XII of Sweden. His "Great Northern War" destroyed his own country as a power to be reconed with, depopulated Poland-Lithuania (look up the "Deluge" in Polish-Lithuanian history) and then he led a foolhardy campaign straight into Russia where his entire army was destroyed.

I have many mor examples but I don't want to abuse the thread...

Ah yes... Cortez - now he was a real bastard.

[Gallahadd]

Oliver Cromwell

True it mostly depends on who you ask.... but damn.. that's a messed up record, even as a briton I think this guy was a bit of a fucking mental.

[Venziir]

Oliver Cromwell

True it mostly depends on who you ask.... but damn.. that's a messed up record, even as a briton I think this guy was a bit of a fucking mental.

Ahh yes, well there is a reason as to why a lot of bad guys are named Cromwell heh.

[matnisi]

[/COLOR]

Np, I find it ironic that while he served Jeanne D'arc he was also a prolific serial killer of children. "I'll serve the girl who claims that god speaks to her - Oh and I'll roast this child next to her". Great guy![/QUOTE]

Lol, indeed , somewhere I found some detailed descriptions and accounts of his crimes and even compared to modern killers like dahmer or fish his murders were disgusting

[Catta]

Has anyone mentioned the Killer Clown? John Wayne Gacy. Now thats a game card.

[matnisi]

[/COLOR]

Np, I find it ironic that while he served Jeanne D'arc he was also a prolific serial killer of children. "I'll serve the girl who claims that god speaks to her - Oh and I'll roast this child next to her". Great guy![/QUOTE]

Lol, indeed , somewhere I found some detailed descriptions and accounts of his crimes and even compared to modern killers like dahmer or fish his murders were disgusting