1. #1
    Moderator Wikiy's Avatar
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    Divine Purpose instead of Holy Avenger

    Hello everyone.

    So, at the moment, everyone seems to be complaining how our burst phases are huge, but we have no real damage between the burst phases. But i have to, why use Holy Avenger then? The whole point of this talent system is to make sure people make a choice. If having a 120k burst phase isn't the choice you want, then use Divine Purpose. Yes, the numbers might not be balanced right now, but by the time it goes live, they should be.

    I'd also like to ask, which is better; Holy Prism or Execution Sentence? And i mean in both cases (Holy Avenger and Divine Purpose). It seems to me like Holy Prism would be a good choice if you go for Holy Avenger (since there will be gaps in the rotation without Divine Purpose) and Execution Sentence would be a good choice if you go for Divine Purpose.

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    i use execution sentence... and have been messing around with Holy avenger and DP since the change...prior to the change i was using DP though because Holy Avenger is only 15secs on a 2min cd and wings is 20 sec on a 2min cd

    this new Holy Avenger is nice, the burst is amazing
    Divine Purpose is meh... i like it but i dont like it...with more haste i could see holy avenger being nicer then DP

    in pvp its situation... if you want burst go Holy Avenger, if your playing a more support role then go Divine Purpose, and pray for back to back WoGs


  3. #3
    Here are my thoughts on Divine Purpose (DP) vs Holy Avenger (HA) vs Sanctified Wrath (SW):
    I will choose Divine Purpose. Here's why:
    SW really isn't the best choice for holy. A 50% cool down on Holy Shock is nice, but the other 2 trump it by far.
    HA is nice for fights when you know there's going to be burst... unfortunately, it seems that the fights in beta have a lot of aoe damage throughout the entire encounter (with a few exceptions). My grip with this: You still need abilities that generate HP in order to get your 3 HP ability. So you have to spend mana for these 'free' spells. Granted, you can Crusader Strike for low mana output - but you still waste a GCD, spend mana and then that GCD wastes ~1/15 of the cooldown (since it has a 15 second cooldown).
    DP gives you the chance for another 3 HP spell (with a 25% chance to proc) after using a HP spell. This means you don't have to spend mana to get a FREE 3 HP spell, which means you save mana for a big heal (which will be huge early in MOP).
    On Beta, DP procs a LOT and it really helps with my mana efficiency. I've tried both SW and HA in raid testing, and there's no doubt in my mind, at least early on, that I will be taking DP.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbubble View Post
    Here are my thoughts on Divine Purpose (DP) vs Holy Avenger (HA) vs Sanctified Wrath (SW):
    I will choose Divine Purpose. Here's why:
    SW really isn't the best choice for holy. A 50% cool down on Holy Shock is nice, but the other 2 trump it by far.
    HA is nice for fights when you know there's going to be burst... unfortunately, it seems that the fights in beta have a lot of aoe damage throughout the entire encounter (with a few exceptions). My grip with this: You still need abilities that generate HP in order to get your 3 HP ability. So you have to spend mana for these 'free' spells. Granted, you can Crusader Strike for low mana output - but you still waste a GCD, spend mana and then that GCD wastes ~1/15 of the cooldown (since it has a 15 second cooldown).
    DP gives you the chance for another 3 HP spell (with a 25% chance to proc) after using a HP spell. This means you don't have to spend mana to get a FREE 3 HP spell, which means you save mana for a big heal (which will be huge early in MOP).
    On Beta, DP procs a LOT and it really helps with my mana efficiency. I've tried both SW and HA in raid testing, and there's no doubt in my mind, at least early on, that I will be taking DP.
    I think he's talking about Ret.
    Think of the hubris it must take to yank a soul out of non existence into this... meat, to force a life into this... thresher. That"s... so my daughter, she spared me the sin of being a father. - Rust Cohle

  5. #5
    Played every testing on the beta so far, and i like DP alot more.HA is okay for burst, and some stupid numbers at the pull.But the second time it line up for shit anymore with anything.Compared to the other ret in my raids, my dps is alot better and alot more consistent.Also has to do with him being absolutely clueless , sadly.The AoE fights, you'd want DP too, seeing how much damage Divine storm is doing right now, you'd not have to be constantly building HP, but just be able to use a proc for it.HA is defo not the kind of playstyle i want to be playing anymore.During tests i've been using Light's Hammer, it damage single target isn't far from ES, not to mention you get a little heal on every melee+ tanks and it does AoE damage.

  6. #6
    Moderator Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    I think he's talking about Ret.
    Indeed i am, i should have said in my OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by kath01
    Played every testing on the beta so far, and i like DP alot more.HA is okay for burst, and some stupid numbers at the pull.But the second time it line up for shit anymore with anything.Compared to the other ret in my raids, my dps is alot better and alot more consistent.Also has to do with him being absolutely clueless , sadly.The AoE fights, you'd want DP too, seeing how much damage Divine storm is doing right now, you'd not have to be constantly building HP, but just be able to use a proc for it.HA is defo not the kind of playstyle i want to be playing anymore.During tests i've been using Light's Hammer, it damage single target isn't far from ES, not to mention you get a little heal on every melee+ tanks and it does AoE damage.
    I think you may be right about Light's Hammer. The damage seems to be only about 20% lower than Execution Sentence yet it's probably very useful for most raid bosses since i'm assuming most have some sort of phase with 2 units next to each other.

  7. #7
    On beta i first went with holy avenger then changed to DP lately before the buff an it was amazing. Wog chain procs happen more often than not happenin. I can only see this talent gettin nerfed in live by an internal cd or summin. But for now trust me DP is the way to go.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikiy View Post
    Indeed i am, i should have said in my OP.



    I think you may be right about Light's Hammer. The damage seems to be only about 20% lower than Execution Sentence yet it's probably very useful for most raid bosses since i'm assuming most have some sort of phase with 2 units next to each other.
    Not to mention the free massive healing for anyone in range of it. It's still a bit odd that with Prism and Hammer you get both damage and healing at the same time, but with Sentence you have to pick one. ES could use something extra to compensate for being only healing or only damage.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Divine Purpose needs to be a PPM mechanic not a random luck mechanic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  10. #10
    Moderator Wikiy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    Divine Purpose needs to be a PPM mechanic not a random luck mechanic.
    At least it's A LOT less random now that we know it can happen only after an Inquisition or Templar's Verdict. IE, if it pops, you aren't forced to use it over other abilities because it might pop again, without you having used up the first one.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Ryuji's Avatar
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    What are some of the numbers people are seeing with the differences of DP vs. HA? Seems like HA + other cooldowns brings us to what we're like now, only slightly better for the initial burst at the early stage of a fight. However, the lack of DP would cause us to potentially lose uptime on Inq or would have us lose the ability to throw in a free TV(or DS now), would it not?

    I'm leaning more towards DP but I'm not quite sure yet... I also do not have access to the beta so I don't really have any experience in testing current stuff.
    Last edited by Ryuji; 2012-08-17 at 07:44 AM.
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  12. #12
    The Patient Phantoms's Avatar
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    Remember that Blizzard is planning to scale the proc chance of DP with your current amount of Holy Power. The proc chance would still be 25% at 3 HP, but you'll be able to have a chance at proc'ing it outside of the only 2 HP spenders we've got.

    We're changing Divine Purpose so its chance scales with Holy Power. The 25% is with 3. You should be able to benefit from using a 1 Holy Power ability, but we don't want to encourage fishing.
    Obviously behaving similarly to Pursuit of Justice (% only stacks up to 3 HP)
    Last edited by Phantoms; 2012-08-17 at 09:18 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    Remember that Blizzard is planning to scale the proc chance of DP with your current amount of Holy Power. The proc chance would still be 25% at 3 HP, but you'll be able to have a chance at proc'ing it outside of the only 2 HP spenders we've got.



    Obviously behaving similarly to Pursuit of Justice (% only stacks up to 3 HP)
    Im wondering whether that will lean to a different rotation playstyle, where we want to always keep 3 HP to max % DP proc, guess thats up to the theorycrafters to figure out

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  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    DP appears to have pulled ahead on the test dummies by 1-2K overall from about the last 10 Rets that have posted their damage reports so maybe a change is in the making.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Arthur-the-exalted's Avatar
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    You know its funny, I was going DP when the new talent system came out, but once they buffed HA, this is very interesting, I dont know many right now who pick DP over HA, I for one liked DP in cata, because sometimes getting 4 TV in a row was awesome, other times it was like WTFFFF PROC!!! but at 25% this kind of reminds me of the old lich king 2 set lol the 40% reset on our divine storm, if so then this will be the way I go for pve.

  16. #16
    Mechagnome Ryuji's Avatar
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    I could see the uses of Holy Avenger since you'll be generating bajillions of holy power while it's up, but Idunno. How many empty GCDs do you encounter with HA after you've used all your cooldowns and are just doing the normal priority on, say, a Patchwerk-like fight? To me, it seems like DP would fill in the gaps occasionally and it is quite nice indeed to have multiple DP procs back to back.

    Right now I'm still leaning more towards DP instead of HA, but it definitely seems like a tough decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    I find it unreasonable to ask for other than obvious reasons, when the reason obviously is the obvious reason.

  17. #17
    Keyboard Turner Salahudin's Avatar
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    I have been asking around since my beta launcher is not working correctly... Woe is me, but i will most certinly be running with Divine Purpose instead of Holy Avenger, at least for pve i think it is a sure hit.

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