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  1. #1
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    World Without World War II

    So everyone admits that Hitler is evil, there's no getting around that. But what would have happened if everyone's least favorite art reject with an interest in eugenics and politics had never started WWII? Lets just say in 1923, during his putsch, he got shot and died.

    Considering how WWII shaped our modern world, what would 2012 look like if WWII had never happened?

    Would the US still have gotten involved in a war against Japan? Would the Soviets rose to power? Would atomic power have been developed so early?
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  2. #2
    I kind of feel it would follow the time line of command and conquer red alert, with the USSR trying to invade Europe.
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  3. #3
    Deleted
    We will never know, sadly. But i think it would've been around the same as it is now. Humanity just has to go trough certain phases to reach a decent, fair, system. We're still far away from that, but we will get closer, step by step.

  4. #4
    There would certainly be a lot more white people on this planet.
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  5. #5
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    Now I would not say Hitler was "Evil"...

    I think we might be more populated and somewhat less advanced. But who knows, another war was going to happen sooner or later. The world wars was just not about killing jews, it was about communism(this might not be the right word) vs. demo/other. A world war would have happened evidently, I would rather sooner rather then later.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dnova03 View Post
    Well honestly I believe it was not all him. I think another person would and could have picked up his ideas an ideologies. He had plenty of supporters and a couple of right hand men.

    Germany was in shambles and people needed someone to blame.
    I have to agree with Dnova. He was (in part) a product of his times/environment.

    If not him, it would have been someone else. What would the world look like today? No one can answer that.

  7. #7
    Israel wouldn't have existed.

  8. #8
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    Well, it really depends on what you mean by "no WWII". All the pieces were on the chessboard in the time leading up to WWII, a major conflict was bound to happen, the Soviets wanted a worldwide revolution, by 1939 the Japanese were busy conquering Asia and there were still a whole bunch of smaller conflicts between the European powers regarding colonies around the world. And there were even more reasons for why a major conflict was bound to happen, many of them quite "boring" economic and political ones.

    However, assuming that somehow you could prevent all of these factors from causing a world-wide conflict, that you could somehow get everyone to simmer down and relax, sign a few treaties and buddy up with each other for the time being, then I suspect that outright colonialism would've survived a lot longer and with that we would've seen, of course, further conflicts related to the colonialism. Some of these would be local uprisings but with the European powers not weakened economically by WWII I suspect the main conflicts would've been between the various colonial powers rather than uprisings.

    Of course, as I said, preventing WWII would've been really hard due to the political climate at the time.

  9. #9
    Pandaren Monk Paladin885's Avatar
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    I saw an article about this very same subject, but it was different from the OP's perspective. It said that without Winston Churchill's constant pushing and shoving for America to get involved Europe might have been lost completely.

    Remember, back in 1938 and even up till 1940, Americans were like 68% against getting involved with Europe. Then shit went down and that changed and it went up to about 70% for the war effort....... then pearl harbor came, and thats when we wanted blood. So much so that we threw japanese into interment camps and have sense quietly hushed that history away lmao.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalnik View Post
    I have to agree with Dnova. He was (in part) a product of his times/environment.

    If not him, it would have been someone else. What would the world look like today? No one can answer that.

    If the implication is that if not Hitler someone else would have done it or something similar I'm going to have to call bullshit.. Hitler the events he set in motion weren't inevitable even if a right hand man got his moment in the sun in an alternate universe were Hitler got hit by a bus. Folks like Hjalmar Schacht, who were instrumental in the economic recovery of germany and was at the forefront of reparations negotiations(a huge influence in driving Germany to do what it did), could have easily lead the country down a different path and there were quite a few personas and parties jockeying for power.

    Thomas Jefferson actually struggled deeply with the question as to whether or not it was even constitutional for him to make the Louisiana purchase because as a strict constructionist it wasn't a power specifically granted to him. His answer could have changed had something as simple as the question been asked a few months earlier or later.
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  11. #11
    We wouldn't have the technology we have today, we'd probably be 20-30 years behind in tech right now. The internet, microwaves, spray cans, even getting on the moon -- these were all products of WW2 or the Cold War, and if it wasn't for the fear of getting destroyed by another nation, we wouldn't have progressed so quickly.

    Also, I don't think the US would be in the superpower state it is right now. We would be more like or lesser than GB or the USSR/Russia right now.
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  12. #12
    I really think history should remained un-muddled, and we should be pleased with what we have... if some guy offered me the chance to go back in time and say, kill Hitler, I'd probably kill the guy who offered this to me instead to make sure no one else could do it.

    Lots of horrible things happened in WWII, but lots of good came from it. In terms of technology, medicine, population reduction, and perked-up economies it was truly important. If we changed stuff around it may happen differently with a much worse outcome - or may not have happened and led instead to something much, much worse happens later down the line with much more destructive technology. I really don't even wanna think about the repercussions. I think in the end, WWII worked out pretty decently for the world as a whole and helped us grow as a species.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer
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    Probably more wars like before, just not as big as WW2.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk Yosef1015's Avatar
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    thered be a lot more jews thats for sure

  15. #15
    Fascism would have been a passing fad (even more fleeting than it was with Hilter on board). I think the result we would have seen would have been an even longer, more destructive Great Depression. The Soviets would have grown in power and influence (much like we saw in the Cold War, but even broader, with the lines of influence being drawn further to the west. The United States would not have had the same degree of military, economic or political power it had in the post-war era (in the real world). It would still have been the largest opposition to the Soviets, but would be far weaker by comparison. Nuclear weapons would probably have been researched by the Soviets first (although that is really hard to predict). I think that the remaining fascist states would have stood alongside the western democracies against the Soviets for a short time, however we know Mussolini would not have remained in power if not for Hitler. After that, Italy and Spain would have remained allies to the west.

    As for Japan, I think Imperial Japan would not have amounted to much beyond a regional power. They wouldn't have started a war with the US without the support of the rest of the Axis.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-14 at 12:28 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    Now I would not say Hitler was "Evil"...
    You don't consider a genocidal maniac evil?

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral bekilrwale's Avatar
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    Nuclear fission was already somewhat under way, but the war hastened research on nuclear research to a point of unprecedented speed. My Nuclear radiation teacher had an excellent way of describing just how fast this research really was. In seven years, we went from the mere concept of splitting an atom, into a working device capable of what goes on in stars. An equivalent to this in modern day, my teacher explained, is like going from the mere concept of a mobile phone based on studies with wave transmission, to a working Iphone 4 in only seven years. If you look at it that way, WWII brought us nuclear weapons WAY before they should have come.

    Now thats fine and dandy, but what does that really have to do with anything? There is truthfully only a single thing that guarantees the worlds protection from another world war, and what is that you may ask? The threat of mutual annihilation which can only really be brought about through the use of nuclear arms. So by hastening the date by which nuclear weapons were proliferated into our world I believe Hitler and his world war brought an end to world wars and mass conflicts earlier, allowing we as humans to focus on technology and "peace-time" efforts sooner then we would have been able to.

    Also, if World War II did not happen, then what if nuclear weapons were created during peace time when certain extremely unstable states were world players? Does the thought of Imperialist Japan with nuclear weapons frighten you? They were willing to die to the very last man, if they had enough nuclear weapons to turn the world into cinders, they would have chosen that route rather than surrender. Germany probably wouldn't have become Nazi Germany, but other people and other countries still had very violent and very imperialistic views. If they developed nuclear weapons, they would be cemented as a power that could not be deposed.

    You take the good with the bad when it comes to wars and genocide. Hitler did some evil acts, but he very well may have prevented some evil acts on an unimaginable scale.
    Last edited by bekilrwale; 2012-08-14 at 06:49 AM.
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  17. #17
    Deleted
    A World War 2 would have started some years later. Though it might have been USSR vs USA. And Germany would have went with USSR without the Axis for they hated France with a passion. And think a bit about it, you'd have the Axis and the Commintern together against the Allies. In this case, besides a worse devastation, there is also a high change the Allies would have lost.

  18. #18
    World without World War II?

    What exactly does the surface of Venus look like? Because the ideologies of the time could not co-exist for much longer than we did. Hitler was symptomatic of a conflict of ideologies that swept the world: Western Liberalism (aka Democracy), Fascism and Communism. For 40 years tensions simmered. And the powers of the world could not co-exist.

    Delay it another decade... what would happen? World War II, but everyone would have Nuclear Weapons, radar, jet aircraft and simple transistor-based computers. The Cold War did not turn into World War III precisely because of the memory of what World War II wrought. Without that memory, there would be no firewall against say, nuking London, or Pearl Harbor, or most of the German countryside.

    A system of many great powers is inherently unstable. One always tries to become supreme among them, which leads to lines being drawn, sides picked and a massive conflict to decide the course of the century. It happened in the 20th century with the Axis powers. It happened in the 19th century with Napoleon. It happened in the 18th century with the British and the French. Everything in the 17th Century was a series of protracted crises.

    Without World War II, if there were even a world at all that weren't ashen cinder, we would be gearing up for another conflict between powers and ideologies that cannot co-exist.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skroesec View Post
    World without World War II?

    What exactly does the surface of Venus look like? Because the ideologies of the time could not co-exist for much longer than we did. Hitler was symptomatic of a conflict of ideologies that swept the world: Western Liberalism (aka Democracy), Fascism and Communism. For 40 years tensions simmered. And the powers of the world could not co-exist.

    Delay it another decade... what would happen? World War II, but everyone would have Nuclear Weapons, radar, jet aircraft and simple transistor-based computers. The Cold War did not turn into World War III precisely because of the memory of what World War II wrought. Without that memory, there would be no firewall against say, nuking London, or Pearl Harbor, or most of the German countryside.

    A system of many great powers is inherently unstable. One always tries to become supreme among them, which leads to lines being drawn, sides picked and a massive conflict to decide the course of the century. It happened in the 20th century with the Axis powers. It happened in the 19th century with Napoleon. It happened in the 18th century with the British and the French. Everything in the 17th Century was a series of protracted crises.

    Without World War II, if there were even a world at all that weren't ashen cinder, we would be gearing up for another conflict between powers and ideologies that cannot co-exist.
    I've put in bold the parts which I'm contesting, since I can't delete the rest or your post wouldn't make sense.

    Anyway, if WW2 was delayed another 10 years, we wouldn't have nuclear weapons, jet aircraft or simple transistor-based computers. We might have radar, but it's pretty unlikely, and radar was developed fairly early on in the war anyway. We wouldn't have the rest because, even if a cold war-like scenario developed between conflicting alliances, a cold war does not drive military technology nearly so fast as a proper war does. There is a big difference between researching technology in order to stay even with a political rival, and researching it in order to stop that rival from battering down your door and killing you because your grandfather had a last name they didn't like.

    On to the second bold part, the Napoleonic wars didn't happen because of rival superpowers, it happened because the monarchies of Europe couldn't risk the ideas of the French revolution spreading to their own countries, Great Britain especially - there was already trouble brewing in Ireland, and of course the American Revolution was still fresh in the minds of both the aristocrats and the lower classes. If I was being pedantic I would also say that it was mostly in the 18th century, not 19th.

    As for your 18th century between Britain and France, there were no major wars in which Britain and France declared war on each other for their own ends. Although there were a lot of wars between them, most of them were started by Prussia or Austria. A minor point, and it doesn't really impact either of our arguments, but I wanted to say it anyway.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dnova03 View Post
    Well honestly I believe it was not all him. I think another person would and could have picked up his ideas an ideologies. He had plenty of supporters and a couple of right hand men.

    Germany was in shambles and people needed someone to blame.
    Hitler was the catalyst for the Nazi party but the ideals were not his alone, as Dnova03 has said. However if World War Two had never started, the world would actually be in a far worse situation then we currently are.

    - World War Two removed close to 50 Million people from the planet. This is an insane amount of people, who potentially would've lived on to have children. Imagine how the world would be today if we kept those extra 50 Million + their generations to come.

    - Currencies were also dramatically changed and the dominance of The US was ramped up because of the war.

    - Science & Healthcare was changed fundamentally due to the war. Many of the technologies and medications we have today are because of their need in war.

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