View Poll Results: what will replace gas/petrol for cars?

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  • electric

    44 34.65%
  • hydrogen

    59 46.46%
  • other

    24 18.90%
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  1. #1

    alternative fuel

    we all know that at some point something will replace fossil fuels as the power source for cars. which do you think it will be? which is the most viable, and why?

    leading candidates as of now are electric and hydrogen.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Hydrogen. So simple, and converts into water!



  3. #3
    Electricity, a 30sq mile solar panel even with how inefficent they currently are, could power the entire USA.

    Sun powered cars!

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Wookeh's Avatar
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    Hydrogen, simply because as it currently stands electric cars take too long to load and if you're out of electricity you're pretty much screwed. I've seen some ideas on gas stations implementing full batteries into cars but we're very far away from that and it'll take too much money to build while Hydrogen is easy to produce with infinite amounts (right ?) and can replace fuel rather easily.

  5. #5
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    While I know it's also a fossil fuel, I think Natural Gas will be the next stage, before we eventually move towards something else. Maybe a biofuel or electrical. Electric has a whole host of problems, though, not the least of which is range and access to construction materials. Hydrogen is even worse.
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  6. #6
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Electric might be able to do it, once we get over the hump of batteries that need to be recharged frequently and cars that lack horsepower (without killing the battery)

    Hydrogen kind of worries me, it tends to be . . . explody. If a hydrogen cell car can be safe in a car crash without becoming a miniature hindenberg on wheels then I'm all for it.

    Whatever gets us off oil, safely and reliably, I'm for.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Hydrogen. So simple, and converts into water!
    hopefully im not posting too soon, dont want to taint my poll :/

    but i agree, for several reasons.

    1: hydrogen is easily created, and can actually be the byproduct of processes we already use

    2: the water thing, like you said

    3: far more viable for quick refueling on long distance trips

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire
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    Hydrogen would be a great source but since it's pretty near impossible to make something truly idiot proof, you'd have a bunch of bombs on wheels.

  9. #9
    Well, it certainly won't be biofuels. The idea of using biofuels was stupid, is stupid, and always will be stupid.

    The solution will almost certainly be electric. The infrastructure to create and store electricity is already there, and there are so many more ways to do it than to produce and use hydrogen fuel cells. All that we're really waiting for is for battery tech to catch up (it's getting there) and for renewable energy sources to hit a critical mass so that the price point drops. At that point you could spend a few thousand bucks to install solar panels or some other renewable energy source and then the only fuel cost to drive your vehicle around would be replacing your battery every few years.

    Of course, this could devastate the fossil fuel industry so I expect them to try their hardest to bury these advances for as long as they can either by buying it out or by pressuring gov't to do stupid things to slow it down.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-14 at 03:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    While I know it's also a fossil fuel, I think Natural Gas will be the next stage, before we eventually move towards something else. Maybe a biofuel or electrical. Electric has a whole host of problems, though, not the least of which is range and access to construction materials. Hydrogen is even worse.
    Natural gas is too impractical on a large scale. A much more sensible solution would be natural gas plants to generate electricity, and then having cars that run on the electricity generated.

  10. #10
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    I had an idea a couple years back that you could do short range electric vehicles that could go maybe 5 miles on a charge, but allow them to "clip in" to a 3rd rail type network on the freeways that would power the vehicles on the freeway and charge them. Then when you got off the freeway, you'd only need to drive a couple miles to your destination and back to the freeway. It would solve the problem of how to get enough materials for the batteries for all the vehicles currently on the road, it would make the vehicles less expensive to manufacture, and it would be less environmentally damaging. It would require the construction of that infrastructure, of course.

    Also, if the technology got good enough someday, the connection to a 3rd rail could allow computers to know the location of all vehicles on the freeway and possibly drive the vehicles for us. Just program into the computer where you want the vehicle to exit the freeway, and the car drives itself until you exit. Better for safety, better for allowing people to do things in their cars, etc. Imagine on a 6 hour drive, you could go the whole distance without stopping for gasoline while playing computer games or reading a book or sleeping.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Electric might be able to do it, once we get over the hump of batteries that need to be recharged frequently and cars that lack horsepower (without killing the battery)

    Hydrogen kind of worries me, it tends to be . . . explody. If a hydrogen cell car can be safe in a car crash without becoming a miniature hindenberg on wheels then I'm all for it.

    Whatever gets us off oil, safely and reliably, I'm for.
    Tesla Roadsters are all electric cars that have an almost 300 mile range and go 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Electric might be able to do it, once we get over the hump of batteries that need to be recharged frequently and cars that lack horsepower (without killing the battery)

    Hydrogen kind of worries me, it tends to be . . . explody. If a hydrogen cell car can be safe in a car crash without becoming a miniature hindenberg on wheels then I'm all for it.

    Whatever gets us off oil, safely and reliably, I'm for.
    this debate was used against gas powered cars in the beginning. at first there was a battle between steam power and gas, and gas ended up winning obviously. hydrogen is not really any more dangerous than gas, and in some ways is safer (leaked hydrogen will dissipate very quickly instead of pooling like gas).

  13. #13
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptwonline View Post
    Well, it certainly won't be biofuels. The idea of using biofuels was stupid, is stupid, and always will be stupid.

    The solution will almost certainly be electric. The infrastructure to create and store electricity is already there, and there are so many more ways to do it than to produce and use hydrogen fuel cells. All that we're really waiting for is for battery tech to catch up (it's getting there) and for renewable energy sources to hit a critical mass so that the price point drops. At that point you could spend a few thousand bucks to install solar panels or some other renewable energy source and then the only fuel cost to drive your vehicle around would be replacing your battery every few years.

    Of course, this could devastate the fossil fuel industry so I expect them to try their hardest to bury these advances for as long as they can either by buying it out or by pressuring gov't to do stupid things to slow it down.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-14 at 03:03 PM ----------



    Natural gas is too impractical on a large scale. A much more sensible solution would be natural gas plants to generate electricity, and then having cars that run on the electricity generated.
    Why is natural gas impractical on a large scale? We've got skads of it in North America alone, and it can be compressed to work just like gasoline (though you'd need a CNG engine in your vehicle). The infrastructure for it is pretty much already there. Electric vehicles, on the other hand, have low maximum ranges, high cost, environmental issues associated with the batteries, supply issues with the metals needed to make the batteries, etc.
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  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Electricity, a 30sq mile solar panel even with how inefficent they currently are, could power the entire USA.

    Sun powered cars!
    You're going to need a source for that before I even think to believe it. A quick google search returns:

    http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...n-solar-power/

    This states that it would require about 10,000 square miles which is orders of magnitute greater than your stated 30.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Electricity, a 30sq mile solar panel even with how inefficent they currently are, could power the entire USA.

    Sun powered cars!
    Sure we will consider that after half the US is under water and the temperature outside is 300 degrees. Oil companies have the world by the nuts. Only hope is that hybrid cars catch on.

    People would rather pay energy bills over getting solar panels. Just accept the fact that people are retarded.
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  16. #16
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Tesla Roadsters are all electric cars that have an almost 300 mile range and go 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.
    Good, that means we're getting somewhere. Can these cars be recharged or have their batteries changed in the same time, or less, than it takes to gas up? Can they maintain interstate speeds for 300 miles? Can this be applied to larger vehicles, such as 18 wheelers or even aircraft? In order to cut ourselves away from oil, we have to change practically everything.

    But I don't see why we can't do this if we keep working on the problem.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Thwart View Post
    You're going to need a source for that before I even think to believe it. A quick google search returns:

    http://www.consumerenergyreport.com/...n-solar-power/

    This states that it would require about 10,000 square miles which is orders of magnitute greater than your stated 30.
    OK I have worked the math out before on my own and I'll do it again later, and then post it up. You could probably do it too, its simple changing words pretty much.

    Just start with the total kWh used in the US then change that untill you have the amount of solar panels in sq miles it would take to get to that amount of kWh.

  18. #18
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Tesla Roadsters are all electric cars that have an almost 300 mile range and go 0-60 in 3.7 seconds.
    244 mile range and cost $109,000, and takes 3.5 hours to charge, when using a high power connector.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    244 mile range and cost $109,000, and takes 3.5 hours to charge, when using a high power connector.
    ive kept up on tesla, and they are doing some interesting stuff. they have a good long range plan to develop affordable electric cars, using their supercars to fund future projects. problem comes in on long range applications. i like your 3rd rail idea, but would take a MASSIVE infrastructure investment

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Electricity, a 30sq mile solar panel even with how inefficent they currently are, could power the entire USA.

    Sun powered cars!
    I'm quite confident that you'd need far more than 30sq miles of solar panels to power the entirety of the United States. Maybe a big city, but not a 4000mile-wide country



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