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  1. #1

    One Problem with GW2 and BGs

    I can appreciate the fact that they are doing some different stuff with pvp settings. However, PLEASE PLEASE give us a couple traditional standards. A Black Garden from Rift. A WSG from WoW.

    Ill be completely honest. I am entirely excited about the game overall. However I have a very big problem at same time.

    1. All I am interested in is PvP

    2. I prefer BGS. To me a BG is like 10v10 up to 20v20. 5 man is not BG to me, its Arena.

    3. My least favorite types of BG's involve Vehicles and NPC's. Yuck! No seriously, Im not queued for a BG to go jump in a tank/catapult or go kill some NPC. If I want to kill an NPC, ill go do an instance. If I want to drive a vehicle, Ill go quest.





    When I queue for a BG, I want the following at bare minimum:

    1. At least 10v10. Anything less is too small and is more arena than it is BG. A BG should feel more like a battle than a larger duel. I want to be able to sneak in and out of combat and have an effect from the fringes or I want to be able to wade into the middle of a pack. I know a lack of healers impacts this sort of but still, it can be worked.

    2. I want a small map. I dont want to run a long ways. I dont want to have to sit there for 3-5 minutes before even seeing the enemy. PvP is about fighting other people, not waiting or traveling. WSG/TP and Black Garden are the most ideal maps.

    3. I do not want to see an NPC anywhere, ever, at any time, other than the graveyard rezzer.

    4. I want a clear, concise, simple objective. I do not want a bunch of guess work when i look at a map. I want to be able to look and instantly know what needs to be done. When I look at a map I want it to display like AB, WSG or Black Garden. I do not want to see is an NPC alive. Does a vehicle need repaired. Does a vehicle need to be destroyed? Im not interested in that crap. Could care less about it.

    Now like I said, I can deal with the BGs they have now as its something different and thats cool. But you have GOT to have at least 2 or 3 standard, simple, get down to business of pvp quickly type BGs and right now this game appears to greatly lack there.I hate when bgs turn into a race to the end (AV or IoC) or vehicle crap like SOTA(worst BG ever). I have got to have something to get my instant pvp capture the flag or hold the flag type of fix in.


    Other than that I love everything about the game so far. But this kills me because its by far my single biggest aree of interest of a MMORPG, and I am not seeing it as a part of the game.

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    It's your preference. That doesn't mean the game is flawed.
    I honestly feel that 8v8 is too much for sPvP. I'd rather have an option to practice 5v5.
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  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...?highlight=pvp

    Sounds like you might like the Hot Join better than WvW or 5v5 Arena.

    But really, if you want to make a suggestion, this might not be the best venue....I've never seen a dev on this site. You can try posting on the official forums or they sometimes read and post on reddit or gw2guru.
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  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    I can appreciate the fact that they are doing some different stuff with pvp settings.
    Obviously you can't, and the rest of your post makes that clear.

    If you want to play WSG, go play WSG. There is nothing stopping you from keeping your wow subscription going if you want to play capture the flag type battlegrounds. And honestly there is nothing wrong with getting something different from a few games vs expecting one game to deliver it all.
    This is Guild Wars 2.. lets not turn it into wow remake #547.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Karizee View Post
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...?highlight=pvp

    Sounds like you might like the Hot Join better than WvW or 5v5 Arena.

    But really, if you want to make a suggestion, this might not be the best venue....I've never seen a dev on this site. You can try posting on the official forums or they sometimes read and post on reddit or gw2guru.

    Hey thank you. There is official forums?!? When did they put that up?

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 10:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Snow White View Post
    Obviously you can't, and the rest of your post makes that clear.

    If you want to play WSG, go play WSG. There is nothing stopping you from keeping your wow subscription going if you want to play capture the flag type battlegrounds. And honestly there is nothing wrong with getting something different from a few games vs expecting one game to deliver it all.
    This is Guild Wars 2.. lets not turn it into wow remake #547.

    I CAN appreciate it. But only if its not the only option. Btw, I love everything else about GW2. Its what I am looking for. But I have a right to have the opinion they need to add a couple different flavors into their bgs. Now obviously you dont mind walking into an ice cream palor and there only being one non traditional flavor of ice cream but some people DO like vanilla or chocolate

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    Hey thank you. There is official forums?!? When did they put that up?

    It's up every beta and stress test, down when the game is offline. Link on the official site.
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  7. #7
    Sounds like you would enjoy the new Indie title Forge. PVP based MMO. It's in it's alpha stage atm.

  8. #8
    Mechagnome Proxeneta's Avatar
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    Talk about entitlement, sheesh.

  9. #9
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    I CAN appreciate it. But only if its not the only option. Btw, I love everything else about GW2. Its what I am looking for. But I have a right to have the opinion they need to add a couple different flavors into their bgs. Now obviously you dont mind walking into an ice cream palor and there only being one non traditional flavor of ice cream but some people DO like vanilla or chocolate
    What you're doing is walking into a frozen yogurt shop and demanding they serve you chocolate ice cream instead.

    ANet devs pride them selves on doing everything they possibly can in a different way. They don't want traditional.

    Just think about that for a sec.

  10. #10
    If you like BGs in WoW or Rift because of the scale, you may want to try WvW. GW2 Conquest is the best format for competition in the game's current state. Any time in MMOs where PvP forces all the players into the same area, such as capture the flag or martyr archetypes, it takes away a lot of the skill and variety. The gameplay turns into a chaotic zerg or two lines standing off until one flinches. By limiting the number of players and spreading them out, GW2 preserves the variety of gameplay possibilities. The secondary objectives in GW2 conquest add a dynamic element to the game to stop it from seeming stale. The NPCs work more like the middle NPCs in Port Scion in Rift than in Alterac Valley in WoW.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow White View Post
    What you're doing is walking into a frozen yogurt shop and demanding they serve you chocolate ice cream instead.

    ANet devs pride them selves on doing everything they possibly can in a different way. They don't want traditional.

    Just think about that for a sec.


    Bzzt wrong again. What I am asking for is a car with a color other than orange or lime green. This is a MMORPG that is fantasy based. There is NOTHING wrong with adding a couple bgs like I suggested. If you dont care for them then thats your right but stop pissing all over my thread because you cannot wrap your mind around any criticism of the game whatsoever. You are as bad as the Blizzard fanbois.

    Btw, if they wanted to break the mold and not be traditional than they wouldnt have classes and races and skills that have been used over the past 40 years.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 11:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Exedore View Post
    If you like BGs in WoW or Rift because of the scale, you may want to try WvW. GW2 Conquest is the best format for competition in the game's current state. Any time in MMOs where PvP forces all the players into the same area, such as capture the flag or martyr archetypes, it takes away a lot of the skill and variety. The gameplay turns into a chaotic zerg or two lines standing off until one flinches. By limiting the number of players and spreading them out, GW2 preserves the variety of gameplay possibilities. The secondary objectives in GW2 conquest add a dynamic element to the game to stop it from seeming stale. The NPCs work more like the middle NPCs in Port Scion in Rift than in Alterac Valley in WoW.
    Yeah right now WvWvW is the largest appeal to me as far as pvp goes.
    I do disagree that larger chatoic battles takes away skill. In fact Id say it requires more skill than anything. Thats why I dont like Arena. Its too cookie cutter. Every action has a set reaction. While in say WSG theres alot more to keep track of and a more clever player has more chances to be creative.[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-12 at 11:22 PM ----------
    Last edited by fletchdwb; 2012-08-12 at 11:25 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow White View Post
    What you're doing is walking into a frozen yogurt shop and demanding they serve you chocolate ice cream instead.

    ANet devs pride them selves on doing everything they possibly can in a different way. They don't want traditional.

    Just think about that for a sec.
    While some of his complaints are obviously out of the design of the game, in one spot I do not think he is entirely wrong.

    @ OP:

    I think having more than 8 in each side is a mess for any kind of pvp (unless shooter mainly), is just too hard to have your experience based in luck of the team XD. I think the 8v8 and 5v5 is spot on in choice much easily to control, and even if you can't it's pretty much on the borderline of "We can still win". I do have some "problems" with some of how it's handled, specially the auto-balance feature and how it's easy to leave the game with no penalties (which I'm fine with) but in the end makes every game way harder than it's supposed to.

    Anyhow,

    The most valid point you made so far in my opinion is "I CAN appreciate it. But only if its not the only option." but that - and I pray - Will come in time .

    And if it doesn't come, Ill be disappointed.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    GW1 had a bunch of different ones, I think 12v12 was the biggest.

  14. #14
    I think it'd be pretty interesting to see if a CTF map or black fang type map could be implemented and how well it would work, you know, with the lack of healers and tanks. It'd be a bit harder to run a flag across the map, or hold the fang for half of the game.

    Something like huttball would be pretty cool to see too.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Karizee's Avatar
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    Hunger Royale!!!
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  16. #16
    if you want massive battleground fights. go with a guild with voice chat and into WvW. for esport, in which they want gw2 to become its usually a tight knit group. default and preferable format is a 5 man team.

    looking at your list of things wrong with g2. i think you bought the wrong game....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    I can appreciate the fact that they are doing some different stuff with pvp settings. However, PLEASE PLEASE give us a couple traditional standards. A Black Garden from Rift. A WSG from WoW.

    Ill be completely honest. I am entirely excited about the game overall. However I have a very big problem at same time.

    1. All I am interested in is PvP

    2. I prefer BGS. To me a BG is like 10v10 up to 20v20. 5 man is not BG to me, its Arena.

    3. My least favorite types of BG's involve Vehicles and NPC's. Yuck! No seriously, Im not queued for a BG to go jump in a tank/catapult or go kill some NPC. If I want to kill an NPC, ill go do an instance. If I want to drive a vehicle, Ill go quest.





    When I queue for a BG, I want the following at bare minimum:

    1. At least 10v10. Anything less is too small and is more arena than it is BG. A BG should feel more like a battle than a larger duel. I want to be able to sneak in and out of combat and have an effect from the fringes or I want to be able to wade into the middle of a pack. I know a lack of healers impacts this sort of but still, it can be worked.

    2. I want a small map. I dont want to run a long ways. I dont want to have to sit there for 3-5 minutes before even seeing the enemy. PvP is about fighting other people, not waiting or traveling. WSG/TP and Black Garden are the most ideal maps.

    3. I do not want to see an NPC anywhere, ever, at any time, other than the graveyard rezzer.

    4. I want a clear, concise, simple objective. I do not want a bunch of guess work when i look at a map. I want to be able to look and instantly know what needs to be done. When I look at a map I want it to display like AB, WSG or Black Garden. I do not want to see is an NPC alive. Does a vehicle need repaired. Does a vehicle need to be destroyed? Im not interested in that crap. Could care less about it.

    Now like I said, I can deal with the BGs they have now as its something different and thats cool. But you have GOT to have at least 2 or 3 standard, simple, get down to business of pvp quickly type BGs and right now this game appears to greatly lack there.I hate when bgs turn into a race to the end (AV or IoC) or vehicle crap like SOTA(worst BG ever). I have got to have something to get my instant pvp capture the flag or hold the flag type of fix in.


    Other than that I love everything about the game so far. But this kills me because its by far my single biggest aree of interest of a MMORPG, and I am not seeing it as a part of the game.
    Your entire post reeks of entitlement and can be used as a prime example of how not to provide feedback or ask for changes in a game.

    EDIT: And it seems like you didn't even explore all the PvP options in the game before coming here and making this mess of a post.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    Btw, if they wanted to break the mold and not be traditional than they wouldnt have classes and races and skills that have been used over the past 40 years.
    shit, you mean like mesmers and engineers?
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    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  19. #19
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    If they implement CTF at all, it will likely be a secondary objective.

    In other words, it'll be more like EOTS than WSG.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by fletchdwb View Post
    I do disagree that larger chatoic battles takes away skill. In fact Id say it requires more skill than anything. Thats why I dont like Arena. Its too cookie cutter. Every action has a set reaction. While in say WSG theres alot more to keep track of and a more clever player has more chances to be creative.
    GW2 Conquest is definitely not the contained Deathmatch of arena. The best analogy for GW2 sPvP is to Battle of Gilneas in WoW, except the size is a bit smaller and there are only 10-16 players (5v5 for tournament, up to 8v8 for hot join).

    The reason WSG is a failure in WoW is that if you play at an organized level, melee is at a severe disadvantage. The more players you put into the game, the more power melee needs in order to not die to focus fire as they close the gap. But then at an individual level, melee is too powerful. That power struggle in addition to the single objective is why all the range group up and you have a stand-off in WSG or other capture the flag maps. Once you have more objectives than teams, you're not stuck with a stand-off, since part of the team can always make a move to throw off the balance without guaranteeing themselves a loss.

    Further, CTF facilitates the need for specialized roles, which limits class selection and builds. You need a flag carrier, and only one spec of one class is best at that. When battles are small and there are different ways to win, those fixed roles are less meaningful. That allows for more variety.

    ArenaNet wants a style of PvP that's good for both casual and competitive play. If you look at Conquest in Rated BGs in WoW, they play a lot like they do at the casual level, though a bit more organized. CTF maps definitely do not play the same way.
    Last edited by Exedore; 2012-08-13 at 12:00 AM.

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