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  1. #261

  2. #262
    Field Marshal Pisshands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outtahand View Post
    Jordan>Bird>Johnson
    I reluctantly agree with this base assertion, not necessarily that they are #1, #2 and #3. Hard to argue against, though.
    I also insist that Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell are within the conversation.

  3. #263
    I still don't know what to make of Russell. He seems like a completely anachronistic figure. His defensive and rebounding dominance in his time is pretty clear, there raves about him from journalists and teammates are pretty clear, and the titles tell a hell of a story. At the same time, I have a hard time buying a 6'9", 215 pound center that wasn't particularly great offensively as being one of the five or so best players ever. I can't even imagine that he'd be among the most valuable players in the league today; he's smaller than Lebron, how would his skill set translate? Trying to compare him to modern NBA players, for me, is like trying to compare Cy Young to Roger Clemens. It just doesn't work.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by superstarz View Post
    i would have to say Michael Jordan. Simply because of the way he dominated the league in his time.
    and the way he revolutionized the game.
    and when LeBron James retires he would be almost at Jordans level of greatness.


    what do you guys think
    I like Michael Jordan too though I watch basketball very few times, and even many people like me or people who never watched basketball will say Michael Jordan because of his greatness in the sport field.

  5. #265

  6. #266
    The Lightbringer DEATHETERNAL's Avatar
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    Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'Neal (because they are the only NBA players whose names I know lol, not because of anything substantive).
    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
    Revelation 6:8

  7. #267
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I still don't know what to make of Russell. He seems like a completely anachronistic figure. His defensive and rebounding dominance in his time is pretty clear, there raves about him from journalists and teammates are pretty clear, and the titles tell a hell of a story. At the same time, I have a hard time buying a 6'9", 215 pound center that wasn't particularly great offensively as being one of the five or so best players ever. I can't even imagine that he'd be among the most valuable players in the league today; he's smaller than Lebron, how would his skill set translate? Trying to compare him to modern NBA players, for me, is like trying to compare Cy Young to Roger Clemens. It just doesn't work.
    Russell is essentially the stone age LeBron. He would do anything it took to make his teammates better. Anything. If that meant running the offense through him he did it. If it meant coaching he did it. If it meant shutting down the interior every night, he did it. He had one goal. Win. That was it. He didn't care about stats, NBA 1st teams, MVPs or anything else. He cared only about making his teammates better so that they could win. And they did. They destroyed everyone until they finally started to age and Wilt's team got a lucky shot in on them. Who knows if he had the raw athleticism to translate to today's game, but he had the work ethic to always make himself relevant in any age of the game.

    Actually, a better comparison is probably Tim Duncan. He would basically be a shorter version of Duncan.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    Yeah but Jordan didn't have that equal and I don't mean he was so bad ass he didn't have an equal but Bird had Magic both are top 5 players of all time. Kobe has Lebron both could be put in that mention or will be at one point and Wilt had Russel which are the 2 best Centers of all time. Jordan didn't have anybody in there prime that was his equal Magic got HIV and Bird was getting to old think T.Duncan (still able to produce but not like they could in there prime). Yeah you had Hakeem,Malone,Ewing,and Robinson but they were centers it's like comparing Steve Nash to Kevin Garnet...Barkley was the only person I guess that could have been his rival but even then Jordan's teams was so much better then Barkley's. Jordan had Pippen which is considered a top 50 player who did Barkley have Dan Marley ehh hes good but not great. To tell you how good the Bulls were they went to the finals without Jordan... today's Lakers don't get to the finals without Kobe, today's Thunder doesn't get to the finals without Durant, and today's Bulls don't get to the finals without Rose same goes for Magic with D.Howard. I'm just saying it most teams had one really good player or even great player but didn't have a great player and 2-3 HoF's back then.
    The thing was kobe was never the best in the league ever.
    in 2000 - 2003 shaq was the best.
    04 - 07 tim duncan/mcgrady
    08 -2k13 lebron james
    kobe had a few good years but he was never the most dominate player in the league.
    he just had stacked teams to make him look better
    look what happened when kobe didnt have a stacked team?
    he didnt make the playoffs.


    lebron at the age of 22 carried a team of scrubs to the finals and lost.
    the people blamed lebron saying he choked.

    kobe in his prime in 2005 - 2007 didnt make it to the playoffs and next year got bounced first round.
    the people blamed kobes team

    moral of the story kobe takes credit for wins but doesnt take blame for loses
    lebron on the other hand gets blamed for everything

  9. #269
    Wow, this thread got necro'ed!

    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Russell is essentially the stone age LeBron. He would do anything it took to make his teammates better. Anything. If that meant running the offense through him he did it. If it meant coaching he did it. If it meant shutting down the interior every night, he did it. He had one goal. Win. That was it. He didn't care about stats, NBA 1st teams, MVPs or anything else. He cared only about making his teammates better so that they could win. And they did. They destroyed everyone until they finally started to age and Wilt's team got a lucky shot in on them. Who knows if he had the raw athleticism to translate to today's game, but he had the work ethic to always make himself relevant in any age of the game.

    Actually, a better comparison is probably Tim Duncan. He would basically be a shorter version of Duncan.
    I think Duncan's the perfect comparison. Perhaps a bit springier, at least as a young guy, but less effective as a scorer.

    So, where does that put him then? His dominance in his day was greater, but I don't think there's much of anyone that believes Russell was actually a better basketball player than what Duncan's been. Personally, Duncan comes in around 5th or 6th for me, but I rate him higher than everyone else. So do I put Russell ahead or behind him on a list? Ultimately, I guess I say behind, but I can't really defend that.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenixdown View Post
    Greatness in the NBA seems to be measured by rings. On that premise alone, only one man can be called the greatest ever.

    BILL RUSSELL

    Nobody in ANY sport in the United States, ANY, comes even remotely close to his eleven titles. When you have more rings than fingers, you are the greatest.
    If you want to get technical, Scotty Bowman has 12 Stanley Cup rings. As for the topic at hand, MJ is the greatest.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    IDK Jordan is Jordan yes we know but Magic was a more complete player and nobody will argue with that.
    Magic would argue with that.

  12. #272
    Epic! Masqerader's Avatar
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    my top 3 will always be

    Jordan, Johnson and Bird

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by kabookiejoez View Post
    my top 3 will always be

    Jordan, Johnson and Bird
    Why no Chamberlain?...
    Keep The Beats!

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by kabookiejoez View Post
    my top 3 will always be

    Jordan, Johnson and Bird
    Lebron once his career is over will be 2nd to jordan if not better than jordan

  15. #275
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Russel is great but he did let Wilt score a shit ton of points on him just about every time they played. Lebron doesn't let somebody score 50 on him nether does Jordan but Wilt dominated Russel he even said so himself.

  16. #276

  17. #277
    Epic! Masqerader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheImmortalLordAtlas View Post
    Why no Chamberlain?...

    Wasn't alive when he played.

  18. #278
    Fluffy Kitten conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheImmortalLordAtlas View Post
    Why no Chamberlain?...
    1) Chamberlain was one of the most selfish players to ever play the game.
    2) Ever seen Wilt take a free throw? Ya that is why. The guy was the definition of a liability at the end of games. He makes Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan look like good end game pieces.
    3) Wilt stopped playing when he got to 4 or 5 fouls. Every time, without fail. He refused to foul out so he would just stop even trying to play defense.
    4)He was a coach killer and a team killer. No one wanted to play with him. Best anecdote, the Lakers had a chance to trade for Wilt in his prime. Deal was in place and the Lakers players voted against bringing him in 9 to 3 because he was that big of a pariah.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 08:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by skarsguard View Post
    Russel is great but he did let Wilt score a shit ton of points on him just about every time they played. Lebron doesn't let somebody score 50 on him nether does Jordan but Wilt dominated Russel he even said so himself.
    And Wilt beat him in a relevant series exactly once when Russel's team was starting to fade out of their primes iirc. You can score all you want, it is irrelevant if you don't play team basketball and Wilt didn't play team basketball until the end of his career.

  19. #279
    Moderator Skarsguard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    1) Chamberlain was one of the most selfish players to ever play the game.
    2) Ever seen Wilt take a free throw? Ya that is why. The guy was the definition of a liability at the end of games. He makes Dwight Howard and DeAndre Jordan look like good end game pieces.
    3) Wilt stopped playing when he got to 4 or 5 fouls. Every time, without fail. He refused to foul out so he would just stop even trying to play defense.
    4)He was a coach killer and a team killer. No one wanted to play with him. Best anecdote, the Lakers had a chance to trade for Wilt in his prime. Deal was in place and the Lakers players voted against bringing him in 9 to 3 because he was that big of a pariah.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 08:46 AM ----------



    And Wilt beat him in a relevant series exactly once when Russel's team was starting to fade out of their primes iirc. You can score all you want, it is irrelevant if you don't play team basketball and Wilt didn't play team basketball until the end of his career.
    Yes con but Russel always had the better team around him till Wilt got to the lakers. I'm just saying Russel himself said the Wilt dominated him and willed his way on him.

    1. Most selfish.. Jordan was pretty selfish as well and an Asshat to boot (look at his HoF speech that has selfish written all over it.)
    2. Most Centers suck at free throws nothing new here.
    3. Most players when they get to 4-5 fouls stop playing as hard or get sat so they don't get bounced out on an accidental foul
    4. I don't know what that has to do with the greatest player ever I mean if Kobe didn't have Phil he would have went through more coaches then he has now.

    Shouldn't matter how relevant the series or game is if you're letting a guy score at will on you then your not this great player and defender that everybody says you are. Tim Duncan wouldn't let somebody score 50 on him at the same position esp more then once if it did happen.

  20. #280
    It's pretty difficult to say who will be better, lebron or MJ. As much as I dislike him, I think lebron will be better in the long run. He isn't my favorite player by a long shot(anyone who commands a TV special to announce where he is going is a joke imo) but the kid has gotten so much better since when he entered the league-it's scary. Main reason I think lebron will take the cake on MJ is pretty much all due to modern day science/medicine/technology. Lebron was a wrecking ball when he came out of school let alone after he started hitting the gym as part of his paycheck.

    The amount of science going to sculpting professional athletes its mind-boggling and impressive in the same breath. Kinda scary really =/

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