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  1. #221
    Also if we're assumed to use Ascension for maximum DPS, that'd lower the threshold where haste becomes less desirable. We'd probably be stacking crit.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Illitti View Post
    Also if we're assumed to use Ascension for maximum DPS, that'd lower the threshold where haste becomes less desirable. We'd probably be stacking crit.
    Yes and no. While we'd have higher passive regen we'd also have a 1 chi higher cap. The 1 chi higher cap comes heavily into play with FoF offsetting chi onto an odd number for 25 (20) seconds. The increased chi cap would actually raise the point at which haste is diminished, but not nearly as much as the regen lowers the point. I'll be doing some simc testing looking at the new ascension later to see exactly how large the effect is.

  3. #223
    Mmmh, I'm not so sure the calculations are so "straightforward" ... It's already pretty easy to energy cap yourself (be it during BL, many mastery procs, movement phases, etc) and when you energy cap the whole "energy regen buff" is wasted, whereas Chi Brew & Power Strikes are either onUse or onNextAttack. And that without taking haste into account and energy regen scaling.

    Imho, we are already pretty much GCD capped, and I'm not sure whether or not we'll have all the free GCDs to use this "new" energy in Jabs. Remains to be seen.

  4. #224
    You should not forget that 40 energy = 2 Chi is only for WW. For BrM the value is a bit lower, lets just say 40 energy = 1,4 Chi (just a guess, it gets lower with higher haste and higher with higher hit / expertise till hardcap). So, if they keep the mechanic of energy regen in this tier, there are only 3 possibilities (concerning only BrM and WW):
    - very good for WW, in line for BrM
    - in line for WW, very bad for BrM
    - good for WW, bad for BrM
    So, if they only change the values, the third is probably the most likely possibility.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Alviarin View Post
    Mmmh, I'm not so sure the calculations are so "straightforward" ... It's already pretty easy to energy cap yourself (be it during BL, many mastery procs, movement phases, etc) and when you energy cap the whole "energy regen buff" is wasted, whereas Chi Brew & Power Strikes are either onUse or onNextAttack. And that without taking haste into account and energy regen scaling.

    Imho, we are already pretty much GCD capped, and I'm not sure whether or not we'll have all the free GCDs to use this "new" energy in Jabs. Remains to be seen.
    WW currently has a 6.05% overflow of energy in the sim.
    11 * 60 / 40 / 1.0605 * 2 = 31.12 chi/minute
    31.12 chi/minute * 0.15 = 4.668 chi/minute increase. Even if you cap lets say, 4% more and bring the overflow to 10%, you're still looking at a 4.5 increase. You'd have to get pretty high on overflow before it gets anywhere near the other two talent choices currently, but on some fights I can see how you'd easily cap constantly, ie spirit world gara'jal. I HIGHLY expect for this to be changed to 8% energy regen to be in line with the other talents.
    Last edited by gahddo; 2012-10-27 at 02:15 PM.

  6. #226
    Sup.

    So I'm currently leveling my Monk with the aim of going Windwalker DPS PvE at 90. I'm lvl 49 atm, enjoying it tremendously compared to leveling most other classes (though this is probably due to the 50% exp buff... which I have up almost constantly).

    Now. That priority list seems really effing daunting. How does the WW play out at 90? Is it as complex as it seems? How punishing is screwing up? How fluent does it feel?

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by CHNurf View Post
    Sup.

    So I'm currently leveling my Monk with the aim of going Windwalker DPS PvE at 90. I'm lvl 49 atm, enjoying it tremendously compared to leveling most other classes (though this is probably due to the 50% exp buff... which I have up almost constantly).

    Now. That priority list seems really effing daunting. How does the WW play out at 90? Is it as complex as it seems? How punishing is screwing up? How fluent does it feel?
    It feels quite smooth. For me personally the hardest thing is remembering to keep Tiger Palm buff up during points where a lot of movement and/or dps downtime is forced, but that will be pretty much a non-issue in 5.1 anyway.

    The priority list when written out looks daunting, but once you're actually playing it, it starts to feel pretty natural.

  8. #228
    question, at lvl 78 my spinning fire blossom hits for around 50 to 80% harder than blackout kick. so i been spamming that in between keeping flash kick, and tiger palm up.
    is tat always the case?

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by JBNagis View Post
    question, at lvl 78 my spinning fire blossom hits for around 50 to 80% harder than blackout kick. so i been spamming that in between keeping flash kick, and tiger palm up.
    is tat always the case?
    Nope. Once you get to higher levels (Mid cata+) Blackout Kick will suddenly start outscaling Spinning Fire Blossom by quite a bit.

    Enjoy the nice SFB damage while it lasts

  10. #230
    thank you. i like blackout kick because it stacks brew a lot better than blossom. and its more monkish.

  11. #231
    my monk is lvl 50 but this guide still helped a lot thank you.

  12. #232
    Mechagnome Jaja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHNurf View Post
    Sup.

    So I'm currently leveling my Monk with the aim of going Windwalker DPS PvE at 90. I'm lvl 49 atm, enjoying it tremendously compared to leveling most other classes (though this is probably due to the 50% exp buff... which I have up almost constantly).

    Now. That priority list seems really effing daunting. How does the WW play out at 90? Is it as complex as it seems? How punishing is screwing up? How fluent does it feel?
    Like most rotations practice makes perfect. Yes it is punishing if Tiger Palm stacks fall (5.1 GG no worries) and also if you let your energy cap. Not using RSK on CD will also yield a damage loss. Get the priority right without having to think about it and i'm sure by 90 muscle memory will be good for new keybinds and it is actually quiet fluent to play.

    Good Luck

  13. #233
    haha I came in about SFB outdamaging Black out kick specially considering it costs only one chi. I'm only 70 so glad to know mid cata it will fix itself.

    Been having fun so far as WW and brewmaster, dropped in to say thanks you for the guide! its very well done!

    I just remembered what I was looking for: at how many target should we switch to aoe rotation? I'd say 3 but low level dungeons =/= lv 90 stuff

  14. #234
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Is there any way to get a trinket list? I've got LFR Bottle, Jade Bandit Figurine (same as Shado-Pan Revered), the Brewfest Coaster and the Relic of Xuen (obvious choice). I mean, on paper the JBF should win out, but the problem is that it's a haste proc (or use, whatever) - and that leads to overcapping energy if you're unlucky. I'd much rather have a crit proc or the likes, or passive haste and agility proc, but alas, I don't. Question is whether LFR Bottle is better than the JBF?

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damax View Post
    I just remembered what I was looking for: at how many target should we switch to aoe rotation? I'd say 3 but low level dungeons =/= lv 90 stuff
    At 4+ targets you should use the aoe rotation; anything less and you should just go for single target damage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 01:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Avalya View Post
    Is there any way to get a trinket list? I've got LFR Bottle, Jade Bandit Figurine (same as Shado-Pan Revered), the Brewfest Coaster and the Relic of Xuen (obvious choice). I mean, on paper the JBF should win out, but the problem is that it's a haste proc (or use, whatever) - and that leads to overcapping energy if you're unlucky. I'd much rather have a crit proc or the likes, or passive haste and agility proc, but alas, I don't. Question is whether LFR Bottle is better than the JBF?
    There's a trinket list a few pages back, which says hc trinkets > xuen > normal trinkets > lfr trinkets > valor/raid trash trinket / blue trinkts > brewfest trinket.

    So go with Relic of Xuen and LFR Bottle.

  16. #236
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Alrighty, thanks. The JBF doesn't seem worthwhile for tanking either to be honest, the haste use effect seems somewhat wasted most of the time.

  17. #237
    So, I'm questioning the ability rotation that everyone seems to agree upon. Apparently, it is to cast RSK as much as possible, ie the easiest judge of a good WW monk was looking at how many times they cast RSK, and how many times they could have cast RSK that fight. However, looking at the top logs for Gara'jal heroic, most of the monks were sitting on their RSK CDs a lot. Here's the rank 1 WW monk for Gara'jal heroic 25: worldoflogs(DOT)com/reports/rt-cu1kez1s1ucku7zm/details/31/?s=2838&e=3190. He cast RSK 23 times, in a 5:51 fight, he could have potentially cast it ~43 times. So, based on these numbers it seems he is only using RSK to keep the 15 second debuff on the boss, rather than on CD for damage. Why is that? And what is he doing instead? Or am I missing something. RSK hits harder than Blackout Kick for the same chi cost. Looking at Mihir's highest ranking on Gara'jal, he casted RSK 16 times over a 5:24 fight.

    TL;DR high ranking monks aren't casting RSK as much as they could even though it's supposedly to be done on CD???

    (New account so I can't post links)

  18. #238
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagzz View Post
    So, I'm questioning the ability rotation that everyone seems to agree upon. Apparently, it is to cast RSK as much as possible, ie the easiest judge of a good WW monk was looking at how many times they cast RSK, and how many times they could have cast RSK that fight. However, looking at the top logs for Gara'jal heroic, most of the monks were sitting on their RSK CDs a lot. Here's the rank 1 WW monk for Gara'jal heroic 25: worldoflogs(DOT)com/reports/rt-cu1kez1s1ucku7zm/details/31/?s=2838&e=3190. He cast RSK 23 times, in a 5:51 fight, he could have potentially cast it ~43 times. So, based on these numbers it seems he is only using RSK to keep the 15 second debuff on the boss, rather than on CD for damage. Why is that? And what is he doing instead? Or am I missing something. RSK hits harder than Blackout Kick for the same chi cost. Looking at Mihir's highest ranking on Gara'jal, he casted RSK 16 times over a 5:24 fight.

    TL;DR high ranking monks aren't casting RSK as much as they could even though it's supposedly to be done on CD???

    (New account so I can't post links)
    I believe that Gara'jal is not the best fight to check RSK casts, as, I believe that the spirit realm messes up the logs totally, unless the monk is the one doing the logs. If you look at other bosses I'm sure that it's cast almost on cooldown for most, if not all high ranking monks.

    @Mihir I see you've gemmed to about 6k haste and then crit, is there any reason for that? How much haste should I aim for? I've heard both sides of crit being better from a certain point, and crit being better altogether. Is it mostly what you feel comfortable that you should aim for - in your case 6k?

  19. #239
    I realize that but I know for a fact that the monk in the log I linked never went in the Spirit Realm and neither did the logger. But anyways, yea it's not a god example of a fight, but just in general, my same questions apply.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Tagzz View Post
    I realize that but I know for a fact that the monk in the log I linked never went in the Spirit Realm and neither did the logger. But anyways, yea it's not a god example of a fight, but just in general, my same questions apply.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/m...1/?s=148&e=494

    I ranked #2 for 10H(1 that night, damn you whoever you are that notched me down), and I didn't really taper off RSK at any point. Sometimes if the ghost was about to die since most of it would be overkill but that was about it.
    I don't see why you would otherwise.
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