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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    At the moment, Windwalker is not a full 30% lower DPS than any other class. With a consistent DPS like ours, having an additional +20-+25% damage (minimizing mastery) with an ~80% uptime will put us in pre-nerf Fire Mage territory.
    You misunderstand. I am talking about personal average dps, not compared to other classes. You would be doing only slightly higher than your normal average dps during Tigereye Brew, because the uptime is so high.

    Our dps will be balanced around whatever the Tigereye uptime we have. I'd rather have a lower uptime on Tigereye Brew than have our overall damage nerfed when they notice that WW damage is higher than intended. The high uptime just makes it a necessary buff to manage, not a burst cooldown at all.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    At the moment, Windwalker is not a full 30% lower DPS than any other class. With a consistent DPS like ours, having an additional +20-+25% damage (minimizing mastery) with an ~80% uptime will put us in pre-nerf Fire Mage territory.
    You're right if it goes live in its current state but I'm sure it won't.

    The concern is that they are going to nerf the wrong thing. I'd rather have a nice burst cooldown than a Savage Roar type buff to maintain.

  3. #483

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by prestilence View Post
    Yea the staff is going to be better for a few reasons.
    Sha touched gem slot
    Greater overall stats from the staff than the LFR + 463 weapons.

    2h=+speed
    1h=+damage

    so the 2h is gained stats + faster-lower melee damage
    so the 1h is two windsong procs + slower- higher melee damage

    The balance between the staff bonus speed and the actual speed difference of the staff weapon to the fist weapons balances itself out
    which is why the 1h fist weapons surpass the 2h weapons.

    Examples, (probably not actual): Staff speed 3.5
    fist speed 2
    that 1.5 difference in attack time is balanced out by the staff bonus attack speed
    making only 1 seperation, damage.

    So the choice is take a weapon that attacks just as fast as my 1handers?
    or take a weapon somewhat as fast as my staff, can proc windsong 2x and stackable, and the passive has higher damage

    There are more things to consider in maximizing DPS than just ilvl.

    (again, the examples data is a quess.. no sources at this time to make an accurate comparrison. But I do know there is large difference between staff attack speed and a 1 hander)

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-12 at 06:12 PM ----------



    Correct. I'd say that Gara'kal (H) + Claws (REG + gem) > Gao-Rei (H)with gem for overall dps.
    quick burst, questing, ganking, killing trash = staff
    overall boss fight= Duel weild for sure.
    I've been gearing my offset as WW.

    I got LFR Gao-Rei and a LFR Claws. I can get a 500 agi gem for either. Is it Gara'kal(LFR) + Claws (LFR + gem) ----> Gao-Rei (LFR + gem)
    What about REG Gara'kal? I didn't see those in the list.

  5. #485
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    Reg Gara'kal MH + LFR claws OH. We scale incredibly well with weapon damage, especially as Dual Wield.

    With DW, just place the highest iLev weapon in your MH, lowest ilev in your OH. Gem is a flat Agi bonus, not weap damage bonus - and therefore has no bearing on which hand to place it in.

  6. #486
    Has anyone done any theorycrafting around the idea of replacing LFR Bottle with Arrowflight/Woundripper Medallion
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  7. #487
    Using simcraft stat weights from Sim 510-8 for T14N-1H, I have:

    3.14 Agi
    1.28 Crit
    1.63 Haste
    0.92 Mastery

    With Haste reforging on the bottle, this puts Arrowflight/Woundripper 0/2 worse than LFR Bottle 0/2. Not by much though, 4845.28 for Medallion and 4954.74 for Bottle. It's a 109.46 difference.

    WW Trinket spreadsheet



  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Using simcraft stat weights from Sim 510-8 for T14N-1H, I have:

    3.14 Agi
    1.28 Crit
    1.63 Haste
    0.92 Mastery

    With Haste reforging on the bottle, this puts Arrowflight/Woundripper 0/2 worse than LFR Bottle 0/2. Not by much though, 4845.28 for Medallion and 4954.74 for Bottle. It's a 109.46 difference.[/URL]
    My only issue with that is the fact that when Simcraft shows DW Windwalker as being in the top ~5-7 specs, the stats on the theorical character are <4000 haste and >8000 crit. Aren't the subjective weights of those two in flux at the moment?
    Currently trying to experiences all classes at 100. Count so far: 3.

  9. #489
    I'm just showing you the math from what SimC shows. Personally I use 2/2 Relic and 0/2 N Bottle. Top monks use H: Terror and H: Bottle.



  10. #490
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    TheWindWalker: the problem is that haste is going to be strong in some situations than others. I actually disagree with the weights that Prom uses (which is fine, as he made them editable for that purpose) - I typically use a slightly-lower stat weight for Haste than for Crit. Mathematically, 1 haste rating IS greater than 1 crit rating (425 haste for 1%, 600 crit rating for 1% crit) [noting that it's this mathematical difference that can cause different weights], however we've all noticed higher numbers when settling for around 3600 - 3800 haste and prioritizing crit after that point. (actually, I've stopped running my sims as Patchwerks - I typically use another module, such as HelterSkelter, as I noticed it gives slightly better results for my stat weights)

    Personally, I use the crappy Hawkmaster's and a 1/2 Relic (I am prioritizing my VP right now to upgrade weapons - still waiting on Claws or at least another Garakal to drop). However, H Terror and H Bottle are incredibly strong right now [just like Prom already mentioned].

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    I actually disagree with the weights that Prom uses (which is fine, as he made them editable for that purpose)
    Yeah, I just used the weights that came from SimC. They will be different for each person, which is why I have them editable. As you know, I made the sheet require a little input before it works properly. As long as you put in the right requested information, it shouldn't matter which sim you run.

    Any reason you're still using Hawkmasters over the others?



  12. #492
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Yeah, I just used the weights that came from SimC. They will be different for each person, which is why I have them editable. As you know, I made the sheet require a little input before it works properly. As long as you put in the right requested information, it shouldn't matter which sim you run.

    Any reason you're still using Hawkmasters over the others?
    Drops, honestly. I'm prioritized right now for H Bottle (another reason to not spend VP right now for the DO trinket), but so far in our 25 we've only had around 3 drop (and I can't tell you how many times I've received the chest). My VP are also prioritized right now to upgraded H Claws once I'm able to receive them - I'm 3rd on the list for them, so it's better for me right now to save up, per se. Otherwise, I'd probably be using the Dominance Offensive one. (Obviously, I have spent some VP to upgrade my hands, as it just made sense at the time). I'm not capped out for this week, though, so I am considering doing the final upgrade on my Relic (I foresee using it for a while, given the limited amount of Terror drops) and then picking up the DO trinket. Still, though, there's also the chance I could finally get lucky and see another Garakal drop - but I don't think I'll be wasting upgrades on that, given how often the Claws drop in 25m.

    Though, your sheet did give some interesting results - it's currently ranking the 463 Hit/Agi Proc pretty highly for me, even above Hawkmaster's. I may grind one out, and upgrade it, and then experiment from there. Hawkmaster's feels like an absolute thorn in my side right now, other than using a 2H - plus, being an engineer, I am absolutely terrible at using it when it comes off of CD.
    Last edited by Callimonk; 2013-01-10 at 06:48 PM.

  13. #493
    Did you adjust the hit value on that trinket though? If you use the default value that SimC shows, yeah... it's going to be higher than a lot of trinkets. That's actually why if you notice I have the Hit/Exp weights to be equal to the highest secondary stat (haste), so it doesn't throw it off. It still might be off even with that, who knows.



  14. #494
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    Ah, gotcha - in that case, tonight I'll run a sim to get more concrete stat weights for those. The spreadsheet doesn't like Excel 2003, so I'll also wait until I get home to run it again (where I have 2010).

    I still need to grind out some stat weightings on pre-raid gear, anyway. Seems like a good use of time. Is Chardev up and running again? Time to check.

  15. #495
    Chardev is still broken, and not updated fully. It would makes sense why it doesn't like 2003, as I used 2007 to make it :P UPDATE YOUR STUFF!

    If you get a pre-raid setup going, let me know the information I need and I'll add it to the sheet.



  16. #496
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Chardev is still broken, and not updated fully. It would makes sense why it doesn't like 2003, as I used 2007 to make it :P UPDATE YOUR STUFF!

    If you get a pre-raid setup going, let me know the information I need and I'll add it to the sheet.
    Yah - all I have right now is the spreadsheet I put in the guide on EJ (link goes to the spreadsheet). I just never went from there to do the stuff to it that I wanted to do, thanks to Chardev going down hah :/ + being lazy, + every other excuse I have right now.

    Seriously, though. Would really like Chardev to be updated - I'd hate to feel inclined to do it myself. :P

  17. #497
    This answered a few of the questions I had about S/E/F ability

    It is a cleave ability. However, it's actually more accurately described as a "multidot". This is because they are not restricted to melee range, so we are the only melee spec who can benefit from this damage increase on fights like Will of the Emperor (when other melee can not cleave).

    Your spirits will not mirror your single-target abilities if you are targeting the same mob that your spirit is. So on single-target patchwerk fights you will NOT use Storm, Earth, and Fire.

    Also interesting. And one more tidbit in case it's not clear: they don't mirror your damage directly, they mirror your abilities. If you RSK, they will RSK. You might crit, they might get dodged. All of their damaging abilities will show in your combat log as "Fire Spirit: Rising Sun Kick" or "Earth Spirit: Fists of Fury". Based on RNG your elemental can do more damage than you or less. It's not a strict mirror.

    Borrowed from the Elitist Forum. All credit to the authors.

    So the next question is if they only mirror our abilities, do they mirror the stats? Are they static as to when they are summoned, or do the stats up date fluidly?
    Last edited by Woeful; 2013-01-10 at 07:21 PM.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    Would really like Chardev to be updated - I'd hate to feel inclined to do it myself. :P
    You could, technically, use wowreforge to do it. Although, if you want upgraded VP items you have to manually adjust the stats on them (but it doesn't take into consideration the primary stats, sadly). Could also use AMR, even though it's semi-mediocre... it is the only working site with VP upgrades turned on.



  19. #499
    Dreadlord Rocheku's Avatar
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    Argh, im gonna assume that heroic gara'kal + normal claws is better then normal gao'rei right?

  20. #500
    Moderator Callimonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocheku View Post
    Argh, im gonna assume that heroic gara'kal + normal claws is better then normal gao'rei right?
    Yes.

    DW > 2H, plus garakal heroic has a higher item level than normal gao'rei.

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