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  1. #661
    Are WW really that bad / underrepresented in T15?

    We have less than 100 ranks on Council of Elders.

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...r_Monk/?page=3

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverStop View Post
    Are WW really that bad / underrepresented in T15?

    We have less than 100 ranks on Council of Elders.

    http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/play...r_Monk/?page=3
    No, thats just WoL being slow, and the first week isn't even over yet.

  3. #663
    From testing so far, what i have noticed, 7k haste is doable without using FoF or Chi wave, you can dump most of the energy if you make the right decisions, the problem i have is when you want to use EB you cap almost immidately, the energy flow is jus too fast most of the time.

    on terms of mastery, im finding that after the nerf is so hard to maintain high dps on fights, im pooling stacks past 10 most of the time to aline them with my trinkets for maxium output, aslong as you dont go over 20 its fine, but even doing that its not alot of dps, ive noticed ive lost around 10k in total to now from before 5.1 (i used to be top 10 on WoL everything 10 man hc).

    I have tried gemming both agility and haste, i can say agility is not the way to go from testing, the damage on average was lower than with a high haste build, though i do think 7k haste is too much, i wouldnt worry about using FoF at all, since the same problems arise, if you have to move, its a dps loss, theres also the fact in them 3 secs you gain far too much energy, not saying you cant manage it but if you get a cb proc its really hard to deal with. Chi wave im not finding to be that useful, im using it more towards like we used to do/still do with flying serpent kick on low energy. otherwise im jus not using it, i can get probably 1-2 less EBs off than max atm with how fights are going, its really hard to use it off the start, well even 30 secs in to get maxium use out of it.

    on terms of Accession vs Power strikes, as far as we know Accession gives more chi per min than powerstrikes, so i will not try changing that, since overall we would benefit from a high haste for a loss of chi, which seems like we would be wasting stats.

    Overall going to try around about 6k haste build, using FoF like i used to, ie low energy situation with more than 3 secs on tiger palm and 5-6 secs on rsk cd, try and get back to using EB on cd, but still delaying 10 - 15 secs at the start of the fight. I do think getting used to a mastery build is definately the way to go after haste though, we may be low now, but im pretty damn sure soon as our item level increases we'll become top dps again jus with how the scaling of that sort of damage increase will work.

    On other things, that 10% nerf i feel was too early, sure our dps was high before it, but they should of atleast gave us a bit of time to gear up before changing it so like every other dps doesnt roflstomp us on meters

    (sorry for if this is hard to read, Dyslexic ><)

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post

    So some of our options are the following:

    1) Low haste (4-5k) with Ascension, stack mastery OR crit, Chi Wave and FoF on cooldown.
    2) Medium haste (5-6k) with Power Strikes, stack mastery OR crit, Chi Wave and FoF on cooldown.
    3) High haste (6-7k) with Ascension, stack mastery, rarely use Chi Wave or FoF.
    4) Higher haste (7-8k) with Power Strikes, stack mastery, rarely use Chi Wave or FoF.

    In terms of scaling I think that options 3 or 4 will scale best with our BiS gear. I think the haste/mastery synergy is held back by the efficient usage of weaving in lots of Chi Wave and Fists of Fury. We want to keep mashing BoK to have good TEB stack generation so that our mastery has a high uptime.

    Thanks for this, it's useful to have it encapsulated in that manner as our stat balance and talents are tied very closely together and it makes a big impact on our dps. I had to do a fair amount of reforging and talent changes following 5.2 but I have managed to remove the initial dps loss - WW monks have to optimize their characters very carefully.

  5. #665
    So on Live i have come to feeling that Mastery still isn't that powerful enough. On first four bosses in 25man on WoL my rankings on all of them have been 70th-91st. When i decided to look at the top 5 guys they all seemed to gear for around 6.6k haste and Crit ~= Mastery. Choosing Crit ahead of Mastery. I guess a full T15 might benefit the other way but for progression and higher dps output it looks as if crit is better value still.

    Any thoughts on this?

  6. #666
    Can you give me any advice? I dont know i do bad. In the 5.1 i have 90/100k to dps now, 60/65. Any reforge idea?My armory
    /wow/es/character/ragnaros/Bijoh/advanced in US

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by rakkar View Post
    Thanks for this, it's useful to have it encapsulated in that manner as our stat balance and talents are tied very closely together and it makes a big impact on our dps. I had to do a fair amount of reforging and talent changes following 5.2 but I have managed to remove the initial dps loss - WW monks have to optimize their characters very carefully.
    I edited the post to remove the recommendations for Chi Wave. It's bugged right now and the bounce range is extremely small. Do not waste a GCD on it versus anything but a boss with a small player-sized hitbox. So it can be effective against most trash mobs and adds, and smaller bosses like Twin Consorts, and maybe Primordius.

    Even medium sized bosses like Lei Shen have problems. On my kill last night I only got an average of 2.5 ticks per use instead of 4. So basically don't gear around Chi Wave and only use it during energy starved periods when FoF is already on CD.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-08 at 11:16 AM ----------

    Bijoh: With your gear you should probably use Ascension instead of Power Strikes. Also, you should think of picking up Blacksmithing or Engineering instead of Mining, it's pretty big. Dancing Steel is pretty huge over Windsong too.

    Your DPS will have gone down slightly in this patch if you don't use Tigereye Brew intelligently. You have to pool stacks and use them when the timing is right so you have to learn what mechanics you can exploit on each fight to stack damage modifiers.

    For fights with no special mechanics you should setup an addon like WeakAuras to watch for trinket procs, skull banners, stormlash totems, and Bloodlust. Use Tigereye Brew at the same time as those.
    Last edited by Moozhe; 2013-03-08 at 11:43 PM.
    Moozh <vodka> - Windwalker Monk - (US-Stormrage)

  8. #668
    Currently rolling with 7k+ haste and I still feel like I have moments of downtime of about 2-3 seconds when I'm not doing something. Seeing people rolling with less than 5k haste makes me feel like this level of haste is unnecessary. Maybe my rotation is bad? I still manage to pull off EB and FoF usages almost on CD. My guild and I are still progressing through HoF normals so we're not good by any means but I would like to lower the gap between myself and the Assasination Rogue/Frost DK in my guild (Assassination rogue is 3-4 ilvls below me and on some bosses pulls 7-10k more dps than me)
    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ravencrest/Shouryuken/simple
    If any advice can be given on smarter reforging (yes I know I have bad professions) any help would be appreciated

  9. #669
    Yeah I'm consistently losing to Frost DKs and Ele Shamans and not competitive with Warlocks. Its pretty good with single target especially if you can line up TEB with a damage buff but it just seems like crap the rest of the time. It would be nice if we actually had updated simcraft too. I've lost about 20k dps all around even with lining up TEB. About ready to drop this class!
    Last edited by Felade; 2013-03-09 at 06:49 AM.

  10. #670
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moozhe View Post
    You have to pool stacks and use them when the timing is right so you have to learn what mechanics you can exploit on each fight to stack damage modifiers.

    For fights with no special mechanics you should setup an addon like WeakAuras to watch for trinket procs, skull banners, stormlash totems, and Bloodlust. Use Tigereye Brew at the same time as those.
    Do you ignore a 10 stack for Trinket procs? Hold the buff until you get a trinket proc?
    Host of Monkcraft Podcast and Co-Host of Groupquest

  11. #671
    These changes seem terrible unless you're in near BIS gear, which most of us aren't. In lower end guilds like mine, a nerf like this effects my raid in a big way, we don't have the luxury of having high skilled players playing in all 10 slots, there's no extra dps to make up the difference. I can understand pulling back the dps of a class that deserves it, but this seems quite a bit over the top since I'm sure most ww monks are probably still in 490 or below gear.

    Now I have to save my stacks to wait for trinket procs just pull back to what my dps was before the changes? I'd be ok with that change if it rewarded me with extra dps above the norm for being skilled enough to manage my procs on top of a rotation and movement, but not a fan if I have to work harder to break even.

  12. #672
    There was a bug that got corrected that was artificially increasing TEB generation, thus inflating mastery. Haste to soft cap > crit > mastery, its not really that much dps no matter how you gear past the haste cap. Once you get rune of reorigination you should maintain mastery as the highest secondary, but try to get as much crit as possible once mastery is #1. An example i gave on EJ was 7k haste, 8500 mastery, 8400 crit, or something along those lines. That should *in theory* be attainable in heroic gear, doubtful in NM. Going to test gear combos tonight hopefully.

    Also, I'll remove chi wave if its bugging in game, and try to get eein to fix chi burst so I can test w/ that.

  13. #673
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Well, after SimC finally fixed a few bugs (particularly one where they were incorrectly calculating Tigereye Brew stacks) at least in my current gearset, I'm showing Haste to 6800 rating (with Ascension) > Crit > Mastery. Had to adjust a few of the priority listings such as
    Code:
    /actions+=/tigereye_brew,if=!buff.tigereye_brew_use.up&buff.dancing_steel.up
    and
    Code:
    actions.st+=/chi_wave,if=talent.chi_wave.enabled&energy.time_to_max>=5
    Anyway, after trying out a more crit heavy build on live, i was performing better than when I was using a mastery stacking build. I suspect this will change once I get more Tier 15 gear (and the 4-piece) but for the time being I'm happy with the changes.

  14. #674
    I don't understand this patch... my monk : 494 (low guild ^^), 6k hast, 4.5k mastery and my dps on council of elders : 70k... is that normal ?
    My prio rotation : RSK > Tiger Palm for Tiger Power > EB (depend energy) > RSK up > FoF > Chi Wave > Combo Blackout Kick > Blackout Kick > Combo Tiger Palm. And Tigereye Brew on trinkets/BL or 15 stack if no proc.

  15. #675
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Council is a bad fight for monk dps, you're never gonna perform well on it. (similar to blade lord tayak)

  16. #676
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Council is a bad fight for monk dps, you're never gonna perform well on it. (similar to blade lord tayak)
    Depends on the strat. Our guild had me in the interrupt rotation on Sul, so I stayed on Sul the entire time. Our guild did a dot-centric strat where we tried to widdle down all of the bosses' heath so that we wouldn't have as many phases, so I did SEF on the Female Priest and the Frost warrior guy while I was on Sul and due to the cleaving was topping the charts.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-03-10 at 12:07 AM.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Depends on the strat. Our guild had me in the interrupt rotation on Sul, so I stayed on Sul the entire time. So I did SEF on the Female Priest and the Frost warrior guy while I was on Sul and due to the cleaving was topping the charts.
    Same, but doing 120k shouldn't top the charts with real multi-dotters in there. It's decent tho.

  18. #678
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kshar View Post
    Same, but doing 120k shouldn't top the charts with real multi-dotters in there. It's decent tho.
    I was doing more like 130k but still. I didn't win given that I died during our kill but until then I was beating our Shadow Priest and Lock. Granted this was before the whole 10% nerf so I'll have to see how it goes next week.

  19. #679
    when should i use Storm Earth Fire?

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by hallsey View Post
    when should i use Storm Earth Fire?
    Ideally? When you can abuse boss mechanics. I was placing my clones on the high priority targets on horridon when he was at 100%+ increased damage and getting in the top 5 dps. It's a bit harder to get another clone out but dealing more than 110k throughout the fight before the final phase and jalak spawning, I was satisfied. Long answer short, when you can deal more damage with it than without having a clone splitting off your damage.
    "The ocean is a scary place. It's full of water and stuff."

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