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  1. #61
    Mihir hit it on the head.
    If you are able to control the ability and use it to it's full extent, you will be better than the next Monk.

    It is tough to use for most people and that is a good thing. With practice, I have managed to weave it in, usually on cool down, in every fight I take part in. There are the odd occasions where I need to hold it for 2 - 3 seconds, but they are few and far between.

    It's not a horrid ability like some people think, you just need to practice.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    There's always periods of standing still tho, which can be used for Fists of Fury. You can also aim it away from CCed mobs, since it doesn't hit stuff behind you. It's annoying but also a way for skilled players to show their skill. The most skilled players will find ways to weave in FoF efficiently for a dps increase, while the less skilled players will just not bother with it.

    It's comparable to the feral druid lvl90 talents. The skilled players might choose dream of cenarius to weave in healing touches, which makes the rotation a lot more complicated. The less skilled players will just pick nature's vigil, which is slightly less dps but a lot easier to use.
    Picture the following: challenge mode dungeon, pack of closely placed mobs, one or 2 get cced. No chance in hell you can aim it away, bam, you just lost around 15% dps from not being able to use one of the priority abilities. This is merely an example. Yesterday I tried garalon with guild. Its a boss that you have to kite, you are trying to dps his very small legs, that have an area around them that increases dmg taken by 100% or something. More than once, I hit FoF, the person kiting the boss has to turn him around, and im either standing there doing nothing for 4 seconds, or I just lost 3/4 of my resources because I have to move and just wasted 3 chi. That has absolutely nothing to do with "player skill", its terrible design, basically. Also, they just removed the dead zone from hunters, as a quality of life improvement. Do these sound like the same designers? They have to change something about it, or just remove it completely and give us something different.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-04 at 06:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsayyar View Post
    Mihir hit it on the head.
    If you are able to control the ability and use it to it's full extent, you will be better than the next Monk.

    It is tough to use for most people and that is a good thing. With practice, I have managed to weave it in, usually on cool down, in every fight I take part in. There are the odd occasions where I need to hold it for 2 - 3 seconds, but they are few and far between.

    It's not a horrid ability like some people think, you just need to practice.
    Im guessing you havent seen many of the raid encounters, have you? because on many of them, its impossible to use it on cooldown. Yes, it is a horrid ability, its a 4 second long channeled cast for a melee, wtf are they thinking.

  3. #63
    As much as you like to think I haven't, I have. All of them, in fact. ^_^

    I will take your Garalon fight as my example. A little hard to explain, though I will do my best.
    I have my camera at max zoom with the /command. I also position myself in a way that I know I will hit with all ticks of my FoF, no matter the situation. So, if I position myself to the front left of a leg (I am assuming I am stood on the left side of his body) the person kiting would never be able to move him out of my range and I will always be in the circle.

    I use the leg as a pivot point, helping me with proper placement of my character no matter where the boss moves. If you understand the speed in which the boss moves, you can always place yourself in a position where you can get a full FoF.

    Even in the Challenge mode you made an example with; if the mob is positioned very close to the others while CC'd, then place yourself on the other side and face slightly away. Keep your back to the CC'd mobs and the other mob in front. If that is un-able to happen, then use this trick;

    Place yourself inside the targets hit box, making sure your hit box is just inside his. Keep your back to both the boss and the CC'd trash and hit FoF. The ability hit all things inside your hit box and then everything in front too. Doing this means you hit the add that is in the hit box, but keep the CC'd mobs away.

    It's hard, I know. But there is literally not that many times where you cannot get a full FoF off on a boss or trash pack. You just need to use forward thinking and proper placement. ^_^
    Last edited by Alsayyar; 2012-09-04 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Spelling is hard.

  4. #64
    In my opinion, being "able" to use it in any encounter is besides the point. Forcing a relatively mobile melee class to stand still for a couple of seconds, while risking breaking CC or damaging targets that aren´t supposed to die is bad design. I often feel like Blizzard is trying to hard to give you the "right feeling" of a class and focusing less on usability. They should either change it into a pure AoE/utility ability while giving us another option or just buffing the rest of our single target attacks or change it. Even a glyph might help. Evidence that they thought of a situation where doing AoE dmg as melee is a bad idea is the "Glyph of Lava Lash". Personally, I´d like to change it into a buff that would grant you extra hits while the ability is active, that way you could perfectly use it in your rotation, it would be worth the chi and there would no longer be a moveability or AoE "problem" with it.

  5. #65
    This might have been posted somewhere else, but simply cant find it.

    Did anyone came up with some badass weak auras for Windwalker monks?
    Any posted set imports or? Would love to have em from lvl 1

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Akato View Post
    In my opinion, being "able" to use it in any encounter is besides the point. Forcing a relatively mobile melee class to stand still for a couple of seconds, while risking breaking CC or damaging targets that aren´t supposed to die is bad design. I often feel like Blizzard is trying to hard to give you the "right feeling" of a class and focusing less on usability. They should either change it into a pure AoE/utility ability while giving us another option or just buffing the rest of our single target attacks or change it. Even a glyph might help. Evidence that they thought of a situation where doing AoE dmg as melee is a bad idea is the "Glyph of Lava Lash". Personally, I´d like to change it into a buff that would grant you extra hits while the ability is active, that way you could perfectly use it in your rotation, it would be worth the chi and there would no longer be a moveability or AoE "problem" with it.
    If you change the ability to just be spam-able with no penalty, then you loose that little bit of a skill factor of the ability.

    Like I have said already, it is a pain in the ass to use but handling that pain in the ass is what will make you better than the rest. If it took 3 Chi and doubled our attacks, then that would be OP for what it's cool down is. At that point, your looking at a 1.5 or even 2 minute cool down. Yes, you can argue that Rogues / Warriors have a permanent 50% cleave, but that isn't something every class should have.

    The ability as an AoE is great. The ability as a single target attack is great too, you just need to handle it properly.

  7. #67
    The ability as an AoE is great.
    Idk about that. The split makes it do basically the same amount of damage that it would on single targets even in AOE situations. I agree with everything else though - I'm slowly getting over my FoF hate (I had bad memories of Slam casting). Maybe it will annoy me - I thought that I'd be ok with Shred as Feral and as soon as I got in the raid it was OMG THIS IS TERRIBLE (where's the back of Deathwing's toenail, exactly?). Challenging is fine, but frustrating is not. Time will tell which one FoF turns out to be.

  8. #68
    You've got it.
    It has limitations, sure, but it is a lot better than having to Shred / Backstab a boss. Using forward thinking, you will easily be able to handle in it time. A lot of people keep showing it hate, but it seem perfectly fine for me (Perhaps I have just learn to use it quicker than some, not calling them bad).

  9. #69
    Anyway I predict it wont last long in its current incarnation, or maybe it will, since not enough players complain about it atm... Get real, a 4 seconds cast as melee? Not going to last. Even slam, 0.5 secs cast, was changed! And that one didnt even require you to be stationary.

  10. #70
    Dreadlord Rocheku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikhart View Post
    Anyway I predict it wont last long in its current incarnation, or maybe it will, since not enough players complain about it atm... Get real, a 4 seconds cast as melee? Not going to last. Even slam, 0.5 secs cast, was changed! And that one didnt even require you to be stationary.
    I agree here. I think it would've been better if it could be used while moving, especially in PvP.

  11. #71
    I agree here. I think it would've been better if it could be used while moving, especially in PvP.
    You could slam while moving for most of Cata IIRC, certainly by 4.3.

    The difference for me comes where they fit in the rotation. A Warrior's short CDs on their strikes means you don't have much time to slam, so it tends to be an ability you try to squeeze in when you can. That's pretty tough in a GCD locked spec, and rooting is just too much at that point. With an energy based spec, it is a little easier to find lags where you won't need 2 or even 3 GCDs (basically when your energy is low and your Chi is high). Also, 25 seconds is a pretty low bar. FoF is basically something to do while you wait for your energy to regen. The trick of course is the root. We'll see. Again, I may turn out to hate this ability all over again, I'm certainly nervous for it. It beats totems and pets on a 10 min CD...you don't wish the Enhancement rotation on your worst enemy.

  12. #72
    Dreadlord Rocheku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felade View Post
    You could slam while moving for most of Cata IIRC, certainly by 4.3.
    Haha, i was aiming at the fact you have to be stationary for FoF

  13. #73
    What do you guys think about our AoE capabilities so far? Last time I got to play beta I could only check it out for the premade character (so 378 gear) and it was actually not bad. With 3 tiger power and the rising sun kick debuff I was doing around 32k DPS on 3 targets, which seems quite alot for only 3 targets, using and AoE that would basically hit every target around you.

  14. #74
    The nice thing about our AOE is that it is competitive on 3+ targets, as opposed to something like Shadow Priest, where Mind Sear only gets good on 4-5 targets (you have to multidot on 2-3 targets).

  15. #75
    It's nice that we can have competitive AoE on larger packs, but our downfall is our ability to cleave two targets.
    FoF covers it a little, but don't expect to be comparing up to those Warriors / Rogues / (To an extent) Deathknights.

  16. #76
    FoF covers it a little, but don't expect to be comparing up to those Warriors / Rogues / (To an extent) Deathknights.
    That's their niche, I guess. I'd say we're closer to par with DKs and Howling Blast. They'd probably pull ahead on 2 targets due to Howling Blast being part of their ST rotation, but that depends on how much they compensate us for lack of a true cleave in our ST damage. ST damage really is the name of the game for monks.

  17. #77
    I don't think we will have above par ST damage if our cleave was lower than everyone else's. Would be too OP on any fight where we get a single target to nuke.

    I personally think we're in a good place right now, not the worst and not the best. Let's see how we are on live in a few days.

  18. #78
    Stood in the Fire Yorgl's Avatar
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    I don't know if it was mentionned before but a glyph that would make FoF castable while moving and that would reduce its damage by X% (say X between 10 and 25 I guess) could be a fair trade for the fights were we move a lot. (Even if it can be a choice to say : i'll be a better player and know exactly when I have a window to cast it and not move to deal as much dmg as possible.)

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorgl View Post
    I don't know if it was mentionned before but a glyph that would make FoF castable while moving and that would reduce its damage by X% (say X between 10 and 25 I guess) could be a fair trade for the fights were we move a lot. (Even if it can be a choice to say : i'll be a better player and know exactly when I have a window to cast it and not move to deal as much dmg as possible.)
    I dont think its a value tradeoff. I think such a glyph should remove the stun since the stun is wasted on bosses mot the time anyways.

  20. #80
    Then it becomes a mandatory glyph, which goes against they're design for what Glyphs are.
    Granted, it wouldn't be in PvP, though in PvE - Mandatory.

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