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  1. #841
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhyte View Post
    I didn't get any answer about this, so I'm going to ask again. What do monks that want to min/max use to handle reforging? Wowreforge does not take into account upgraded items. Any other website or addon I have seen does not let you set a 3rd stat cap (haste for us). As soon as we get RoR it will be even more funky. Are people just doing it manually?
    Personally, I use a combination of AMR and SimC. What I do is I first get my CURRENT Stat valuation in SimC (using 50,000 iteration [best if more than 1 core is used]; though 25,000 should get you within 40dps variance). I then go into AMR, and change the stat values. Also so that I have a haste platue, I add in the .15944 haste threshold and move the haste stat value below the other two. Finally under the options menu, I make sure that the force hit/exp are capped.

    As for upgrades, I tend to favor the "Relative" upgrades. If testing in SimC, for the most part it works out correctly. Sure there will variance on placement generally those are side-grades to one another.

    As for RoR, yea it will be funky. Luckly I should be next on the list to get the trinket (our Feral Druid got his last week).

  2. #842
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Since Chi Wave is doing a good ammount of damage I am just going Mastery highest > 1 point under Crit > 5500 haste. Still practicing higher haste, and I really havent had any real world RoR practice yet, will have some more tonight.
    Host of Monkcraft Podcast and Co-Host of Groupquest

  3. #843
    Moderator Alysmera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nhyte View Post
    I didn't get any answer about this, so I'm going to ask again. What do monks that want to min/max use to handle reforging? Wowreforge does not take into account upgraded items. Any other website or addon I have seen does not let you set a 3rd stat cap (haste for us). As soon as we get RoR it will be even more funky. Are people just doing it manually?
    As Hinalover said, I personally run myself through SimC, and use WoWreforge to get a good idea of where I can go. I've never been as comfortable with AMR's interface, but ever since upgrades I've used it more and more.

    Outside of that, I just do the math with a calculator. I know what my stat prios are - so if I need, say, 70 more expertise, then where can I forge some expertise into Mastery and then forge elsewhere for that 70? That's an oversimplified way of explaining it, but I'm not sure how else to explain. Typically, my math is pretty close to WoWreforge, but I've also dropped most (but not all) of my upgraded items already.

    Granted, I'm a numbers person, so I like figuring things out on my own (such as reforging). It keeps my arithmetic sharp, and I'm usually within a few points of what's optimal.

  4. #844
    Hey guys, I just got a Sha-dun thunderforged(528 red gem+ prismatic red) and planned to tank with it, but now thinking about it, would it be superior to my hands of the dark animus (522 red gem + prismatic red) + claw of shek'zeer(504 + legendary gem + prismatic red) as dps?

  5. #845
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    I'd say they would be about equal.

  6. #846
    I've gotten pretty good results by aiming for ~7000 Haste and gemming Agi and Agi + X in non-Red sockets. I'm trying to move away from FoF because so many fights this tier require constant movement.

    Relevant WoL: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/7ffpj...=10393&e=10985

    I feel like I'm performing decently for being only 511 ilvl.

  7. #847
    Quote Originally Posted by Nhyte View Post
    I didn't get any answer about this, so I'm going to ask again. What do monks that want to min/max use to handle reforging? Wowreforge does not take into account upgraded items. Any other website or addon I have seen does not let you set a 3rd stat cap (haste for us). As soon as we get RoR it will be even more funky. Are people just doing it manually?
    Even if WoWReforge doesn't recognize upgraded items, it's still the best available option at the moment, imho. Yes, you "lose" a few ratings here and there, but the comfort of having the haste cap accounted for, far outweights the small loss.

  8. #848
    Regarding WowReforge and item upgrades:
    Just click on the items you've upgpraded and enter the upgraded stats manually. For example, you have the elegon trinket upgraded to 2/2, load your character, click on the trinket, change the mastery value to it's actual value!
    You will have to do this for every item (and it won't be saved, so after reloading your char when you've got a new item or anything, you need to do it again), but the improved stats will be used when calculating the reforges. It isn't the best solution because it can take quite some time, but you will have the best reforging results!

  9. #849
    Wondering if you guys can help, up until now I've been using Kura-Kura(522) MH and Claw of Shek'zeer(504) OH. I just got Wu-Lai the 522 fist from a coin roll and I am unsure if I should stick with the Claw for the extra 500+- AGI or put the new weapon in my OH. Any advice? Thanks

  10. #850
    Blademaster Buju's Avatar
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    Stance of the Fierce Tiger now increases damage done by 30%, up from 10% hotfix on live.
    Ty so much blizz!

  11. #851
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buju View Post
    Ty so much blizz!
    It's too early to say if it was a datamining bug or not. GC through twitter has stated that there should not be any class balancing at this point.

    Link

  12. #852
    Blademaster Buju's Avatar
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    /sadface if so

  13. #853
    Is it worth it to use tigerseye on low stacks in any situation? My trinkets are both up at the same time in the beginning of the fight quite often. And living steel + pre pot too. Add the occasional pull heroism too.

    Using 2/2 HC bottle and Normal bad juju.

  14. #854
    suppose you can do, but you're not going to build many stacks by the time all your buffs drop off. its best to build as many as you can for when the trinkets come off cd.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranes View Post
    "If you dont have any clue what you're talking about, shut your piehole"
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  15. #855
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtality View Post
    suppose you can do, but you're not going to build many stacks by the time all your buffs drop off. its best to build as many as you can for when the trinkets come off cd.
    You never want to use TEB stacks before a 10 stack anymore. Of course this goes out of te window based on the boss fight - need to burn an add before you wipe/need to get the boss to a pushover mechanic moment/need to aoe the adds down ASAP. Those things are going to be where you may want to use TEB depending on if you need things to happen. As for the actual rule, its TEB when 10+ and Trinket else use at 20.
    Host of Monkcraft Podcast and Co-Host of Groupquest

  16. #856
    Quote Originally Posted by Gulvan View Post
    You never want to use TEB stacks before a 10 stack anymore.
    I don't think this is necessarily true; you don't gain or lose DPS by using TEB at any specific number of stacks, and you never have. As long as you arent overwriting your current TEB buff with another one, you can use them as trinket procs or encounter mechanics allow.

  17. #857
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    As an example of above, I pretty much always use TEB right before I start aoeing, regardless of how many stacks I have. Reasoning is that aoe damage is generally higher than singletarget dmg (otherwise you wouldn't be aoeing).

  18. #858
    High Overlord Gulvan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    As an example of above, I pretty much always use TEB right before I start aoeing, regardless of how many stacks I have. Reasoning is that aoe damage is generally higher than singletarget dmg (otherwise you wouldn't be aoeing).
    Yeah I said fight mechanic aside. But I would presume using it when a trinket procs would yield more dps gained than w/o? I remember we had this discussion in another thread I presumed it was as I stated, wait til 10 then use. I know its the case for RoR so you dont waste that dmg boost (10+ 20 use).
    Host of Monkcraft Podcast and Co-Host of Groupquest

  19. #859
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Guide update:


    Updated stat values
    5.2 gives us a lot more freedom in what stats to go for, as all stats can be good depending on the situation and your gear.

    I'd first like to address the haste soft-cap. While this was at 4K in 5.1, the change to mastery means that Combo Breaker will proc a lot less often. This means that it will take more haste to be able to fill every GCD. Good values to go for now are between 6 and 8k, depending on what setbonuses you have, how comfortable you are with your rotation, your latency, etc. Personally I like to stay just below 7k.

    After reaching the haste soft-cap, there's 3 recommended ways to gem and reforge:

    1. No T15 4set bonus and no Rune of Re-Origination trinket: hit/exp caps > haste softcap > agility > crit > mastery > haste beyond softcap > hit beyond softcap

    Red sockets: pure agility
    Yellow sockets: agility + crit
    Blue sockets: agility + hit

    2. You got the T15 4set bonus and good gear, but no Rune of Re-Origination: hit/exp caps > haste softcap > agility > mastery >= crit > haste beyond softcap > hit beyond softcap

    Red sockets: pure agility
    Yellow sockets: agility + mastery
    Blue sockets: agility + hit

    3 Rune of Re-Origination: hit/exp caps > enough mastery to make it your highest secondary stat (without raidbuff) > haste softcap > crit > haste beyond the softcap > more mastery than is needed to make it your highest stat > agility > hit beyond the softcap

    Red sockets: expertise/agility + haste/mastery/crit (expertise gems will give you more secondary stats to play with, but take care to not go over the expertise cap)
    Yellow sockets: pure haste/mastery/crit
    Blue sockets: hit + haste/mastery/crit

    What gems to use will vary a lot, and it's not weird to use 5 different kinds of gems in different parts of your gear.

    Ideally your stats will look something like this:

    haste: 6.5k (softcap)
    mastery: 6.6k (just above haste)
    crit: 5.5k (rest into crit as long as it stays below mastery)

    As you gain better gear, all 3 of your secondary stats should stay very close to each other, with mastery being slightly ahead of the other two.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2013-03-28 at 05:27 PM.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post

    3 Rune of Re-Origination: hit/exp caps > enough mastery to make it your highest secondary stat (without raidbuff) > haste softcap > crit > haste beyond the softcap > more mastery than is needed to make it your highest stat > agility > hit beyond the softcap

    Red sockets: agility + haste/mastery/crit
    Yellow sockets: pure haste/mastery/crit
    Blue sockets: hit + haste/mastery/crit

    What gems to use will vary a lot, and it's not weird to use 5 different kinds of gems in different parts of your gear.

    Ideally your stats will look something like this:

    haste: 6.5k (softcap)
    mastery: 6.6k (just above haste)
    crit: 5.5k (rest into crit as long as it stays below mastery)

    As you gain better gear, all 3 of your secondary stats should stay very close to each other, with mastery being slightly ahead of the other two.
    Is there any reason you wouldn't go for Expertise + Haste / Mastery / Crit in Red sockets if doing so won't put you above Expertise cap? More secondary stats = better synergy with RoR.

    The way I'm currently doing my reforging with RoR is get Hit / Expertise capped, take the sum of Haste, Mastery, and Crit, divide by 3. Then adjust reforging / gems such that Haste rating = Crit rating and Mastery is slightly ahead of both. This works right now at my gear level (513 ilvl), but I'm not sure if it's worth continuing it once we get to 530+ ilvl.

    For example, which of the following is better:

    8001 Mastery, 8000 Haste, 8000 Crit (40001 Mastery when RoR procs)
    vs
    8751 Mastery, 6500 Haste, 8750 Crit (39521 Mastery when RoR procs)

    In other words, is it worth being over Haste soft cap if it means we'll get more secondary stats from a RoR proc?

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