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  1. #1061
    Quote Originally Posted by Quotey View Post
    Since Xuen doesn't work on this boss (his crackling tiger lightning doesn't hit him) you should take RJW. Find the right place to hit a ton of walls (it's either standing to the side of the 3rd or 4th one or right in the middle facing the once that's far away- can't remember) and stand in the very centre of the boss and just SCK. However I just single target the proper wall nowadays because fuck getting in the exact spot to actually get the RSK debuff on them. You can also use RJW to pad on wandering eyes but ehhhhhh best not to really.

    You're not gonna do well on ice walls really, or because fothe Xuen bug the boss at all. I think I did about 165k on our first 25 kill? Had less gear than you but did have rune, so you should be a bit lower than that.

    e: oo, i think that RJW does more damage than BOK + the dot with high agi (ie renataki's stacks) but i could be wrong
    Thanks, going to give this a shot next reset then! (and RoRo only dropped once for us and it went to our guardian druid, coined every week - no luck :\)

  2. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruga View Post
    I have a question for WW Monks on Heroic Durumu the Forgotten:

    We killed it for the first time this reset (25 man) however I am very unhappy with my performance on it.
    Not only did I do subterran DPS, I never managed to properly use SCK on the Icewalls.
    I was thinking of using my clones on the walls but I am having issues targeting the "orbs" fast and efficiently enough to make it matter.

    Does anyone have some tips that might help me with the walls?
    I just used clones. It was to dangerous to try to SCK in the middle of the boss due to the lifedrain that noone can take from you when you stand there. I placed 1 clone on on part of the wall and then just single target dpsed something else. Couldnt really do much more than that.

  3. #1063
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quotey View Post
    Since Xuen doesn't work on this boss (his crackling tiger lightning doesn't hit him) you should take RJW.
    It's worth mentioning that Xuen does not get fully mutated on Primordius as well, making him useless outside of killing living fluids.

  4. #1064
    1. No T15 4set bonus and no Rune of Re-Origination trinket: hit/exp caps > haste softcap > agility > crit > mastery > haste beyond softcap > hit beyond softcap
    Hey, I recently came back to the game and this confuses the hell out of me. Granted my gear sucks (496 ilvl, 5.1k haste and no RoR, Armory for those interested), SimC 520-10 gives me following stat prio:



    Also I don't use FoF so I commented it on simulation, which should give haste even bigger value. Still it doesn't even reach half of Agi. How did you come into conclusion that haste softcap is more important than Agi?

  5. #1065
    Also I don't use FoF so I commented it on simulation, which should give haste even bigger value. Still it doesn't even reach half of Agi. How did you come into conclusion that haste softcap is more important than Agi?
    1.84x2 = 3.68 > 3.40. You should be gemming Haste unless you've got a significant socket bonus, it looks like to me. That continues to be the case up to 22% Haste, I believe. The idea is that this level of Haste isn't really usable by humans and you should stop stacking Haste around the 7k mark.

    Personally, I went all the way up to 22% Haste until I got my Rune last week and it was fine. I always saw an in-game DPS increase when I bumped my Haste above 7k.

    Also, you really, really should use FoF. You can, among other things, line it up with the new Tiger Eye Brew and a trinket proc for some ridiculous damage. It really isn't that difficult to use.
    Last edited by Felade; 2013-05-13 at 05:25 AM.

  6. #1066
    Ah yes of course, it assumed double values for secondary stats because of gemming. Thanks.

  7. #1067
    Hey Guys,

    I recently retooled my monk alt to a WW mainspec from BrM as of 2 days ago. I have been messing around with Crit>Haste>Mastery and Haste>Crit>Mastery specs as well as trying out Haste at various points - low as 4k, 5k, 6k and up to 8k - I'm currently back to just a little over 6k (which was my favourite area to hover around as BrM).

    Been reading the guild here and on EJ to try to embed the rotations in my head. I am about a week out from when I join a new 10 man group as a dps. Looking at my current set-up is there anything glaring you would recommend I adjust to get the most out of my character?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rails/advanced

    I haven't actually dpsed on him in a raid environment (other then as an OS to BrM back in HoF) so for now I won't be able to put up logs to get a proper idea of my up times on abilities. Right now looking for an armory audit.

    Thanks!

  8. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yayorelay View Post
    Hey Guys,

    I recently retooled my monk alt to a WW mainspec from BrM as of 2 days ago. I have been messing around with Crit>Haste>Mastery and Haste>Crit>Mastery specs as well as trying out Haste at various points - low as 4k, 5k, 6k and up to 8k - I'm currently back to just a little over 6k (which was my favourite area to hover around as BrM).

    Been reading the guild here and on EJ to try to embed the rotations in my head. I am about a week out from when I join a new 10 man group as a dps. Looking at my current set-up is there anything glaring you would recommend I adjust to get the most out of my character?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rails/advanced

    I haven't actually dpsed on him in a raid environment (other then as an OS to BrM back in HoF) so for now I won't be able to put up logs to get a proper idea of my up times on abilities. Right now looking for an armory audit.

    Thanks!
    Get rid of Windsong and get the extra gems in your weapons.

    Besides that it looks solid. I would personally prefer more Haste, but if you are comfortable thats your call.

    I also see alot of people struggling with to much hit. When you get something besides the Valor trinket it will solve itself naturally.

  9. #1069
    I'm actually 80 Valor from the extra sockets - lol so they will be there on Tuesday.

    For trinkets I do have the (lfr) primordius one (agi+stacking haste) - would this ilvl loss be a dmg loss? or would the passive agi be better? Gonna run a couples sims both ways when I get home tonight.

    Thanks

  10. #1070
    Re: Durumu.

    I found that just killing the wall along the disintegration beam was enough of a priority and not worrying about the rest of the walls. Let the Ele shaman and locks do their thing and the walls will come down fine. You could try to use SEF on the walls and single target them down since melee can't touch them reliably. It's not padding since the damage is useful.

    I was the only reliable Mortal Strike debuff in my raid, so I did my best to keep 100% uptime for this debuff on the boss. This meant using SEF bros on Crimson mists and such.

  11. #1071
    So how does lfr RoRO stack up with other 522 trinkets? Specifically thinking of the S-P Assault and 522 Bad Juju?

  12. #1072
    Does anyone know if upgrading the PPM trinkets increases the proc rate?

  13. #1073
    Hey guys,

    First of all, thanks a lot for all the research and info sharing on this topic. Really helped me play my monk better.

    A few days ago we were progressing on Megaera and I was a bit disappointed by my dps, considering I got some nice upgrades lately, including RoRo normal. Not only did our feral druid blew me out of the water, I also noticed other DPS came pretty close to me, while that's normally not the case. Basically I'm looking for some tips and tricks to get my DPS up, not only on this boss, but also in general.

    I try to let my playstyle revolve around my trinket. I reforged, gemmed and enchanted to get my secundary stats up as much as possible. I also race changed from monk to draenei (more hit, thus more flexibility to tweak around secundary stats a bit, also cause I like the model better) and powerlvl'd Engineering (to stack up the on-use agility on gloves with trinket proc(s)) to get the most out of RoRo. I also maintained my 4-set bonus with LFR-pieces, although I have 522 chest and gloves in inventory.

    My playstyle concerning the trinket is that I wait untill the proc is almost over, before I activate my build up TeB stacks. That way I have some time to build up TeB stacks when they are <10 and hope for my reforged Bad Juju to proc. Alternate way is that I use my stacks inmediately when I have => 10 stacks and Bad Juju procced. I also use my stacks when I build up 20 TeB stacks. I'm still trying to figure out what I should do with my stacks when BJ procs without RoRo. It seems a bit silly not taking advantage of an 8k agility proc, but at the other hand using TeB stacks during this proc risks that I don't have 10 stacks when RoRo procs. Whenever I use my TeB stacks, I also activate my engineering gloves.

    My raiding style concerning Meg is pretty straight forward. Running out when I have cinder. When the poison bomb hit I try to absorb them by using Diffuse Magic or Touch of Karma. I'm not using clone(s), since it lowers my dps on the main target. During the fight I do notice I'm getting energy starved at some times. I do wonder if it's a DPS increase to get my haste (and ofc mastery) up and my crit down. I'm afraid if I do dps my sustained dmg will get lower, since I'm missing the epicurean and wrist enchant, which costs me around 800 agi and I need the crit to keep sustained dmg up a bit. I also wonder if I should keep FoF and Chi Wave in my single target rotation cause of high DPET or I should just jab and BoK/RSK

    Anyway TL: DR, some questions:

    -> Should I maintain my 4 set bonus, although I have 2 522 pieces in inventory I can use instead? Those are VP gloves and Oondasta chest
    -> Should I use my TeB stacks when Bad Juju procs, even when RoRo does not proc?
    -> Concerning those procs: Should I only use TEB stacks when they are equal or more then 10, or can I also use them below 10?
    -> Is it viable to get my haste (and thus mastery) up to haste soft cap, even if it's gonna cost me a chunk of crit?
    -> Should I use high DPET spells like FoF and Chi Wave or just focus on getting those stacks as fast up as possible?

    Ofc any other tips are more then welcome. Can't link URL's below. My chars name is Kirrie on EU-server Turalyon. Logs are up under guild name 'Revolution' on 12th may.

    Thanks in advance!

  14. #1074
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    Quote Originally Posted by bounstar View Post
    Does anyone know if upgrading the PPM trinkets increases the proc rate?
    Yes. The proc rate of RPPM trinkets is based on its ilvl.

  15. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
    Yes. The proc rate of RPPM trinkets is based on its ilvl.
    That's right, but we don't know if the RPPM proc rate is calculated dynamically based on ilvl, or if each version of the trinket has the RPPM hard coded. I'd like to think that they are dynamic, but it's hard to test on the PTR and get reliable results.

  16. #1076

    A confused fister.

    Dear Fellow Windwalker monks.

    I just started wow again after a 6 year break cus of school but now i'm back into what i like and theorycrafting is a big part of what i like in wow and why i like playing around with my character and keep trying to tweak it into pulling more dps.

    But at this time i am abit confused. I'm following dps rotations and i've been followng(only reading no replying) on this post since it first got posted by mihir. And i've been simcrafting alot of u guys and some of the other high end raiders.

    My guild have basicly just cleared normal tot and we're doing heroic progression now on horridon.

    So this is my question cus there is so many different builds out there atm that seem to work good. I know that simcrafting a patchwerk fight in tot is abit so and so cus there is alot of moving in most of the fights and that is also the reason i guess that ppl are actually happy with the haste around 7k.

    I played with my haste for around 6800 when i dual wielded 522 council mace and 496 claws with agility gem. but now i just got a 522 two hander i wanna try out. By my simcrafting it actually puts me down around 8k dps from the dualwielding one. But on target test dummies with my standard dps rotation popping TeB on trink proccs and so on my dps is actually pretty close to 10k higher than my dualwielding was. I do have abit more haste now though with the two hand (8204) to be more exact. This might drop some when i see how this turns out in atual fights in the raid due to energy capping.

    But now to my question.
    I took my freedom to look into two different players with simcrafting that does not have the RoR and players that i'v been following from start. I've also been following Mihir alot but now he's packing into RoR.

    I'm afraid i can't link any links yet. since this is my first post But the char i'm refering to is Pattisan on Alonsus [EU]

    (Compared to my setup u have almost 5% more crit but so much less agility and abit more haste) I was thinking since agility gives atk power and crit i wanted to stack up on thouse when i was happy with my haste. But the 200k dps u pull on my simcraft is 50k more than me. I do not have the 4 set T15 yet( lacking chest from animus). So my question is, does really the difference in our gear really make such an insane amount of dps difference?

    I also took my freedom to check out this fella:

    Justmonk-twisting-nether [EU]

    And he's reforging more like i did with my one handers.

    my build:
    Charname: Bambobo
    Server: Stormcale
    region: [EU]

    This is howerever my current build. Am I completley doing something wrong or do i have to just w8 to get my trinket upgrades/ and gear before my dps will grow bigger. Cus at this writing time our rouge with lfr daggers and lfr tier set is outdpsing me quite significantly on some fights.

    Hoping to get some pointers on my builds and Maybe some alaborated answers. Love this post and thank you for all the information it has given me so far.

    Regards
    -Bambobo
    Last edited by Bambobo; 2013-05-14 at 08:03 PM.

  17. #1077
    @Bambobo

    The basic answer is Yes windwalkers are very gear dependent this tier. A 4 set and RoR trinket are going to provide a very large increase in DPS.

    When doing sims, the default settings will favor a haste build. So the fact that you jumped from 6.8k haste to 8.2k haste is why you see the large increase in DPS. However, you have now noticed that simcraft is overvaluing haste based on your own results at the target dummy.

    If you're concerned about your dps, you may want to post a log so we can look at specifics about your rotation.

  18. #1078
    @Kirrie

    -> Should I maintain my 4 set bonus, although I have 2 522 pieces in inventory I can use instead? Those are VP gloves and Oondasta chest

    I would keep four set personally, it is pretty important with RoR to be generating as many TeB stacks as possible to get the maximum use out of it.

    -> Should I use my TeB stacks when Bad Juju procs, even when RoRo does not proc?

    I have Bad Juju as well and typically I just ignore when it procs and save stacks solely for RoR procs. If I reach 19 stacks without RoR proccing then that sucks, but use 10 stacks anyway. This is unlikely to happen loads during a fight, but it sucks when it does. The alternative is using stacks when Bad Juju procs, only to have RoR proc shortly afterwards and be completely wasted (I had this happen a lot when I was first playing with the trinket).

    -> Concerning those procs: Should I only use TEB stacks when they are equal or more then 10, or can I also use them below 10?

    Use as many stacks as you have. Say for example you have 7 stacks when RoR proc is about to end - use them! That is still going to be over 100% damage increase for 15 secs. Basically you never want to waste a RoR proc.

    -> Is it viable to get my haste (and thus mastery) up to haste soft cap, even if it's gonna cost me a chunk of crit?

    I would try and keep you stats as they are and try and use FoF a bit more often if possible to give you time to regen energy. If you still feel your energy regen is too low then yes - just play with it a bit.

    -> Should I use high DPET spells like FoF and Chi Wave or just focus on getting those stacks as fast up as possible?

    Try and use Chi Wave as much as possible (without delaying RSK or energy capping). With high AP Chi Wave does more damage than BoK and is well worth using on CD.

    In regards to your dps compared to the feral - don't worry about it. He is better geared (5 ilvl or so I believe) and your weapons are terrible. WW is very dependant on weapons in particular and you will see your dps increase a lot when you get a 522. A small tip for Magaera as WW is to use ToK as much as possible (during rampages to get the full soak) for some free dps. Never use clones (don't know why this would even enter your mind!).

    Hope this was useful.




    @Bambobo:

    This tier we are one of, if not the most gear dependant dps spec in the game. I almost rerolled to a warrior in early ToT due to my dps being so bad without 4 set, but more importantly no RoR. The spec is now balanced around that trinket because it is so insanely good - so if you don't have it you will be at the bottom of the meters sadly. I wouldn't worrying to much about doing anything "wrong" before you get RoR, because it is very hard to compare you to other monks with it.

  19. #1079
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltycracker View Post
    That's right, but we don't know if the RPPM proc rate is calculated dynamically based on ilvl, or if each version of the trinket has the RPPM hard coded. I'd like to think that they are dynamic, but it's hard to test on the PTR and get reliable results.
    It's not hard, but it's gonna take a few hours on a dummy :P

    I would be very surprised if it's hard-coded though. Item upgrades were implemented before the RPPM trinkets, and we already knew that we'll be able to upgrade again in 5.3. I'll actually try to ping GC on twitter for a clarification.

  20. #1080
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    @Bambobo

    If you do not have rune you are going to be doing low dps for your iLvl compared to other classes. The trinket is the spec. 4set isn't that big till you get rune, but still a decent upgrade.

    The reason I have more crit is due to having a lot more iLvl so I can afford to balance all my stats near to 8.2k for rune.

    As stated before we are gear dependent, you will ideally need two heroic weapons and a rune before you will start seeing anything competitive. Obviously there is little things you can do on fights to pull more DPS, its not all about the gear, but it's defiantly a big part of it.

    I did a quick scan of your char and it seemed like everything was gemmed/enchanted correctly. If you have any logs then we could look through those as well. And one final thing horridon isn't our best fight.

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