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  1. #1121
    What do you guys think of going full expertise hybrid gems instead of agi? With the now achievable item level on the weapons those 1000k crits are no rarity anymore.. should we push our secondaries even more? I see Reqfu going this route with sick amounts of haste and others gemming full agi. Is there a way to calculate what way of those results in better dps?

  2. #1122
    High Overlord Drweird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    I do a little bit of both, to be honest. AMR is pretty iffy IMO, but Zephyrus is proving to be very nice. I've just been playing with different levels of haste, so some of my reforges are a bit weird right now.
    What's Zephyrus? Also Check out my monk atm, http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...genio/advanced

    anything i could be doing better to mini max that mastery / crit/ haste?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 09:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Feinyr View Post
    What do you guys think of going full expertise hybrid gems instead of agi? With the now achievable item level on the weapons those 1000k crits are no rarity anymore.. should we push our secondaries even more? I see Reqfu going this route with sick amounts of haste and others gemming full agi. Is there a way to calculate what way of those results in better dps?

    I'm pretty sure he has sick amounts of haste purely due to his gear. If you look at how he is reforged and gemmed his mastery is still only 1 point ahead of haste. This will come to us all in time with gear.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 09:47 AM ----------

    Edit: Do you pop your TeB ONLY when Rune procs?

  3. #1123
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drweird View Post
    What's Zephyrus?
    Zephyrus is a Java-based program that calculates the best gemming/reforging/re-enchanting to provide you a 1.01/1/1 ratio while you have Rune equipped. It basically tries to get you as close to even as possible between your mastery, crit, haste. It was originally made for Feral druids (given that it's being posted on Fluiddruid; a druid-based forum). But Raffy opened up the original program, Catus, to monks, in the form of Zephyrus.

    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574

    Keep in mind there is a known issue dealing with the legendary gem right now and should be fixed in the next release; Version 12.
    Last edited by Hinalover; 2013-05-23 at 09:30 AM.

  4. #1124
    High Overlord Drweird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Zephyrus is a Java-based program that calculates the best gemming/reforging/re-enchanting to provide you a 1.01/1/1 ratio while you have Rune equipped. It basically tries to get you as close to even as possible between your mastery, crit, haste. It was originally made for Feral druids (given that it's being posted on Fluiddruid; a druid-based forum). But Raffy opened up the original program, Catus, to monks, in the form of Zephyrus.

    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574

    Keep in mind there is a known issue dealing with the legendary gem right now and should be fixed in the next release; Version 12.
    Does this mean it does not factor in the 300+ crit recieved from the meta gem?

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 11:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Zephyrus is a Java-based program that calculates the best gemming/reforging/re-enchanting to provide you a 1.01/1/1 ratio while you have Rune equipped. It basically tries to get you as close to even as possible between your mastery, crit, haste. It was originally made for Feral druids (given that it's being posted on Fluiddruid; a druid-based forum). But Raffy opened up the original program, Catus, to monks, in the form of Zephyrus.

    http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4574

    Keep in mind there is a known issue dealing with the legendary gem right now and should be fixed in the next release; Version 12.
    Thank you so much for this. It has revolutionized my world. Also, I seemed to have no inherent issue with the legendary meta gem. Is that a case-by-case issue?

    Also I revert back to my original question, do you guys pop TeB ONLY when Rune procs or is it when any trinket procs? Or say on Tortos I have no rune proc but the bats are up and I'm on bat dps duty. Do I just wait it out, or slam TeB to get increased AoE damage?

  5. #1125
    The Patient pattison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feinyr View Post
    What do you guys think of going full expertise hybrid gems instead of agi? With the now achievable item level on the weapons those 1000k crits are no rarity anymore.. should we push our secondaries even more? I see Reqfu going this route with sick amounts of haste and others gemming full agi. Is there a way to calculate what way of those results in better dps?
    If you have rune you should be gemming for expertise+secondaries or full expertise, whichever gives you better outcome in terms of secondaries.

    If you don't have rune then stick to the agi gems.

  6. #1126
    I do have the rune, but I am still curious why Reqfu does go the expertise route and Calligraphy still goes the agi route. Both have good gear and write guides, but follow different strategies. Additionally Reqfu does a fully 1:1:1 reforge, while Calligraphy said that he is happy @ 7800 haste. I do know that there is a point of personal preference, but maybe you guys could elaborate why you gear in that specific way a little more detailed.

  7. #1127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drweird View Post
    Is there a reforge addon you use to help with min maxing so you have 1 more point of mastery than anything else? or you just shoot from the hip and tinker like a motherfucker?
    I use a small utility called Janky Reforge. Can't remember where I found it, but it's made by Janxspirit@Illidan(US). The advantage it has over Zephyrus is that it takes gems and enchants into consideration (last time I used Zephyrus, it did not do that).

    Regarding TEB usage timing, there are 3 priorities I usually look at:
    1. Is Roro buff up and about to expire? If yes, hit TEB; if not, then:
    2. Do you have 18+ stacks of TEB? If yes, hit TEB; if not, then:
    3. Do you need to nuke something fast and hard? If yes, hit TEB.
    There will be some situations where I would deviate from these rules, for example, if there's some change of phase happening and I'm not gonna attack anything for 5-10 seconds. But in general, it works fine.
    Last edited by Crevan; 2013-05-23 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Correct an inaccuracy.

  8. #1128
    Considering Calligraphy already has 0.9% expertise over the cap, it would be pretty silly of him or her to gem more expertise. If expertise is worthless, of course you gem agi.

  9. #1129
    True.. missed the fact that he uses renatakis

  10. #1130
    Ranked 74 on Jin'rok heroic first night of using RoR in a real raid.

    Promptly got knocked down to 100~ish after everyone else who'd upgraded their gear was done raiding and uploading and re-ranking =P still pretty happy with the ranking.


    Question: Is my 2PC worth using if I have to sacrifice several ilvl of gear to get it? 4PC is not currently available to me. 2PC seems pretty worthless in practice.

  11. #1131
    Moderator Alysmera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feinyr View Post
    True.. missed the fact that he uses renatakis
    Yep, exactly the reason why I am using agi. And the problem will be worse this weekend when I upgrade Renataki's

    Trendy, 2p requires much movement to make the most of. I often strafe back and forth just to receive any benefit from it. I don't believe it is much of an upgrade if you do not do that, but the spheres are nice when you want to save some on fights like Iron Qon or Megaera and can use them as needed.

  12. #1132
    Hi guys!

    Running my char through simcraft (patchwerk fight, 10k iterations) is giving me some strange results in stat weights.
    I rarely ever use FoF (after what I've tested it does not proc the meta, plus its hard to get it right, just using it for the stun), so I removed it from the rotation.

    The stat weights I'm getting:
    Agi:4.50
    Haste: 3.10
    Crit: 2.12
    Mastery: 1.88

    Does the fact that i have the meta + 2x rppm trinkets really change the priority that much? :/ Shold I go full out haste? Or just stick with the agi gemming the guide suggests?
    Armory in the description!

    Thanks
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  13. #1133
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    Yep, exactly the reason why I am using agi. And the problem will be worse this weekend when I upgrade Renataki's

    Trendy, 2p requires much movement to make the most of. I often strafe back and forth just to receive any benefit from it. I don't believe it is much of an upgrade if you do not do that, but the spheres are nice when you want to save some on fights like Iron Qon or Megaera and can use them as needed.
    But if I'm gaining say ~5 ilvl instead of 2pc, is it a gain or loss over fights like qon and megara?

  14. #1134
    Moderator Alysmera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haw0kk View Post
    Hi guys!

    Running my char through simcraft (patchwerk fight, 10k iterations) is giving me some strange results in stat weights.
    I rarely ever use FoF (after what I've tested it does not proc the meta, plus its hard to get it right, just using it for the stun), so I removed it from the rotation.

    The stat weights I'm getting:
    Agi:4.50
    Haste: 3.10
    Crit: 2.12
    Mastery: 1.88

    Does the fact that i have the meta + 2x rppm trinkets really change the priority that much? :/ Shold I go full out haste? Or just stick with the agi gemming the guide suggests?
    Armory in the description!

    Thanks
    Short answer: yes. Long answer: RPPM scaled with haste and that is why its value increases so dramatically.

    Trendy, I would sim it. Our 2p is more of a QoL thing and a pretty minimal gain IMO. Chances are, if it is an OVERALL 5 ilevel increase (as in, for your overall char vs. swapping from 502 hands to 507) I can see that being significant enough to justify.

  15. #1135
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    Short answer: yes. Long answer: RPPM scaled with haste and that is why its value increases so dramatically.
    Yes as in that I should change all my agi gems to pure haste? :O
    Havn't seen any monk do that!
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  16. #1136
    Moderator Alysmera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haw0kk View Post
    Yes as in that I should change all my agi gems to pure haste? :O
    Havn't seen any monk do that!
    Personally, for reds, I use agi + crit or + whatever (since I am using RoRO).

    Looking at your armory, I'm not sure if I'd run with 9K haste, however. You should be fine between 6 and 8K. The rest can either be pure agi for red slots, or agi+whatever for yellow.

  17. #1137
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    Personally, for reds, I use agi + crit or + whatever (since I am using RoRO).

    Looking at your armory, I'm not sure if I'd run with 9K haste, however. You should be fine between 6 and 8K. The rest can either be pure agi for red slots, or agi+whatever for yellow.
    The 9k+ haste reforge I logged out with was just me testing a bit, simcraft showed it as a nealy 3k dps gain (and is still saying that 2 haste > 1 agi), and tbh I liked the feel of it Though I just tested it on a dummy, not fully raidbuffed, wich I know isn't good testing at all.

    Usually I run with about 7.2k haste and rest into crit, but I'll have to test this high haste reforge in a raid because I liked it
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  18. #1138
    Quote Originally Posted by alysmera View Post
    Short answer: yes. Long answer: RPPM scaled with haste and that is why its value increases so dramatically.

    Trendy, I would sim it. Our 2p is more of a QoL thing and a pretty minimal gain IMO. Chances are, if it is an OVERALL 5 ilevel increase (as in, for your overall char vs. swapping from 502 hands to 507) I can see that being significant enough to justify.
    Thanks for the advice.

    Unfortunately before I could get around to this, I got my OS tier legs last night which finally allowed me to wear 4pc. I'm losing thunderforged chest and heroic jin'rok head in the process, but the 4pc is clearly worth the loss. I'm going to be asking our RL/GM if he minds letting the other tanks deal with tanking next week so I can practice DPS'ing. (They could also use a break from being made emo by tanking with my brewmaster...)

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 07:08 AM ----------

    P.S.
    Hopefully I'm not the only one who had this problem or I'll feel real silly, but, for anyone wondering or anyone who's potentially going to use Zephyrus in the future... the Compare to Armory button is really the "Show me the shit I need to change to actually get me the numbers you're showing me" button... which frankly wasn't clear to me, idk why, it makes sense, it just didn't register in my brain as the "tell me what to do" button.

    Now that I got that sorted my stats are all nice and balanced.

  19. #1139
    Quick question. I see Mrrobot has their softcap for haste at 9250. Does this seem a little high for any of you. I seem to like mine at around 7000. Are there any WW monks out there running this high on haste in heroic 25 mans. Please check out my armory profile and feel free critique. I'm and the Brewzlee on the Durotan server.

  20. #1140
    Stat priorities are in the OP with, without, etc, set bonuses and RoR.

    If you have RoR you'll be reforging for balance and your haste will never get that high.

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