Bounty Hunter - PowerTech - Advice

[WarpedAcorn]

So I am almost done with my Bounty Hunter (level 42 and on Belsavis). I'm not happy with the class though. I've always heard and read how Powertech's are PvP monsters and powerhouses, but as far as I can tell it just is not translating to the PvE realm. Its not *hard*, but the playstyle is just not that fun or enganging, and that leads me to believe I am doing something wrong.

I've tried the Prototype (Middle) and Pyro (Right) tree, but have not tried the tanking tree. I'm not sure if that's actually better for leveling. I use Mako since she makes us have very little downtime. I tried Blizz, but I was having to heal after every couple of mobs. I have not used any of the pure DPS characters for more than a single fight due to downtime issues.

In combat, I feel the only time something significant ever happens is when I can get a Rail Shot proc. I'm wondering if I'm missing a key element here. Usually I toss the Explosive Grenade (31-Point Pyro) and then really on use Rocket Punch and Flame Burst until I get a Rail Shot proc. Situationally I'll use some AoE if I can tag more than 2 mobs. On Silver or Gold mobs I also work in the Incendiary Missile (it costs too much Heat otherwise). Am I missing anything?

In all honesty the gameplay just might not be in line with what I find fun. I've loved Marauder and Assassin styles, and also the Sniper (level 30).

[Ghosty]

Pyro is not that complicated of a rotation. At range > 10m TD -> IM -> RS -> RP or FB (depending on range) to proc -> RS. After that you have 6 seconds until your next RS proc, so you will weave default attack and FB to manage heat. Then rinse repeat. Spamming FB is bad you generally want to use it every other global at most, so get used to using your default attack in between otherwise you will over heat. In PvP I don't use IM at all unless I need to get a target burning for a RS and they are > 10m away, otherwise I would FB to get a target burning. In PvE you would only reapply IM when the dot falls off and try to time it with the cooldown of Thermal Sensor Override. The challenging part of the playing pyro is heat management while maintaining high sustained dps, which does not shine through while leveling.

AP does not have the Heat management issues that Pyro does and has a bit of a more complex rotation and set of procs to watch, and you can run around with Ion Cylinder thus taking less damage, but still able to put out good dps. While I leveled my Vanguard as a tank, if I was to do it over I would probably level Tactics (AP) as you get the best of both worlds. AP does not have the burst that Pyro does, but AP can put up similar sustained numbers. AP also has much more utility over Pyro.

[Kelimbror]

I tend to pull really high numbers/rewards from PvP as pyro, but you really have to use a unique playstyle to achieve it. It really doesn't translate very well to the leveling process. I eventually got bored of playing the PT, because my goal wasn't *just* to be a tank. Pyro is good at weaving in and out of people, finishing low health people with burst at range or melee, and annoying the piss out of everyone.

Between grapple, interrupts, stun, and using your taunts every CD, PT's are easy to rack up WZ medals with. I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy. I rerolled a Merc and it felt a lot better in the long run. Maybe you should try rolling one up until at least tracer missiles to see the difference in gameplay?

[WarpedAcorn]

I tend to pull really high numbers/rewards from PvP as pyro, but you really have to use a unique playstyle to achieve it. It really doesn't translate very well to the leveling process. I eventually got bored of playing the PT, because my goal wasn't *just* to be a tank. Pyro is good at weaving in and out of people, finishing low health people with burst at range or melee, and annoying the piss out of everyone.

Between grapple, interrupts, stun, and using your taunts every CD, PT's are easy to rack up WZ medals with. I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy. I rerolled a Merc and it felt a lot better in the long run. Maybe you should try rolling one up until at least tracer missiles to see the difference in gameplay?

Its way too late to reroll, but I will take your advice when I get to the Trooper (after I finish Agent) and put him as a Commando. For now I will probably finish up the BH as a Powertech, max out Companion affection, and have the character the first on the chopping block should I need another character slot.

And I agree about the PvP aspect. In Warzones I don't feel like I lack for anything (other than a knockback) and can dish out big numbers while also supporting my team. But you're absolutely right that it just doesn't translate to the leveling process. Good to know I'm not crazy.

[Ghosty]

I tend to pull really high numbers/rewards from PvP as pyro, but you really have to use a unique playstyle to achieve it. It really doesn't translate very well to the leveling process. I eventually got bored of playing the PT, because my goal wasn't *just* to be a tank. Pyro is good at weaving in and out of people, finishing low health people with burst at range or melee, and annoying the piss out of everyone.

Between grapple, interrupts, stun, and using your taunts every CD, PT's are easy to rack up WZ medals with. I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy. I rerolled a Merc and it felt a lot better in the long run. Maybe you should try rolling one up until at least tracer missiles to see the difference in gameplay?

I don't want to sound like jerk, but if you can't solo anyone or anything as a Pyro in pvp then you are doing something terribly wrong. Pryo's are one of the few classes that can reliably solo kill an Op/Smugg healer, it's not easy but when you know how to counter them you can kill them regularly, and is an over match for all the ranged classes save the sniper/gunslinger. A fight with a sniper/gunslinger often comes down to who shot who first, and whether or not your are able to LoS the Sniper. For the melee classes, I tend to have trouble with well played Tankasins, and Annihilation Muarders as they can be tough to kite.

As far as Merc and Commandos go, right now they are probably the worst DPS class in pvp, because of the ease at which they can be shut down, in PvE content they are pretty beastly since many of the Ops boss fights are ranged friendly and they can tear things up if they are not locked down.

[Kelimbror]

I don't want to sound like jerk, but if you can't solo anyone or anything as a Pyro in pvp then you are doing something terribly wrong. Pryo's are one of the few classes that can reliably solo kill an Op/Smugg healer, it's not easy but when you know how to counter them you can kill them regularly, and is an over match for all the ranged classes save the sniper/gunslinger. A fight with a sniper/gunslinger often comes down to who shot who first, and whether or not your are able to LoS the Sniper. For the melee classes, I tend to have trouble with well played Tankasins, and Annihilation Muarders as they can be tough to kite.

As far as Merc and Commandos go, right now they are probably the worst DPS class in pvp, because of the ease at which they can be shut down, in PvE content they are pretty beastly since many of the Ops boss fights are ranged friendly and they can tear things up if they are not locked down.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have no problems in PVP as a Merc. I tend to stay away from other people and blast them at range....possibly b/c I'm a ranged class. Two knockbacks, a stun, an interrupt...yeah.

Also let me quote myself, since apparently this: "I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy" translates to "if you can't solo anyone or anything as a Pyro in pvp then you are doing something terribly wrong". Then you go on to say "it's not easy but when you know how to counter".... Just let that sink in.

I also fail to see how a half melee class with little ranged burst is so adept at destroying ranged. If you are pyro spec, all you have for a gap closer is grapple and half your time you are spamming autoshots. You don't have a charge, you don't have anything.

[Jalek]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have no problems in PVP as a Merc. I tend to stay away from other people and blast them at range....possibly b/c I'm a ranged class. Two knockbacks, a stun, an interrupt...yeah.

Also let me quote myself, since apparently this: "I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy" translates to "if you can't solo anyone or anything as a Pyro in pvp then you are doing something terribly wrong". Then you go on to say "it's not easy but when you know how to counter".... Just let that sink in.

I also fail to see how a half melee class with little ranged burst is so adept at destroying ranged. If you are pyro spec, all you have for a gap closer is grapple and half your time you are spamming autoshots. You don't have a charge, you don't have anything.

But if you get in close you have perma-snare and interrupts on a pretty short CD as well as 2 stuns. So yes, PTs are good vs ranged

[Drakos]

I play the rep version and while the the gameplay at 50 is different than levelling(only in the same way alot of classes are in that the top talent changes things) they are very effective. As to issues soloing people that is all about skill, one of the great early PvP memories I have on my vg was soloing a WH Marauder while in BM/recruit gear myself then and heading off to cap the node at 70% health. Time AP(TD for imps) along with your rotation and you can blow alot of people up 1v1.

[Ghosty]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I have no problems in PVP as a Merc. I tend to stay away from other people and blast them at range....possibly b/c I'm a ranged class. Two knockbacks, a stun, an interrupt...yeah.

An interrupt? Really? Merc/Commando is the only AC in the game that does not have an interrupt, so please let me know what this interrupt that you have is.

Also let me quote myself, since apparently this: "I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy" translates to "if you can't solo anyone or anything as a Pyro in pvp then you are doing something terribly wrong". Then you go on to say "it's not easy but when you know how to counter".... Just let that sink in.

Nice job of cherry picking my post to twist what I stated. I specifically stated that it's not easy to solo kill a Smuggler/Op Healer. Give it a try on your Merc, I'm sure that healer will be laughing at you the entire time. Pyro's are all about burst dps and burst dps is what get's kills in PvP. There are only few classes that give a Pyro a hard time in 1v1 PvP.

I also fail to see how a half melee class with little ranged burst is so adept at destroying ranged. If you are pyro spec, all you have for a gap closer is grapple and half your time you are spamming autoshots. You don't have a charge, you don't have anything.

Well like I said in my original post, you are doing something very wrong. Pryo's have a 2 second 50% snare on FB, a 30yd. 4 second stun, and grapple to use to close distance. All of a Pyro's initial burst is set up from range, the Pryo only needs to get into 0-10m range long enough to reset RS every six seconds or so. In a Pyro vs. Ranged class battle, once a Pryo gets the target into 0-10m range the target is going to have a difficult time getting away due to the snare that has no cool down so it can be reapplied at will. If the target tries to face tank the Pyro they will most likely lose. You mention knock backs, most knock backs won't push the Pyro out of effective range (Scorc and Merc RP) as the Pyro will still be with in 10m to use FB to snare and reset RS. The longer range knock backs (Sniper/Merc) of these two the merc one is easily countered with grapple or the ranged stun. The sniper one because of the root and cover is harder to deal with, but the Pyro would pop shield, ranged stun (if the sniper is not entrenched) and use ranged attacks until the root is gone, then close distance or los the Sniper (if the Sniper is Entrenched you would want to LoS them until it's gone). You don't have to worry about the Sniper running away, because if they do, the Pyro got them out of cover and have already won.

Anyone that has spent any decent amount of time PvPing in this game know that Merc/Commando DPS are the weakest PvP specs in the game. Sure they do great dps if left alone, but any decent team will kill them first because they are among the easiest to kill when targeted. Meanwhile, Pyro are considered one of the better performing pvp specs, and considered OP by many. So if you are having trouble killing things "quickly or easily" with your Pyro then you might be undergeared or not fully grasping what the spec is capable of.

[Kelimbror]

An interrupt? Really? Merc/Commando is the only AC in the game that does not have an interrupt, so please let me know what this interrupt that you have is.

This was mistyping, meant to include it with the PT as part of the annoyance.

Nice job of cherry picking my post to twist what I stated. I specifically stated that it's not easy to solo kill a Smuggler/Op Healer. Give it a try on your Merc, I'm sure that healer will be laughing at you the entire time. Pyro's are all about burst dps and burst dps is what get's kills in PvP. There are only few classes that give a Pyro a hard time in 1v1 PvP.

I specifically quoted your words. I never said that you would die in PvP, or that I wasn't capable of killing anything. I said it takes a long time and it requires more action/thought, IE it isn't easy. Please tell me again how you don't understand simple sentences, but I understand yours completely...even though they are responding to made up reasoning. Pyros have very little abilities that do damage, when balanced with managing heat. If you are at range you can apply a dot, RS if it is up/procs, unload on a CD, use waste of heat abilities, or 'auto shoot'. Just because they can survive and still kill people doesn't mean they will be fun or easy to play.

In fact I already told him that you get great results with a Pyro, but you have to really be experienced/use your head to PvP as one. Please reread the original statements for clarity, since you seem to have none.

*snip*..Anyone that has spent any decent amount of time PvPing in this game know that Merc/Commando DPS are the weakest PvP specs in the game. Sure they do great dps if left alone, but any decent team will kill them first because they are among the easiest to kill when targeted. Meanwhile, Pyro are considered one of the better performing pvp specs, and considered OP by many. So if you are having trouble killing things "quickly or easily" with your Pyro then you might be undergeared or not fully grasping what the spec is capable of.

Once again you might not fully grasp a basic knowledge of English. Please tell me where I said Pyros are terrible and I have no knowledge of the spec...oh wait you can't.

Let's not even forget that he was saying that he isn't finding PT is translating from everyone's comments saying they are PVP beasts into questing/raids. My response indicated that I PVP and do well based on how unique the class is, but then touched on why that doesn't translate into PVE b/c you can't kill things quickly/easily.

Then I suggested he try a Merc up to tracer missiles as a REPSONSE TO PVE. Please get your head right, but I won't continue to clutter up forums dissecting your misunderstanding. Thanks.

[Ghosty]

This was mistyping, meant to include it with the PT as part of the annoyance.


I specifically quoted your words. I never said that you would die in PvP, or that I wasn't capable of killing anything. I said it takes a long time and it requires more action/thought, IE it isn't easy. Please tell me again how you don't understand simple sentences, but I understand yours completely...even though they are responding to made up reasoning. Pyros have very little abilities that do damage, when balanced with managing heat. If you are at range you can apply a dot, RS if it is up/procs, unload on a CD, use waste of heat abilities, or 'auto shoot'. Just because they can survive and still kill people doesn't mean they will be fun or easy to play.

In fact I already told him that you get great results with a Pyro, but you have to really be experienced/use your head to PvP as one. Please reread the original statements for clarity, since you seem to have none.


Once again you might not fully grasp a basic knowledge of English. Please tell me where I said Pyros are terrible and I have no knowledge of the spec...oh wait you can't.

Let's not even forget that he was saying that he isn't finding PT is translating from everyone's comments saying they are PVP beasts into questing/raids. My response indicated that I PVP and do well based on how unique the class is, but then touched on why that doesn't translate into PVE b/c you can't kill things quickly/easily.

Then I suggested he try a Merc up to tracer missiles as a REPSONSE TO PVE. Please get your head right, but I won't continue to clutter up forums dissecting your misunderstanding. Thanks.

Maybe try rereading your own post and get a grasp on your own use of English. My misunderstanding of your posting is due to your failure to be clear about what you were attempting to get across to the OP. Not once in your reply do you mention PvE. I've quoted it below so you can reread it. I love when people use the "basic knowledge of English" replies. All your posts here show you neither gasp the Pyro spec nor what point you were initially trying to get across. Either way I'm done replying to your ignorance.

I tend to pull really high numbers/rewards from PvP as pyro, but you really have to use a unique playstyle to achieve it. It really doesn't translate very well to the leveling process. I eventually got bored of playing the PT, because my goal wasn't *just* to be a tank. Pyro is good at weaving in and out of people, finishing low health people with burst at range or melee, and annoying the piss out of everyone.

Between grapple, interrupts, stun, and using your taunts every CD, PT's are easy to rack up WZ medals with. I don't find as Pyro that I am able to solo anyone/thing very quickly or easy. I rerolled a Merc and it felt a lot better in the long run. Maybe you should try rolling one up until at least tracer missiles to see the difference in gameplay?

[WarpedAcorn]

I understood what you were saying Kitty, but I also see where Ghosty misinterpretted due to formatting.

No big deal guys.


But yeah when I PvP as Pyro-Powertech I am a beastly juggernaut (not that one) mowing down fools. I won't say that's *not* fun, but the LoSing and kiting aspects are not generally my cup of tea. I like the Marauder flavor of being up in the enemy's face or the Snipers flavor of mobile turreting. Without a doubt Merc's are basically free kills in PvP, ranking just above DPS Operatives and DPS Sorcs on my personal list of "Easy to Kill Targets".

PvE is the side of the story I was more referencing with this thread, as I have not been impressed with the class and spec at all. In fact I felt infinitely more deadly and durable as a Sith Assassin. Commando will be the way I go for my Trooper though. Right now my goal is just to see all the class stories, so end game viability is not really my concern.

[Kelimbror]

I understood what you were saying Kitty, but I also see where Ghosty misinterpretted due to formatting.

No big deal guys.


But yeah when I PvP as Pyro-Powertech I am a beastly juggernaut (not that one) mowing down fools. I won't say that's *not* fun, but the LoSing and kiting aspects are not generally my cup of tea. I like the Marauder flavor of being up in the enemy's face or the Snipers flavor of mobile turreting. Without a doubt Merc's are basically free kills in PvP, ranking just above DPS Operatives and DPS Sorcs on my personal list of "Easy to Kill Targets".

PvE is the side of the story I was more referencing with this thread, as I have not been impressed with the class and spec at all. In fact I felt infinitely more deadly and durable as a Sith Assassin. Commando will be the way I go for my Trooper though. Right now my goal is just to see all the class stories, so end game viability is not really my concern.

I apologize for not directing my comments in a more helpful way for you. It did ramble towards sounding PVP oriented. After leveling both BH classes to 50, I can tell you that doing quests and leveling as a PowerTech does feel slow and clunky compared to a Merc. I think you will find the class more enjoyable overall when you level your trooper that way.

[WarpedAcorn]

Having completed my play experience of the Powertech, I can honestly say that no class has baffled me as much as this. On the one hand, in the PvE realm, I never felt like a beast mowing down enemies. While on the other, in the PvP realm, I dish out numbers I've rarely put out except on my Sentinel. Its the strangest thing.

[Jalek]

Having completed my play experience of the Powertech, I can honestly say that no class has baffled me as much as this. On the one hand, in the PvE realm, I never felt like a beast mowing down enemies. While on the other, in the PvP realm, I dish out numbers I've rarely put out except on my Sentinel. Its the strangest thing.

You probably are mowing things down in PVE, just if you aren't using a dps meter you might not notice it. It also depends a lot on how you manage your heat, if you are trying to burn someone in PVP you might overheat just as you kill someone then die and your heat is reset, but in PVE you need to manage it more closely for extended dps time.

[Keren]

Don't know what you talk about low pyro in pve, I get 1600-1750 dps on any EC HM Boss. Overall thats the top end dps a pyro can reach, but is rarely behind anyone due to its range possebilities and heat management. Let alone that any bossfight you will need a nice sorc to give you a grip against aggro!

Also as clearing in the lvl-phase a pyro with a trimmed Mako have nearly no downtime! It is helpful to watch the heal cd's on mako, because outfight she just want to move by your side. So bind the heals and let her heal even after you got outfight, after the heal she will "teleport" back to your side anyways. Thus you will 20-40% more heal out of your mako. Also gear with power is very helpful and maybe a cheap presence flask. But with all this you can savely do 2HC quest and some of the 4hc quest alone.

[Stormcall]

You probably are mowing things down in PVE, just if you aren't using a dps meter you might not notice it.

While killing things in PvE isn't a problem per se, I most definitely notice that my vanguard doesn't kill things nearly as fast as my merc, juggernaut, sniper, or assassin do. Can't imagine it'd be that much different for a powertech since they're the vanguard mirror...

[WarpedAcorn]

While killing things in PvE isn't a problem per se, I most definitely notice that my vanguard doesn't kill things nearly as fast as my merc, juggernaut, sniper, or assassin do. Can't imagine it'd be that much different for a powertech since they're the vanguard mirror...

This is pretty much my assessment. Its true that with Mako I had little to no downtime, but I most certainly was not killing mobs as quick as my Sniper, Assassin, or Marauder.

Conversely, in PvP bodies were just engulfed in flames and I hit higher numbers without any extra effort (or pocket healing).

[Keren]

Its a little bit of funny, because i dumped my lvl 30 sniper because he wasn't fast enough for me the most time gone for positioning and healing myself, dont know how it will be in higher levels, my sniper will not reach them. An the contrary my mara needs 3 attack for a normal mob on my lvl (4x) which I suspect is normal and not fast. Nevertheless I respecced ti annihilate for lower downtime/more selfhealing
However I really like BH anyway, thus my memories from level her seems to be affected.

[Ghosty]

This is pretty much my assessment. Its true that with Mako I had little to no downtime, but I most certainly was not killing mobs as quick as my Sniper, Assassin, or Marauder.

Conversely, in PvP bodies were just engulfed in flames and I hit higher numbers without any extra effort (or pocket healing).

One of the major reasons is because of the nerf to the radius of DFA/Mortar Volley, which is basically useless while leveling now. Prior to the nerf you could just throw a sticky grenade at the melee target and mortar volley down groups, then grenade/pulse cannon the next group. Now with the limited radius of DFA/Mortar Volley it's not optimum to use it since it might only hit 1 or 2 mobs in a pack, so if Pulse cannon is on CD, you pretty much have to single target every thing down. The problem with Pryo/Assualt single target in leveling PvE is that the standard mobs barely live through a full rotation, and at some point you are waiting on HiB/RS to proc, so you are just spamming default attack so as not to deplete ammo/cap heat.

This is why I said earlier in the thread, that if I was to level another Vanguard or Powertech in PvE, I would most likely go with Tactics/Advanced Prototype. Much less worries about heat, you can use Ion Cell/Ion Gas Cylinder when needed, and a fully charged up Pulse Canon/Flame Thrower will devastate packs of mobs even with Strongs mixed in.