"Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus
Besides, I don't think it has anything to do with skills. It's the other stuff. Quite a lot of females are simply what you'd call attention whores. Females also tend to cause drama in guilds, even if they dont try it. 24 males and 1 females in a raid group is just a time bomb with several of the males flirting, or at least wishing they were flirting with that female.
Last edited by Hinaaja; 2012-08-16 at 08:58 AM.
Echoing what many have said: our 8/8 H guild doesn't discriminate. In fact, our star healer is a woman.
In my personal experience, I seem to notice more "bad" female players, but I highly doubt it's actually any more common; I'm probably just taking notice because girls are rare in the first place.
I don't really mean the disrespect, but it's sort of how I have never met a Brazilian gamer who has been good at gaming, I have never met a woman who without specific training and instruction, was good at a game. It makes it really hard to take either of them seriously, especially in a high end gaming environment. Honestly it shouldn't be a factor though, things like reputations, personality, logs, and knowledge should take precedence over gender.
I don't think it's about the "lol girls cant play" bs and more about removing the distraction. Its like male/female only schools they remove the opposite sex just to remove any possibility of distraction/drama associated with them. After all most hardcore guilds are there to raid and not to socialize.
Just my $0.02
Last edited by sirnoobalots; 2012-08-16 at 09:17 AM.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are nice and crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
It is the Drama.
I've seen Whores tear entire guilds apart just by turning guys against one another.
Sooo much fucking drama.
Though my HC guild did have some Females in it, they just were flirtatious hoebags. So it worked out.
My alliance main is 6/8 HM and I'm female with another female on the team. (10 man team)
My horde main is 5/8 HM and I'm female with at least FOUR other females on multiple seperate teams. (With myself being a main officer over them)
--Mind you, some of the best players I've met are both sexes.
I've been in guilds where the females are flirts and drama queens. I've been in other guilds its been the males. It's normally a balance of who you run into. I am not sure why a HC guild wouldn't want a player based on their sex....well....seeing how SOME females get their gear....
I've been in very bad positions where my Gm would be a husband and wife duo team....wife would hardly show up when she did she was handed loot without any thought. People just accepted it.
It depends on the person. The player. Whenever I've done interviews with raiders, I listen to how they talk, how they word things, what they do/don't know.
I could careless if it comes with something between it's legs or not. Do the job you signed up for.
I've actively raided heroic content with men and women. Our raid team in Firelands had three women raiding with us and they did a kick-ass job. We all treated these women like they were part of the group, no special and/or different treatment because they were of the opposite gender.
The reason drama ensues in girls isn't neccessarily because of the girls. It's because of the guys that can't objectively play the game without making a deal out of what gender people are. These people are the problem.
All four girls in our guild right now are being treated like any other and they prefer it that way.
Last edited by Ixuzcc; 2012-08-16 at 09:35 AM.
Good lord there certainly are alot of guys who've never raided with a decent female. I mean I know the ratio is like 1:4 ...
But god damn. I'm TERRIBLY sorry your experiences have been so shit but please at least try to imagine... visualize that there are women out there who can stick with a good guild for a long period of time and not muck anything up, pull their weight, never flirt or cause any drama.
It's not a lie. Most of us are just comfortable now in the guilds we're in and you don't see us.
I'm actually really disturbed by this thread. Really. This ...I don't WANT to argue with anyone here, but I would never consider being anyone who thinks so low of female Warcraft players, friend. This is just low low low. And I wouldn't ever want to be in a guild where my efforts are scorned just because I have a higher sounding voice. You treat me as you treat anyone, you'll generally receive favorable results from my raiding performance. No matter what that may be.
I have had ONE person in my guild. ONE react badly to the fact that I was an active female raider. He was promptly tossed upon his trial being over for malicious whispering. Did I bat an eyelid over it in guildchat? Nope. SS'd entire conversation, sent to officers. End of discussion, half the guild didn't even realize.
It wasn't friendly teasing like he 'was talking to mates' it was actively appalling behavior (since such habits tend to carry over into battlegrounds and pugs) and such that it would have demeaned the reputation of our guild.
that guild there, must really get a a lot of applications, lol. I kind off see why some guilds wouldn't want females in the raid group, we had a really shitty healer we had to boost because she was flashing tits for our officers on webcams, of couse not all women are like that but i'm just talking from my experience.
Ultimately, my point is that discriminating via any method of prejudice is a saving grace because it tells you that it's a group of people you don't want involved with. If a woman is causing drama, you deal with them the same way you would with a man causing drama; you tell them to cut it out, or you demote/remove them.
What you don't do, which is what you're doing, is generalize every female into someone that causes trouble wherever they go, purely because they're female.
I'm also reading your comment as an endorsement of the despicable statement made to a personal friend of mine.
I sincerely hope I'm misunderstanding you because, had I saw it in any guild I've been in, I'd have demanded an immediate apology on the spot and then ditched.
Nobody should have bigots use their genetic differences as beating sticks.
I would say not because of drama, but more of special care that female raiders often require. What is generally ok in the male team of players, females may seem unappropriate. Like swearing, harsh critics, punishment for failures. Even the widespread ( in some guilds ) loot problems are much more worse if female is in it, because they are rather rare in WoW ( and this is true ).
And if there is at least one male who likes/supports this female it all goes to drama. The problem is that if it is ok to say your male bro "man, you are playing like shit, what happend to you ?" or "-50 dkp for your blindness and shitty perfomance this try", "you messed up one more time, please go and rest" or maybe even some swearing is ok if someone messes up at 1%. Most females will find it offensive. Maybe this is in their nature, but i just hate when females in guild get special treatment just because they are girls. Most women play worse then men, but in most cases they even can't figure it out because they get much less critics, punishment and they are not pushed to top perfomance.
Speaking about my experience - i was playing in medium hardcore guilds, no world firsts, but full HM in proper time and even region 3rd lich king for example. My brother got regional 1 lich HM kill and he has same experience.
And in each and every guild girls got special treatment, they were blinded by it and really thought that they are good players.
I've played with many excellent female players, but I will say I have seen a lot of situations where drama ensues because of a lonely guy looking for a WoW girlfriend and to the same coin I've seen some females exploit that to get gear etc. But any guild making it a rule to discriminate and generalize just because it may avoid some potential drama is a sad lot indeed and imo not worth your time, there's plenty of hardcore raid guilds that don't employ social ignorance in their recruiting methods.
On another note, that guild should definitely name change to <Sausage Party>
My Main: Holybeatdown the Insane
Other than that: I've raided with plenty of pretty good female players over the years and what I like(d) about most:
They are/were pretty reliable most of the time - both with attendance and their performance, although most of them didn't really top the meters, none of them were dead weight either.
So I'm all for female raiders, if they don't go down the attention/loot whore or drama queen route (though there are plenty of "drama kings" aswell) - I always treat all female raiders just like their male counterparts, if you fuck up repeatedly, I will let you know and/or inform the raidleader about it, if you do good, I will compliment you on your "awesome performance" and not whisper you "pics plz".
Modern society is a strange thing, women demand the exact same rights as the men and at the same time expect special behaviour towards them and special treatment. As almost all warcraft players are part of the real-life society they ( i mean all players, men and women) project this real life model into the game world.
That is why i do not like raiding with girls/women, while almost in every guild there are at least few such players. And that is why i perfectly understand why some guild leaders do not want to see women in their raid.
To be completely honest when i remember my past guilds, there were women playing just like normal people, without feminine chats, flirting with officers/gms, demands and expectation of special behaviour. They were a good part of the guild and i even did not pay attention to the fact that they are actually females
Last edited by Grendizerx; 2012-08-16 at 11:29 AM.
Gamer". It's WoW.
The sheer stupidity of this comment amazes me. Truly.
Last edited by Winter Blossom; 2012-08-16 at 12:45 PM.