To be honest i have never seen female top damage dealers in any logs.
To be honest i have never seen female top damage dealers in any logs.
Last edited by Grendizerx; 2012-08-16 at 12:24 PM.
We've had 2 active women raiding in our group since Cata launch, and we're 8/8 hc. Not saying we're beast or server first or anything.
Last edited by Fullblod; 2012-08-16 at 12:24 PM.
It's curious to me that people always blame women for drama, or say they never top meters and/or logs. Simple fact, most of this game is male population. Of course there's going to be less of a chance for a female player to be 'the one'. I will also say, women who WANT to raid at that level, as a competitive player, do NOT cause drama. The only drama there is from men who can't keep it in their pants, and blame it on the lady. I see there's already some of these posting. Lovely, really.
A female Shadow Priest in my Guild regularly hits 69k on Heroic Madness.
It isn't that women are not good at the game that they are banned from top guilds, its the VERY real fact that their presence causes problems in a game that is dominated by men. Hearing that female voice in vent, talking to them in Guild - these things trigger the male hormones. When you have a woman in a guild you are basically lighting a fuse where all the men are going to see each other as competition.
This causes drama. It always does. Even if it is a minor, personal drama thanks to the will of the raiders in your Guild it is there.
Hell, my Guild is comprised of an almost 1:1 ratio of men and women and that stuff is pretty much something we constantly deal with. Luckily after five years of running the same Guild, fixing these types of issues has become second nature.
The whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me. Implying women are bad raiders. Have a look at Paragon and Method that both had several female raiders in the previous expansions, also getting world firsts.
---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 02:36 PM ----------
And how did you come to the conclusion that women in general lack co-ordination? It's pretty arrogant to think like that.
I think you need to read through this thread more thoroughly. You seem to be in the minority camp. And yes I agree with you, that is how most raiders should behave and treat others. But this thread... I'm disturbed by how many seem to think omitting female players is not only a positive, but should be encouraged.
There are negative representatives of both gender, no doubts at all. But the topic at hand was outlining a guild who had underlined a 'no women' policy. And the fact that a large number of people seem to leap to it's defense seem to smack a bit of 'insecure around women' syndrome or just haven't been in a guild with a woman who manages to raid with a bit of a decorum.
And I don't flirt, simply because there is always a danger of someone misconstruing intentions in EU guilds where all our accents sometimes make it difficult to measure levels of sincerity. It's just good manners around people you don't know. It's a hurdle we just have to sit and deal with, if we want to raid we kind of have to leave the more intense (yet obviously funny) sexual jokes at the door. And there are plenty of other ways to enjoy the evening. I make jokes frequently, but I can do it without mentioning the dirty, just takes a creative mind.
Or maybe my guild is too full of old people, I dunno. But we never seem to go down that route often. Seems a bit odd to do with people you only know via voice and photo. I don't make it a point to get to know people online any further than that.
Excuse me, but stop blaming the girls/women. From my experience its the guys that start the drama because of the girls, and then its not fair to blame the girls.
And I've been in a lot of guilds where there are guys having a major drama without any females involved. It's just that when a girl is whining, people get more annoyed for some reason I think.
There is absolutely no legitimate reason for excluding girls. Not one. "They cause drama" highlights a problem with management, not a problem with recruiting girls. Equally, there is no legitimate reason for excluding people of different colour, ethnicity, age or sexual proclivity.
I literally stunned that there are some people that think this is somehow okay.
Last edited by Zell the Stormbreaker; 2012-08-16 at 01:04 PM.
We had a girl in our core, she was very good at healing.
*General. Female speaking is kinda relaxing when you wipe, some toned up jokes, etc.
*Our raider. Very good at healing.
*General. Some people get distracted when a girl talks.
*Our rider. Fluctuating humor. Sometimes she was sleepy, sad or angry and whine about everything, turning "good points" to trash.
*Our rider. She went out frecuently and didnt get in time for riding. It is ok, I like the going-out aspect, but as raider, failing at that isnt good.
*Our rider. She went out of the country a full month (holydays). Too much for a raider.
How we "broke"?. When she returned from his holydays, we accidentally gave Maw to one of our healers (core), whe whined about, quit TS and /gquit. We said it was a confusion, but she was in a bad mood. Things are good now, but its main is on another guild.
While it is understandable that a serious progression group would like to eliminate the possibility of these kinds of issues cropping up in their group, the mere fact that it is a problem for them indicates that the problem most likely stems from a general inability of the boys in that group to deal with interacting with women.
During WotLK I played in a really awesome 25 man (erm, make the person )raid community. There were quite a few women in that group - normally 4-5 per raid. They performed just as well on aggregate as the guys in the group, and we never had any issues with bad male/female interactions.
In our current 10 person setup we have 4 ladies who fill spots in the raid lineup. They make up our core tanking team and probably our top dps. I personally hope that they feel comfortable raiding with the rest of us guys, and if there were any issues of inappropriate behaviour leading to tension in the raid group, I would make sure to address it properly with whomever is the root cause - and not just kick the women out to solve the problem.
That being said, I have landed up in pugs before with complete strangers and heard over vent how some guys go completely bonkers as soon as they hear a female voice on the other end. I have also seen how some women like to use the power they hold over some guys. But ultimately in any kind of adult environment, assuming someone is the stereotype is not only unfair, but pretty daft in the long run.
---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 03:38 PM ----------
Honestly, if some of those 24 males in the group can't handle themselves properly in the presence of a female, I don't see how that justifies punishing the female. A much more fair response is to address the few males who are the problem. And let's face it, if there is one female and 24 males in a group, odds are about 96% that the problem will originate from a male.
I'm not gonna say this about everyone but...There are two female raiders in my guild, both DPS. And they are consistently on the bottom of DPS charts. Warrior and Unholy DK both BiS (or very close too) as well.
And to be honest I've co-tanked some LFRs (on some DK alt) and I've had a female tank once that was just horrible. She never taunted when I needed it and would randomly taunt when she shouldn't have, so she ended up picking up more stacks of a boss debuff than she should have, and at the end of each fight she'd always be so cheerful and be like "yeah we did it" when I was popping some advils for the headache she was giving me.
I personally don't think a lot of women try to be as competitive as a lot of the male players, and then to go further only some male players are really competetive compared to others. Of course that isn't to say every woman, but I'd definitely say on average it's true.
At the beginning of cata I was in a 10 man raiding guild where the guild master was a 16yr old Canadian girl, while the rest of the raiding team were males ages 18-21. She still to this day is an extremely good player, but the guild fell apart because of all the shit most of the raid gave her all the time (sexual harassment mainly). I've found a more mature guild since.