"Oh, wretched ephemeral race, children of chance and misery, why do you compel me to tell you what it would be more expedient for you not to hear? What is best of all is utterly beyond your reach; not to be born, not to be, to be nothing. But the second best for you is --- to die soon." Silenus
I don't see why guilds do this, just because their female usually grants an instant sterotype that they're going to magically fail somehow. However, we have female's in our roster and their some of the best people we've ever had in our guild. I don't think people should pre-judge, it's wrong and straight up rude
Most guild are made of male players, and we all know what kind of guildies we have in the guild, especially the officers. Knowing the personalities of your guildies, officers will try to avoid drama to keep the guild functional. Sadly, sometimes avoid recruiting female raiders is a good way to avoid dealing with those possible problems.
Another possibility is that the GM doesn't want to be told that he is biased, there are politics within every HC guild(my opinion), and people will go out of their way to try and damage someone's reputation when things didn't go the way they want. There will be comparison etc, and it will only be magnified when there's a female raider in the mix.
I know the OP is upset about what he/she saw on the recruitment page of a HC guild, but seriously tho, if that's the case, move on and find another guild, it's not like you'd want to join them even if they make an exception for you.
Drama... fucking drama. Women don't have to do nothing, just their mere presence created drama. Let me tell you a couple of stories about women and why guilds may decide to not recruit them. Ever.
I raided in Inner Sanctum, Why Me and Apex for about 5 years among the top EU and world ranks, so I got some insight into the HC guilds perspective on guilds. These stories are things that happened while I was there.
First of all the pychological whore. The reason I say psychological whore, because she will manipulate people - as in male raiders - into being nice to her, helping her out and/or creating advantages within the guild for her by constantly dangling the possibility in front of them, that they will be the guy that finally gets to bang em. This is most effectively done to upwards of 5 guys at the same time, if you can achieve it, throw some guild leaders and officer in there for good measure. This creates a group of people that are constantly on stand-by, her stand-by, to do whatever and whenever, just cause they have a stick with gamer-pussy attached to it in front of them all the time. It is noteworthy that these chicks never give it up, ever. That is why they are psychological whores.
We had this one chick that was fooling around with the guild leader, the healing officer and about 5-6 raiders at the same time. She was quite the multitasking talent since she apparantly managed to keep 8 guys entertained entire evenings long with messaging and private vent-talking during raids. The results were originally quite harmless as she only got pets farmed by her pathetic fanclub, or the occasional passing on item xyz. It all went to shit, when she realized she wasn't just a psychological whore, but a grade-A bitch as well. She made her brother act like he was the recruitment officer of For the Horde and contact our main tank about recruiting him. She and her brother set up a fake interview for him, while he still pretended to be from FtH. Well, needless to say he got "accepted" and transferred to FtH, where noone knew him and he slowly realized he was trolled. Meanwhile we realized we didn't have a MT for progression anymore (mind you, this was during the time that you couldn't transfer all the time, you had to wait months or sumthing) for quite some time. She came clear about her practical joke shortly afterwards, but was not kicked, because she send the guild leader nudes. Took first illidan glaives as well. Quit and sold account day after completing set. Fuck her.
On to the unskilled girlfriend. This chick is in a relationship with a raider in your guild. He will bug everyone, all the time, about her and how she needs to be made a raider from being a friend. Preferably this girl is already dating the guild leader or one of the officers, makes her life alot easier. We will progress under the assumption she is hooking up with on of the officers/guild leaders here. This makes your life insanely horrible in every way, shape and form. She will fuck up, because she is a low-skilled and completely unusable raider. You will always have to kill stuff despite her, not because of her. Pray to god you will only get fights like M'uru once every expansion and she is dying while you are on progression for it, because behold the unskilled girlfriend, when she needs to do an important job, you are not gonna have a good time. She will fuck up on such a consitent basis, that you believe she does it on purpose. She will forget healing assignments, dps target orders, movement, ability tooltips and keybindings. She will no doubt have no shortage of cute outcries about how she is terribly sorry. Every try. For 3 weeks. And she will have a insanely loyal boyfriend that defends her all the time and you can't do shit about it, because he is an officer. You will try to reason with the other officers, even try to start a petition with 90% of the raider core to get her out, only to realize that the MT, guild leader, raid leader and overall most important person in the guild is banging her and you can't lose him over a her-or-us argument during progression. Ultimately you work with the problem and stop working against it, though you do try to hook up your MT with every decent female you find to get rid of the cancer you are raiding with.
Last but not least, we have the actual whore. This type of female is actually not the worst of the kind, the unskilled girlfriend takes that by far. This chick joins the guild and send out nudes within the first 14 days to several players. She is the kind of girl that suddenly is living with raider x and staying at raider y the next weekend. She will travel, she will put out quite easily. Guys will do the same thing that they attempt with the psychological whore, but this time around it actually works. Most likely this type of female was abused in her childhood and has attachement issues, well she is utterly mentally instable to put it blunt. She will need the constant acceptance and "love" of her fellow raiders, to feel worthy thus making her easy pray for lonely geeks raidin in wow. The biggest downside to this chick is that you will need to deal with her after banging. She will have nervous breakdowns while staying at your house and tell you how she needs you and you are the one until you had enough clingy shit and push her out. Funnily she will have the same words for the next guy she is staying with. This will lead to moments when the entire vent channel filled with guys that banged this chick, after the initial awkwardness the guys get over it and laugh about it. That is when the problem kinda starts.
When the actual whore gets around too much, she will run out of potential love interests. At the same time so many people will have had their dicks sucked by her, that everyone is talking about her all the time. she will drop into channels and things will get real quiet. people won't talk to her anymore, since everyone has a vid of her, nudes of her or banged her. At this point the actual whore will call everyone assholes quit the game, come back 2 weeks later and transfer to the next hardcore guild to fuck 20 raiders and repeat.
This type of hardcore raider girl is actually quite acceptable. she will put out for all your nerds in your raid. thus making your male raiders alot happier in the process. this will lead to increased play until the chick has gotten around too much and needs to find a new guild.
the sole exception of female raiders, is the best one. it is a rare gem, it is to be kept precious. it is the perfect female raider. this girl is every raiders dream. she knows her class inside and out. she plays better than every male in the raid. she knows to keep fucking mouth shut unless announcing important shit durign the raid. she is insanely funny to hang out with, she will be like a bro, you won't even see her as a potential bang victim. she is just too fucking good to be true. thus she transfers after 6 months to whatever fotm guild there is, may it be method or ensidia. this chick is rare. insanely rare. you will not hold her long, because she is just shittons better than everyone and will move on to greener pastures soon. just be happy you played with it, so if you ever have to make a list about why guilds wouldn't want girl raiders, you can say at least one wasn't shitty!
as to all the girls i raided with, they fall into the first 3 categories, well except one of course. so, most likely every female HC raider will be in one of those categories.
tl;dr: female raiders create drama, don't recuit em.
Last edited by UltimaKaiser; 2012-08-17 at 02:30 PM.
I have been playing MMOs for over 11 years now. I have played with females in raids in all of them and never had a problem with any of them. I have had more fun playing with women as well.
3 of our best healers in vanilla where women... and with 30+ geeks there was never an issue.
We have 2 females in our guild that have raided for a long time, both of them are really good players, much better players than the average male. Though there is the arguement that females cause drama, can get more "involved" with the male members of the guild, which can cause more issues further.
With that said, I was an officer and was dating one of those girls a few months back before I stopped playing.
Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-08-17 at 02:51 PM.
I7 2600k @4.5ghz : 16GB DDR3 : GTX670 : Firestudio : Naga : G27
This is why you don't let girls into serious raiding guilds:
In all seriousness though most of the healers in my current guild is female and they do fine...
In most cases it isn't a matter of turning down any females. It's that the average female player doesn't compare to the average male player. There are several females in some of the best guilds in the world that can run circles around next to every single person playing this game. However, there are many more guys who fit that description as well.
I think the ''average'' female player is usually not a hardcore raider at hearth. They rather do achievements, level toons and such. But the ones that are actually involved in Hardcore Raiding usually do better than the males because they expect that the guys will challenge/examine them so they try to out-perform the males.
Waste majority of raid guilds with long list of strange rules are wannabe hard core, beliving this will increase their performance and make them feel more pro. We had one time 5 females in our 10, no problems actually. I also know very successful heroic progress guilds with females.
Last edited by Rmn; 2012-08-17 at 04:09 PM.
Because men dont like loseing to women or they feel demasculated :P (think thats spelt right lol). Men will always wanna feel like an alpha male and women should be below them and what not.. complete bull if you ask me. if a girl wants to hardcore raid let her, 9/10 its the girls telling the boys to shape up and things (as girls are scary to ;>) we are all human and people who say no to women are just sexist.
The unskilled boyfriend... much like the unskilled girlfriend, but with bigger egos to bruise. They will whine and cry if you don't take them along with you, if you get boss kills or achievements without them, or if your progression/skill is better than theirs. You will end up raiding in a guild that wipes on normal bosses and takes 10 minutes to reform and buff and pull after every wipe, because you don't want to hurt his feelings or embarrass him. Even if they don't whine and cry out loud, they will become brooding little bitches until you start playing below your level to make them feel better. You will be stuck there unless you break up, because he's such a nice guy and all...
The douchebag. This is the guy that goes OMG ITS A GIRL when you speak up on vent. He's the guy that thinks get me a sammich/get in the kitchen jokes are funny. In positions of power, this is the guy that expects you to show up and raid but wont ever take your input seriously. He will blatantly hit on you, even to the point of getting inappropriate, but will decide you're a total bitch if you're not receptive to that kind of attention. This guy assumes you are a dude if you don't suck at the game, until you speak up on vent. These guys are EVERYWHERE. These guys aren't even necessarily good players, they just think they are strictly because they happen to be male.
None of this is gender-specific. Guys are just as guilty of being attention whores and bad players as girls. If you don't want to play with bad players, don't. If you don't like attention whores (male or female), don't give them attention and don't raid with guilds that do. Simple as that.
Last edited by Taygete; 2012-08-17 at 04:44 PM.
There are plenty of females in HC raiding guilds, maybe your just not looking at the right ones. As a female myself in a progression guild, i have noticed two big "generalizations" about some (but not all) females in WoW....who ruin it for the rest of us.
1. They play with a BF or hubby that carry them, and who for the most part leveled their toon for them
2. They are attention seeking guild **ores
I am guessing that the guild rules you posted were prob made to avoid these sterotypes
There are also a lot of males in WoW (again a generalization) who spend all day in their mothers basements playing with their lightsabers and gaming, have never even talked to a female, and who don't really know how to deal with us. The rules posted above mostly likely address that type of raider as well.
Some "guy" raiders are really girls who have "broken mics". They've had bad experiences where and as soon as they actually start talking in vent and its discovered they are female, they start getting hit on, are made to feel uncomfortable, and leave the guild.
Whoever came up with these rules prob trying to overcome all these sterotypes, and as someone has already stated its their guild and their rules.
Join guilds that you feel comfortable with and who are fair in all policies.
*My raid lead for most of DS was female, and was awesome at it.
*If a female is in a high end progression guild, they are generally better than most of the guys, because they have had to overcome all the bad sterotypes :-)
we don't not recruit females. but we are generally very cautious on doing so, we have had so many bad experiences with them, that our screening process for females is much different for male. although our core resto druid is female, and i hope i never have to replace her <3
Originally Posted by figginnoob
1/8 HC oh man that must be some serious shit there.
That guy (>'.')>
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fun fact: my buddies alt happened to be named Judis (he was a priest, which was intended as a pun, but seeing as how he also played the role of Judis the betrayer, it was all the more funny)
Thats my one and only negative encounter with a female gamer online, and even still, I had a large hand in the friction department. Granted, I wasn't a heavy raider at the time, and spent a lot of time online, so it was kinda fun and funny at the time (wouldn't dare invest that much effort these days)
The rest of the females I've gamed with have been medium skilled players at worst, which I'm thankful for.
If you love / enjoy WoW in its current state, don't bother with my signature...with all due respect, its not for you. (note: I am happy and respectful though, of your enthrallment with WoW... if not a little envious!)
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