Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Trifande]

@OP: anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

The simple truth is you quoted ONE guild that has that discriminatory rule. Links to the "LOTS" of guilds with the same rule would go a long way towards the credibility of your claim, otherwise this post just sounds like a poor attempt at trolling (or a seriously misguided attempt at starting a discussion).

Take <Paragon> for instance, the TOP EU raiding guild for all of Cata (and overall top for 2/3 tiers).
Anyone would be hard pressed to not refer to them as Hardcore or Heroic (depending on which term you referred to when you used the abbreviated 'HC' in your topic title).
One of the MAIN broadcaster and top member, Xenophonics, is a female.

My guild, whilst not Hardcore, is most definitely a HEROIC raiding guild (completed all t12 & t13 heroic content whilst it was current, and most of it 'pre-nerf').
We have had around 5 female RAIDING members over the course of Cata.

As you can see, my anecdotal evidence disproves the possibility of a generalization that either Heroic OR Hardcore guilds do not recruit females. (Of course, I'm not 100% sure whether you were generalizing that or not).

[mag07]

Ha, from a female point of view - quite a few young men and a lot of boys have serious issues being outperformed, on any level, by a girl in game. The thought irritates them more then lag spikes on a raid night. The only worse thing that could potentially happen to them, is being outperformed by their best mate's mother - banning us is a protection mechanic

In any case, would you really want to be in a guild with such approach? There are plenty of successful heroic raiding guilds full of women, and unlike the one you mentioned in the OP, they are actually mature.

[Hulari]

Is anyone else bothered by that cellphone rule too?

Not really. I was in a guild that required you to have a phone if you weren't near your PC during progression content. If you weren't you'd receive a phone call and have 15-20 minutes to be on-line and ready to step into a fight.

[Nasriel]

You know, 90% of female players in wow are just horrible raiders...There's your answer.

From experience with my Alliance guild I'd believe it... A main raider plays a resto druid and the sub until the end of Cata (Me) plays a blood DK. I don't mind the main team RDruid. She's not a HAI GUYS! *no answer* WHY ARE YOU ALL IGNORING MEEEEE (not kidding, one of the other girls in the second team actually DEMANDS they say hello to her when she logs in. I hate attention whores so I make a habit of never saying hello) said attention whore plays a RDruid also in the secondary team... but like the main team one... they are both average... and the other one is in the weekend alt run... my god is she bad -_- she's been playing her lock a couple of years now. Starting to get H DS geared... and is still pulling 8k DPS. She's so dumb she just spams shadowbolt o_O;; many attempt have been had to teach her the proper rotation... and she just spams shadowbolt. She did it in the ICC alt runs, and continues to do it all through Cata too *facedesk*

My main had another female in my previous guild who played a Shadow/Disc priest and she was atrocious. If you could stand in something and die, she'd die every time. Her DPS was always dead last barely above the tanks no matter how geared she got, and her heals also sucked. I had to mute her on vent as she made me so angry. She was asian and had this really goddamn annoying high pitched whiny voice and when she'd whine she'd screech into her mic FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFFFFFFFOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (the guilds GM's name) and everyone else on vent would say "That was painful. Don't do it again" and everytime she spoke it always sounded like she was whinging. Man she made me angry lol.

I will admit when it comes to my raiding if I have to raid as DPS. I suck ass totally and utterly. It dosn't seem to matter what class/spec I play I blow lol. But i'm a decent H pally and according to my alliance guild a good blood DK tank. As far as guild drama goes I don't cause much. I certainly never hit on any of my guildies and totally and utterly discourage them from even trying. The most drama I cause is because i'm grumpy and get pissed off when people ask stupid questions they can easily find the answer to in seconds by using google or wowhead lol

Oh and people who ask me for gold always get told "I'm a fan of DIY. Them: DIY? Me: YES. DO.IT.YOURSELF" lol

[Deleted]

You can google the story but in short if I remember correctly this hooters girl seduced / Had relations with a very very high person ranking of the guild and the guy would obviously ''Protect her'' yada yada give her free stuff

Pretty much the girl corrupted him and the sky pretty much fell from there and all hell broke loose

Shame really

And yes the girl did literally work in hooters hence well ~Giggle ~

Lol im listening at the youtube video atm, pretty sad. but yeah its ofcourse a reason to not allow females
No one wants their guild disbanned! though shame for the good raiders among them, that do joina guild to raid and not flirt.

[Resentful]

Females Entice Males About Loot Earnings. Situations about loot among different sexes pretty much always deteriorate into this after a certain amount of time (which is a horrible generalisation I know, but that's how it seems to be) unless everyone's pretty serious and level-headed about their raiding.

After the whole Deus Vox event thing as I've stated in my earlier post, I'm sure many top end guilds ''Boot'' the person asap before things spire to downfall

Well hopefully

---------- Post added 2012-08-15 at 04:10 PM ----------

Lol im listening at the youtube video atm, pretty sad. but yeah its ofcourse a reason to not allow females
No one wants their guild disbanned! though shame for the good raiders among them, that do joina guild to raid and not flirt.

Hence why the female thing :P

[TequilaFlavor]

Most actual decent HC guilds do recruit females, don't assume things just because of one guild.
Shitstorm incoming.

This. I was in several decent/good progression raid guilds/alliances that had a bunch of female players and even a female leader at times.

[Deleted]

Funny enough the world rank 37 (20 in FL) was lead by a girl on my server

[Deleted]

I agree with this whole women = drama stuff, though there are exceptions as always. I only raid 10man and I recruited 2 women aswell (including my sister : P). They behave just normal as they are "supposed" to, but I guess the good atmosphere is a result of guild meetings once a year and 3 years of raiding together plus the women being in a relationship.

However, I noticed many maaany girls, who perfectly fit into the attention whore scheme and also bitch around if another girl enters their area. Can't really speak for highend raiding guilds though, finished ds hc as late as 15% nerf.

[Adelycia]

@OP: anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

The simple truth is you quoted ONE guild that has that discriminatory rule. Links to the "LOTS" of guilds with the same rule would go a long way towards the credibility of your claim, otherwise this post just sounds like a poor attempt at trolling (or a seriously misguided attempt at starting a discussion).

Take <Paragon> for instance, the TOP EU raiding guild for all of Cata (and overall top for 2/3 tiers).
Anyone would be hard pressed to not refer to them as Hardcore or Heroic (depending on which term you referred to when you used the abbreviated 'HC' in your topic title).
One of the MAIN broadcaster and top member, Xenophonics, is a female.

My guild, whilst not Hardcore, is most definitely a HEROIC raiding guild (completed all t12 & t13 heroic content whilst it was current, and most of it 'pre-nerf').
We have had around 5 female RAIDING members over the course of Cata.

As you can see, my anecdotal evidence disproves the possibility of a generalization that either Heroic OR Hardcore guilds do not recruit females. (Of course, I'm not 100% sure whether you were generalizing that or not).

No I was not generalizing, I should have put "why do SOME HC guilds...." My bad. I have stated at least once that I don't think that ALL HC raiding guilds do this. It definitely was not meant that way. And had I wanted to compile a list it would have taken awhile to relook up those guilds because quite honestly, I have looked at so many recruitment threads I wouldn't know where to start. :P

[Deleted]

My problem with female raiders so far (i have only raided with maybe 5 women in my 6 years of wow).

- To soft to be guild leaders. My former guildmaster gave her friend 5k for flying mount. I guess i wouldn't mind if it was her money but these 5k came from the guildbank. This was during the burning crusade so 5k was quite alot of money. She treated the raiders differently, she gave loot to the people she considered "funny"...

- They seem to think they are special for some reason. They don't take responebility if they wipe the group.

- They seem to think they are always right. This is the worst point, they always think that their tact for a fight is the best and the only way to do it. They also seem to think that they deserve the loot more than anyone else.

- Causes alot of guild drama. As i said before my former GM payed her and her friends epic flyer with money from the guild bank. Obviously this caused alot of rage toward the guild master. She responded with guild kicks.

- The more stupid male GM tend to favorite the female raiders. For example no - Dkp if an female raider fucks up but if a guy were to fuck up he would lose 10 DKP. This is entierly the guild masters fault but it still pisses me of.

This is true to all 5 girls i've raided with, but then again i've only raided with 5 so i have no idea how the rest of you are.

[Deleted]

A female who acts like a raider is welcome. Most of them don't, though, I've been in a guild where a trial was getting all loot cause she shagged the GM and while they don't all go that extreme I've had several cases where I'm in a guild with some girls, we don't talk, then I get promoted to officer and they suddenly are flirty. Power issues and all that. The females who just act like part of the team are as welcome as a male, though, those are good.

[Kralljin]

One simple reason in our guild.

Some guys in our guild get horny from hearing a female voice in Vent / Ts => Drama incoming.

[shise]

They tend to be overemotional and cause unneeded drama. There's also the biological deficiency that plagues them once a month.

Wow...


In all the proper guilds I've been on my hard core times we had female raiders, in fact they were important players there.

[jtstormrage]

Heroic raiding guilds do not (or, if they do, they certainly should not) exclude women. I am fairly confident that, if this was their policy, it would be in breach of the game's rules on non-discrimination which Blizzard would take very seriously.

And it is utter nonsense that women are not good raiders. I know good female tanks, dps and healers.

[banyentertainment]

there are a few good female gamers

But generally i HATE to raid with females.

[Lord Pebbleton]

i'll admit that its a massive generalisation, but some players think that girls can cause trouble in guilds full of geeky guys who don't get none =P

Here's your answer: geeks are usually scared by girls.

[Deleted]

It's not that they raid bad, it's that they are the cause of drama 9 out of 10 times...and I've been in a lot of guild with girls, most of the time members are kicked or leaving because of a conflict with a girl.

This guild might have had problems in the past aswell with girls, if that's the case I could understand why. If you have had a bad experience with something you tend to avoid it.

Wow...


In all the proper guilds I've been on my hard core times we had female raiders, in fact they were important players there.

He never said they are bad raiders, that's what you are making out of it...he clearly said they cause unneeded drama a lot of times, wich sadly is true. Just 2 weeks ago I had to get out of a guild because the GM got emotional over every little thing and it bugged the hell out of me.

[hifi369]

Death and Taxes, one of the most iconic and and bad ass guilds in vanilla and BC, was destroyed by a female player as well. They made a huge post about it on their website called "The e-whore who broke the internet" or something similar to that.

[TaurenNinja]

Could be several things... most likely:
- to prevent drama from developing (could be several things as well... raidleader preferring the female to impress her, discussions with a potentially oversentimental component, or her becoming unreliable when she has a child (same as in most businesses, who don't like to hire women in their 30s or 40s because they aren't available as much), and lots of other possible cases based on relationships are thinkable...)
- the realization that very few female players are actually really good at this game in relation. Some of the world's top guilds have (very few) females on board, yes, but it's really a minority. When you look at high-level PvP, there are almost none as well. I have the impression that the overwhelming majority of female players tend to not take the game so seriously or hardcore or competitively as male players do. They certainly have the potential to be amazing gamers, but when they lack the drive or will, there's nothing you can do

It's quite sexist, because there can certainly be exceptions, but on the other hand if some of the above becomes true it's bad for your guild.
No easy answer to this, both sides have valid arguments.