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  1. #861
    we have 3 female raiders (2 healers, 1 dps) and they're all fine raiders.

  2. #862
    whiteknights: the thread

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by AlisonPrime View Post
    Speaking as a female Raider myself. I can attest that yes, my gender is a cause for ALOT of drama in guilds. Let me tell you a story.

    Look up Plaguechill - 25 Sinestra. I was in a guild who got realm first Sinestra, yes it was a few weeks before Firelands but still, we killed it first, and we had 3 other 25 and 2 10 man guilds on the same encounter and we beat it mere seconds before our rival guilds.

    6 weeks later, the guild died.

    Another female in my guild had been sleeping with 6 of the guild members, she asked every guild member to keep it secret, and when she slept with the 7th guild member, he kinda whispered to someone about his "conquest" to one of his friends....one of her "Mates". The two of them felt betrayed to be played by this woman and started some drama in the forums by posting "Less than flattering" photos of her and started alot of drama with her friends and their friends and 13 members of the 25 core raid team left. Then to spark even more drama, she left, taking her "Boyfriend" with her, our main tank. Rather than try to recruit, we ended up just calling it quits after Heroic Ryolith.

    This is one of the many reasons HC raiding guilds say no to my gender. Usually I do my interview with my brother doing the mumble voice over, and after I get a core raiding spot, I tell them I have a confession, and admit my gender. I tell them that while I never was the voice calling things out, I was the player behind the awesome tanking (yes, I tank).
    I was about to say "finally, a woman who read this thread, and understands the problem"

    Then I realized that even in your understanding, and acknowledgement of the problem... you are part of the problem. You aren't doing your sex any favors, by lying and manipulating your way through your issues

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 05:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    whiteknights: the thread
    Indeed, there has been a disgusting amount of white knighting in this thread. I hesitate to use that phrase, as some people might find it offensive, but there truly is just a gross proportion of irrational defense due to nothing other than the fact that women are being treated harshly

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 05:57 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ruga View Post
    we have 3 female raiders (2 healers, 1 dps) and they're all fine raiders.
    Then you also have 3 raid spots filled by someone that the other 22 (or 7 if you're a 10 man team) people can cause drama over, if and when they try to impress girls
    Last edited by Shadylol; 2012-08-21 at 09:56 AM.
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  4. #864
    The Guild master of SlashCry, a top guild was a woman. And so was the person responsable with keeping the bank organised.

    And i ve seen 1-2+ girs in almost every guild i ve been, casual or hardcore.

  5. #865
    Mechagnome Snuffleupagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djouga View Post
    whiteknights: the thread
    Don't forget the attention whores.
    I may pay my subscription every month, but I don't lose sight of the fact that the other 4/9/24/39 people I'm grouped with pay too.

  6. #866
    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlisonPrime View Post
    Another female in my guild had been sleeping with 6 of the guild members, she asked every guild member to keep it secret, and when she slept with the 7th guild member, he <snip>
    Damn. In how short a timeframe are we talking here?

  7. #867
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    Here's a perfect example of what this thread is about. Why on earth would you write a forum post with center alignment? No good can come out of that just as no good can come out of having females in HC raiding guilds.
    An act of getting attention isn't exclusive for women you know :P I don't like people who try to get attention at all cost but I see this behaviour both from men and women.

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    An act of getting attention isn't exclusive for women you know :P I don't like people who try to get attention at all cost but I see this behaviour both from men and women.
    But a guy who seeks attention isn't really problematic. Worst case scenario, he can just be removed without much drama

    A woman who seeks attention will have multiple guys now trying to impress her, which can lead to fighting among each other, and if the woman is removed, she can cause a lot more drama, and potentially break a whole raid team up if she gets a few or more good/important people to leave with her. Can a man do this, too? Sure, but it happens more often with women
    Last edited by Shadylol; 2012-08-21 at 11:03 AM.
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  9. #869
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    Man I can't believe I forgot about this but the first guild I was ever in (so really bad) fell apart because 2 bitchs decided to start a fight over a piece of look one night.

    Obviously they both had their boyfriends in the guild too so..

    What happened was girl A wanted a dagger and girl b said no so they started bitching over vent.

    This hardcore catfight went on for about 2 minutes and during that time every guy was just dead silent listening intently.

    Once the second ping went out saying both were kicked EVERY SINGLE GUY immediately queued up mic and began laughing hysterically.

    Too bad when their bitchfest was over they took their boyfriends with them and we were left 4 people down and the guild died.

    But still the silence during their fight was hysterical.

    And the way everyone started laughing at the exact same instant man that was totally worth it.

    I encourage girls joining bad guilds.

  10. #870
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    But a guy who seeks attention isn't really problematic. Worst case scenario, he can just be removed without much drama
    My experience tells me otherwise ^^ "Drama queens" both man and women are an equal problem. I've been a guild leader/officer for years in WoW and I've seen so many male drama queens that you can't even imagine.

    A woman who seeks attention will have multiple guys now trying to impress her
    Don't you think if this happens it's more of a problem of guys than girls?

    which can lead to fighting among each other, and if the woman is removed, she can cause a lot more drama, and potentially break a whole raid team up if she gets a few or more good/important people to leave with her. Can a man do this, too? Sure, but it happens more often with women
    Do you have any data that can prove that? Since my experience shown that it's exactly the same for both genders. Now neither of our experiences is representative but it shows you can't really draw a final conclusion based on them.

    The fact is there is absolutly no problem with women coexisting with men in a video game. For some reason some people try to make a problem out of it which is nothing more than hilarious. Simply stop making a thing out of someone's gender and the problem magicly disappears. People act certain ways basing on their personality - not their gender. The same things comes to age - personal maturity varies a lot in many age levels.

    Sure, there are differences between genders but judging a person basing on stereotypes is the dumbest thing one can do. People who do that are the problem and are much worse than all the drama queens in the world.
    Last edited by Lilija; 2012-08-21 at 11:14 AM.

  11. #871
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    My experience tells me otherwise ^^ "Drama queens" both man and women are an equal problem. I've been a guild leader/officer for years in WoW and I've seen so many male drama queens that you can't even imagine.


    Don't you think if this happens it's more of a problem of guys than girls?


    Do you have any data that can prove that? Since my experience shown that it's exactly the same for both genders. Now neither of our experiences is representative but it shows you can't really draw a final conclusion based on them.

    The fact is there is absolutly no problem with women coexisting with men in a video game. For some reason some people try to make a problem out of it which is nothing more than hilarious. Simply stop making a thing out of someone's gender and the problem magicly disappears. People act certain ways basing on their personality - not their gender. The same things comes to age - personal maturity varies a lot in many age levels.

    Sure, there are differences between genders but judging a person basing on stereotypes is the dumbest thing one can do. People who do that are the problem and are much worse than all the drama queens in the world.
    You're confusing friendly coexistence, with raid team cohesion

    Just because people can get along in a non problematic environment, doesn't mean they will everywhere else. A lot of the time, it's the stress and other issues brought upon by raiding that leads to people acting out of line. Then there's loot drama...
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  12. #872
    Quote Originally Posted by Azshalorah View Post
    I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....



    Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

    Thanks!


    They are "little" insecure men. Mostly likely living in their parent's basement, screaming at their moms for hotpockets.

  13. #873
    I generally say no to them because the drama they bring isn't worth it. Speaking for our guild, we have a lot of strong personalities that hold no boundaries and female players tend to get offended pretty quickly and take stuff personally that male tend to not.

  14. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puffpower View Post
    female players tend to get offended pretty quickly and take stuff personally that male tend to not.
    I have to agree on that end. Over the years I have encountered situations where you just couldn't even find a way to tell a person nicely that they were doing something wrong without causing massive girl drama. Like a friend used to say, I don't even try to teach her, we just hope that she doesn't get picked by the boss ability and everything is fine!

    However, for myself I have to say it feels like there is less and less girl-based drama the older the people you play with are. Our guild is mostly over 25 years old, people being in long-term relationships etc, things like trying to impress girls or girls trying to get attention on the interwebz are just not part of our schedule. The female players who are raiding are all performing well (and in some cases being significantly better than their partners ) and the only drama we have encountered for quite a while was actually caused by some males' hurt egos.
    Last edited by Cathaia; 2012-08-21 at 12:02 PM.

  15. #875
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    Bob the retripaladin has some time to kill, he decides to queue up for a dungeon! He has cleared Dragon Soul a few times already, so dungeons are easy, and if he's lucky enough he can get a few easy achievements too, so it's all good. About 8 minutes later he gets into a dungeon. He zones in to see his team; bear tank, priest healer, combat rogue and demo warlock. Looks good, Bob thinks to himself, and the group starts, it seems pretty standard at first. On the first boss Bob however notices something weird! The warlock does dps that just seems unreal to the poor Bob. Inspired and in awe he decides to whisper his buddy he's in a group that will have a smooth run. Unfortunately his whisper, "dude u should c this warlock his dps is inzane!!!1" is accidentally posted on party chat instead. Embarrassed, Bob the Retridin says, "mt" and the warlock says: "It's ok. And thanks btw it's she"
    Bob's eyes widen.
    So that's how it is! A WOMAN who DARES to OUTDPS HIM! What an attention whore! Bob wonders if she's playing on her boyfriends toon (inspecting her resulted in him noticing she's all decked in heroic gear) or maybe she's sleeping with the RL for her raid spot. Surely a woman could have not earned her raidspot by being a good player -- after all, Bob has met some female players and none of them were good! One healer even let him die once when he pulled mobs while she 50 yards away drinking her mana back (and that was a further proof of her EPIC badness - no healer, even gearing up one, should ever need a mb) and that is something Bob will never forget.
    So Bob speaks up. "ur such an attention whore"
    "Excuse me?" asks the warlock.
    "u herd me, u come here being all gurl and expect us guys to kiss ur feet and give our gear to u"
    "I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way", says the warlock, "besides I don't need any gear from this dungeon anyway, so no need to worry!"
    What was that tone!? Is the e-ho implying that Bob needs gear from this lowly dungeon? What a bitch! Thinks she's so much better than the others.
    So for the remaining of the dungeon Bob decides to let his opinion about GURL GAMRS to be known. They are attention whores. Bitches. Everyone of them. Only in because they want to impress smart and attractive males such as Bob himself. They want HIS loots. They want HIS achievements. They want HIS mounts. They are SO entitled and probably all their money comes from dancing in front of the AH half nekkid. Bob's attractive female banker toon also did that once, but it was FOR A JOKE even if someone traded him 10g once. Damn bitches.
    Before the last boss Bob's group decides to kick Bob. Stunned Bob stares at the screen, but then he realizes... the other people were probably girls too. What a joke! IF they weren't girls this drama could've been avoided, but NO! Well, at least Bob let them know what he thinks about girls who dare to play video games. With any luck, they realize they were in the wrong in causing all this drama and stop playing WoW.
    Bob leans back in his chair.
    His deed is done.
    He smiles to himself and queues for another dungeon. One that does not have bitches and attention whores who ruin everything.

    In all seriousness tho, I've only been in 3 guilds during my time in WoW (I only leave guilds when it can't be avoided, such as disbanding or the guild dying) and all the guilds have had females. While there were dramas caused by ladies there also have been big dramas caused by the menfolk, and from my personal experience it's very unfair to say women GUARANTEED to cause drama is just... ugh. I understand the want to eliminate unncessary drama but personalites of people matter more than whether they're male or female.

    Any guild* worth their salt does not have rules like that.


    (*well ok, I understand if someone wants to have all man/all woman/all gay/all something guild just because they want to hang out with only men/women/horses, and that's ok! But that should not stem from "all [x] are [y], no exceptions!!")

  16. #876
    Plain and simple, more times than not females end up flirting with guys in said guild, only to find out shes married and sleeping with other male guild mates, drama insues and all 7-10 players end up leaving.....all over one drama queen.

    Now before you bash my comment, it has happened more times than you would think, in the last 7 years I have seen women/girls tear guilds apart, Hard core raiders dont want drama.

    Not all women are like this, however, as I said, it does happen more than not...for those women/girls who just want to play, it sucks that someone elses behavior makes life hard for you.

  17. #877
    Herald of the Titans Lilija's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    You're confusing friendly coexistence, with raid team cohesion

    Just because people can get along in a non problematic environment, doesn't mean they will everywhere else. A lot of the time, it's the stress and other issues brought upon by raiding that leads to people acting out of line. Then there's loot drama...
    Trust me, I ment raiding environment same as any other environment. Women are by no means more inclined to cause loot drama than man. In years I haven't seen a loot drama caused by a women, while I have seen plenty caused by men.

    As for the aspect of stress during raids - there is one simple solution: under no circumstance people should discuss controvential guild topics during raids. No matter how tempting it is, everything always looks better after a good night sleep. If people can keep to that rule there is no loot drama.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 12:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffpower View Post
    female players tend to get offended pretty quickly and take stuff personally that male tend to not.
    That's a treat of immature people - not females in particular :P

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilija View Post
    Trust me, I ment raiding environment same as any other environment. Women are by no means more inclined to cause loot drama than man. In years I haven't seen a loot drama caused by a women, while I have seen plenty caused by men.

    As for the aspect of stress during raids - there is one simple solution: under no circumstance people should discuss controvential guild topics during raids. No matter how tempting it is, everything always looks better after a good night sleep. If people can keep to that rule there is no loot drama.
    You can pretend that women never cause drama in WoW if you want, but it doesn't change the facts

    Having girls around means there's a higher chance of drama
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  19. #879
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Then you also have 3 raid spots filled by someone that the other 22 (or 7 if you're a 10 man team) people can cause drama over, if and when they try to impress girls
    I don't really want to judge the kind of people you raid with based purely on what you're saying here... but seriously, I'd never let those people stay in my guild. I say this as someone who has been a GM of a virtually drama-free guild for 4 years now: If you have "girl" drama, it's your GM's fault. If you have loot drama, it's your GM's fault. Other kinds of drama? GM's fault. If you're the GM, it's your fault.

    Throwing three good raiders over the side for the sake of avoiding drama caused by some sloping-forehead mouthbreathers is every bit as stupid as losing three good raiders because of a few drama queens. If you find out that three girls in your guild are prostituting themselves over the internet to your best healer, what do you do? You kick the three girls, because that kind of person will wreck your guild long-term. And if you find out 5-6 of your guildies are slobbering and panting at the sound of a good female raider, you kick them the **** out and find some non-retards to replace them.

    The extreme amount of girl drama in guilds these days is related entirely to the fact that modern GMs have forgotten that it's their right and duty to purge the trash from their guilds. If a month goes by without me gkicking 1-2 people I think I've failed as a GM. It's inevitable in WoW that you'll end up with a core that makes up about 50% of your raid group, and you fill the rest of it with the scum that populates your server. If you remember that they're just the trash filling out your raid group, and kick them at the first sign of drama, your life will be a LOT better.

  20. #880
    Banned This name sucks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiki View Post
    I don't really want to judge the kind of people you raid with based purely on what you're saying here... but seriously, I'd never let those people stay in my guild. I say this as someone who has been a GM of a virtually drama-free guild for 4 years now: If you have "girl" drama, it's your GM's fault. If you have loot drama, it's your GM's fault. Other kinds of drama? GM's fault. If you're the GM, it's your fault.

    Throwing three good raiders over the side for the sake of avoiding drama caused by some sloping-forehead mouthbreathers is every bit as stupid as losing three good raiders because of a few drama queens. If you find out that three girls in your guild are prostituting themselves over the internet to your best healer, what do you do? You kick the three girls, because that kind of person will wreck your guild long-term. And if you find out 5-6 of your guildies are slobbering and panting at the sound of a good female raider, you kick them the **** out and find some non-retards to replace them.

    The extreme amount of girl drama in guilds these days is related entirely to the fact that modern GMs have forgotten that it's their right and duty to purge the trash from their guilds. If a month goes by without me gkicking 1-2 people I think I've failed as a GM. It's inevitable in WoW that you'll end up with a core that makes up about 50% of your raid group, and you fill the rest of it with the scum that populates your server. If you remember that they're just the trash filling out your raid group, and kick them at the first sign of drama, your life will be a LOT better.
    If only that worked at higher ranks, too bad there are no such thing as high end players anymore and its more of a competition of who sucks less rather than whos the best.
    Last edited by This name sucks; 2012-08-21 at 12:34 PM.

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