Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Acideyeliner]

I am a female, in a heroic guild that have cleared 8/8. And i have always been one of the best healers in the guild.
I've been raiding end game since TBC .. and come across some pretty stupid stuff like "oh you wont get this item becuase you are a girl, girl doesnt play for real!" but never come across being denied a guild spot because im a girl.

But most female raiders have gotten some bad reputation becuase of all the drama queens and attention whores out there. Sad but true.
In general, dont even bother with guilds that refuses people based on gender.

Exactly. I've been raiding since Kara and I've never even been treated badly just because I'm a girl. I keep quiet, for the most part, and don't talk in vent unless I have to. I've had my fair share of guys hitting on me, but, with (what seems) a 9:1 ratio it's to be expected. I've never been given anything just because I have boobs IRL. And I'm perfectly happy about that. I can stay competitive with the best players in my guild, and that's why I'm a successful raider for 5 years now. Not because I'm a girl.

I think kids have the same trouble. I met the greatest kid in Wrath, he was about 13 I think. Everyone gave him shit over his voice, but he was a damn good player and he never caused any drama or anything. He was an exception to the norm, sure, but that doesn't mean he should be outright denied any privileges.

[banyentertainment]

Heroic raiding guilds do not (or, if they do, they certainly should not) exclude women. I am fairly confident that, if this was their policy, it would be in breach of the game's rules on non-discrimination which Blizzard would take very seriously.
.

I hope not
what have we come to after all?
If it is my guild i invite whomever the fuck i want.

On topic, women tend to be more dramatic cause alot more issues, specially when there are other females around..oh boy...
My guild had more than 6...there was even crying on ventrilo ...

[Naekiwi]

Female raider here (8/8h DS), granted I'm not in one of those guilds that's purely focused on getting EVERY BOSS DEAD within 2 lockouts of a raid, but we're usually 3rd or 4th, we were the first 10m group to kill heroic Lich King on our server too.

I will say I've seen both sides of the coin from raiding since late Vanilla/early TBC, I have seen some absolute dramallama girls in guilds, the raid and guild leader of my first guild was an older lady who; Didn't like melee classes, especially didn't like rogues, and didn't like younger girls. Guess which category I was :P (all 3). I'd get assigned shitty tasks (Kite this, stay on X to help stun or slow it, etc), I'd be sat for ranged, very often I'd never get scheduled in the first place, and no I didn't have bad DPS, in fact my first raid I was second highest DPS for the entire night, after I got more raid gear I was top DPS 90% of the time, and I just did this because I didn't know any better, I didn't start trouble but I was a WoW noob that didn't realize there's better guilds out there.

After that herpderp guild I was in one that was much bigger and nicer, where I encountered another type of female raider; the anti-feminist. This was the one that was always teehee in Vent, swore that if she was playing WoW she was naked, EVERYTHING is a sexual innuendo, nudie pix 4 epix, and she insisted that her nickname would be "Cunty" (I really wish I was making that up). Later on there was another type of female raider that joined; the oblivious casual girl. These were the women that most female gamer stereotypes are built around, if there's fire I must stand in it, win inferior gear and gem it/enchant it really weirdly (+stamina on a hunter gogo!), lousy DPS/HPS, 8 million alts none of which they know how to play, etc.

But then, there's my type. I'm a gamer who plays games, and happens to be a girl. I do what I'm supposed to do to the best of my ability, I'll admit that I'm not top DPS anymore, usually 3rd or 4th, but everyone in the guild notes that I have the fastest reaction time of any of the raiders. Being a girl doesn't have an affect on how you play the game or what you can do, unless you let it. Yes, you'll join vent and you'll sometimes get those guys that are HURRDURR A GURL WUT LOL BOOBS, but that's just dumbasses that you have to accept are out there. Prove that you're better, demand at least a trial run to get into a guild and outperform everyone in the group, show them you're worthwhile, and if a guild refuses to take you because you're a girl, you're probably better off not being in that guild.

Sorry for the long rant, I thought it'd be nice to be supportive or something. :<

TL;DR - Don't be a girl gamer, be a gamer that is a girl, ignore guilds that refuse to accept you.

MOAR: I know it might sound like I'm an empowering feminazi or something but I'm normal. I joke around with the guild and they give me shit all the time too. I have a main and two alts that I play, a priest main (Shadow with heals offspec), a paladin (Prot with ret offspec), and a rogue. It's a long-running joke that girls can't tank/DPS etc, even though I tank for all the alt raids we do, and have been told (begrudgingly) by both the MT and raid leaders that I'm a better tank than the offtank. :P It's important to have a sense of humor about things, otherwise you'll end up pissed off at everyone.

Edit: Some posts made while I was typing up my rambling crap.

[Veyne]

They tend to be overemotional and cause unneeded drama. There's also the biological deficiency that plagues them once a month.

Fun and off-topic fact! Men experience something very similar once a month as well, it just doesn't present itself in a physiological manner. Some studies have shown evidence that women become more emotionally aggressive during PMS because they develop slightly larger quantities of testosterone than usual (which females do produce, but much less than men do, obviously). Men, however, often experience a monthly hormonal imbalance as well in the form of elevated estrogen production, which generally tends to cause men to show symptoms of depression. It is often associated with IMS (irritable male syndrom), however, any number of factors can cause IMS at any time.

Moving on, there's actually a rather large population of serious female raiders on my server, many guilds either ran by, read lead by, or have officers as females. Rarely ever seems to cause an issue at all in the hardcore scene. I will admit that I have witnessed females destroy a handful of the more casual guilds over the years, but chances are, if they're serious enough to be in a hardcore guild, they won't cause any stupid drama.

Note, however, that men can cause plenty of stupid drama as well.

[Sumatran]

So according to this post, out of the 9 million players, theres maybe 300 amazing females who are capable of current HM raiding, and they are all in progression guilds.

Yeah, fuck it, let em all in.

[ShimmerSwirl]

Women don't raid to raid, they raid for attention.

[mag07]

there are a few good female women

But generally i HATE to raid with females.

Are there any good male women?

[Deleted]

Like many said Guilds that raid seriously and recruit serious raiders do not dismiss recruits because of sex. (1/8 hc guilds do Not raid seriously)
I've seen different types of players in different guilds and I guess immature females are more dramatic than immature males. It depends on the guild leadeship how the drama is being handled.

[DechCJC]

I've never actually known a guild to turn down females. Our guild was semi-hardcore in wotlk/tbc - 5 day a week raiding with v strict rules, but we still had about 5 girls in our 25 man team. Nowadays we only raid 3 days a week and it's a lot more casual, but we still cleared deathwing hc with 10 or 15% nerf (can't remember) - With about a quarter of the raiders being girls. I honestly think that girls, in general, are lesser gamers; But if one actually takes the time to apply to a hardcore raiding guild then they usually are better players than even a lot of guys.

I know a lot of really good girl gamers.

Even in paragon world first kills etc, u can hear girls screaming in the background.

[Phlegethon]

They raid without healers?

Healing since 2005 as a guy

Our raidleader/priest healer is a chick. We have no problems at all. Well our MT is, but he's married to her so that's his problem ;-)

Find another guild, most don't have a "no woman" policy.

[Jektar]

Most actual decent HC guilds do recruit females, don't assume things just because of one guild.
Shitstorm incoming.

Exactly. I think that possibly this guild might've had a very bad experience with a female player in terms of probably drama. I'm not saying guys aren't capable of starting their own, though.

[Kakokun]

Not really. I was in a guild that required you to have a phone if you weren't near your PC during progression content. If you weren't you'd receive a phone call and have 15-20 minutes to be on-line and ready to step into a fight.

Seem so unnecessary though. If you're not there for progression without telling any officers beforehand then you get punished for it. And I know I don't need my guildies contacting me outside the game if I'm doing something else like they do with battlenet and steam.

[-aiko-]

I think it's been said enough now, but basically we cause drama (not deliberately, mostly). Even the "mature" hardcore guilds are usually in reality full of a bunch of immature nerds who will fight for a girl's affection. No offense.

[Knoxi]

Women tend to cause problems in guilds... of course there are obvious attention whores, but in many cases its not even their own fault.
Moreover in the end there are a lot of women that don't cause problems at all... BUT the risk alone is enough to not invite females to your raid because you dont need to.

[Tobywongg]

And this is how WoW stigmas formed.

[Kryos]

Because many males behave like primates around girls. I raided with and without females in raids and with females there was always problems. Not because the woman did anything wrong (one of the best rogues I know is female) but because the boys started to cause trouble and guild drama.

[Adelycia]

Women don't raid to raid, they raid for attention.

Wow....talk about a generalization.....Not all women raid for attention. Some women like to actually just raid. To down content with the best of them. I know that I, could care less about loot. What I like about raiding is seeing bosses go down.

[banyentertainment]

Are there any good male women?

meant gamers

[AmIthereYet]

Is anyone else bothered by that cellphone rule too?

Bothered by all of them.

[Deleted]

Exactly. I've been raiding since Kara and I've never even been treated badly just because I'm a girl. I keep quiet, for the most part, and don't talk in vent unless I have to. I've had my fair share of guys hitting on me, but, with (what seems) a 9:1 ratio it's to be expected. I've never been given anything just because I have boobs IRL. And I'm perfectly happy about that. I can stay competitive with the best players in my guild, and that's why I'm a successful raider for 5 years now. Not because I'm a girl.

I think kids have the same trouble. I met the greatest kid in Wrath, he was about 13 I think. Everyone gave him shit over his voice, but he was a damn good player and he never caused any drama or anything. He was an exception to the norm, sure, but that doesn't mean he should be outright denied any privileges.

Again, if you have had bad experience with something you tend to avoid it. You do it aswell irl.

I'm not supporting this rule of no girls or kids as I was a great raider and a teen myself when I raided in TBC...But I've always understood why most guild didn't want to reqruit based on age when I looked at others from the same age who acted like idiots all the time.

I had to convince them to accept me in the guild very often, I just said "give me a 1-2 week trial...if you still feel the same just boot me and no questions asked why".

Getting into an endgame raiding guild at the age of 14-15 when your voice is girly is hard, but not impossible if you try hard enough...I doubt if a girl would apply to the guild with great profile to would instantly deny her.