Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[loki504]

I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....



Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

Thanks!

oke they ask for immatur people yet the gm is immature as hell.

no apply if you don't have a cellphone? i mean come on. unless your going for world first. my gm will never have my phone number. skype/email is fine. but phone no.
but if you are a world first boss raider/guild you are going to raid more then 12 hours a week. 12 hours a week is like cesual guild. the guild i'm in now raids like 10 hours a week. 2x 5 hours. and no authenticator. i mean what does my gm care if i get hacket. as long as i have no acces to the gb its fine for him.
and ofc no female. that is most immature rule.

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 02:05 PM ----------

Is anyone else bothered by that cellphone rule too?

yep me. my gm will never get my cellphone. i know when to show up. and if i'm not there you can call me all they long but i won't pick up.

[Kerath]

The two lowest DPS in my guild's raids are blokes. They cannot grasp the concept of efficient movement and maintaining decent DPS. Don't even get me started on target switching.
And I have tanked on my alt with some terrible guys who couldn't find their taunt or cooldown buttons with a map and a step-by-step guide. Male healers usually perform worse than me.

Based on the logic I see in this here thread, that must mean male players on average are crap, right?
Maybe I should make a thread about it >.>

[jishdefish]

Almost my entire raid group is female. Only one of them gets me distracted sometimes though (I've taken a few dirt-naps). And really, that's my fault for getting distracted, not hers for being there. We're not HC, just relaxed and currently learning the heroic fights at our own leisurely pace.

As for your 'why,' I doubt there is a reasonable answer. Not against blatant discrimination. If it were my HC guild I would take both men and women and weed the group of any problems that crop up on a case-by-case basis. By eliminating people on the grounds of stereotypes you're only diminishing your raid group's potential.

TLDR; Their loss.

[Einsz]

I have never met any good guild declining a player because its a female. I guess you talk about 2/8 hc acting pro with 30% ds nerf

[Invictus9001]

i'll admit that its a massive generalization, but some players think that girls can cause trouble in guilds full of geeky guys who get no action =p

I knew what you meant, but fixed it for the sake of the quotation block just the same. I can't sall "all HC guilds" (or even just guilds in general) avoid or do not allow female players. Some may openly invite them, some may not. However, the overwhelming reason cited for not inviting them is the potential for "favoritism/hormone-rage" that many guys will inevitably end up showing to female players - the whole twisted fantasy of "here's your gear, now can I get your phone number?" deal.

I have no issues with allowing females into a guild, provided it doesn't turn into madness similar to the above. If that happens, everyone involved gets the boot on the skin.

[Mionelol]

Based on the logic I see in this here thread, that must mean male players on average are crap, right?
Maybe I should make a thread about it >.>

To be honest, you could. Majority of male players are crap.
I'll go even further and say that the majority of arab players are crap, the chinese ones too.

Let's get this over with, the majority of players are crap.

[Batix]

The best guild I have EVER been in was GM'd by a woman.

She was the best GM, eeeeeeeeevvvvvvererrererr.

So shut ya face! =)

[Zellviren]

That (bolded part) is a very legitimate reason to exclude females from a raiding guild. No, of course that doesn't happen all the time, or in every guild. But when you put 24 males, a good chunk of them not having any other real interaction with the opposite gender, with 1 female in the raid, it's a ticking time bomb. I'm literally stunned that you can't see how that could go wrong for the guild.

It's not legitimate. At all. Ever. Your problem is 24 immature, undeveloped children that can't accept that girls are real people, too. Blaming someone for being female (or black, or Islamic, or gay) is the worst kind of attribution you can find.

It's blatant bigotry in its ugliest form.

[Klasis]

Imagine 3 females and 22 men.

[Inspired]

This is a funny thread lols (x.... And it ain't true mate...

[Raelbo]

To be honest, you could. Majority of male players are crap. <snip>
Let's get this over with, the majority of players are crap.

I guess that depends on your definition of the term "crap".

I guess the way statistics work, with medians normally falling below the mean, you would probably be correct that the majority of players fall below the average skill level in the game.

I personally hold to the belief though that most players fall within the range of being fair at the game, with a small minority of exceptionally good and exceptionally bad players on either end of the scale.

[Lily Crowley]

And as if men/boys don't cause drama? Trust me, 90% of the drama I've seen in my guild were made by guys and the drama was not related to girls/women/females in any form. This is just silly.

Funny how so many guys scream that women cause drama, when they themselves are the ones who likely started it.

Don't want drama in your guild? Then treat your females like human beings. Don't do sexist comments (this hurts both genders tbh). If any female starts crap, treat her like any other player, booth her from the guild for being an ass, not for being a woman.

And lastly; don't recruit immature and bad players. Solved.

[Emmry]

Depending on the maturity and ages of your fellow raiders, hence your quoted guild's guidelines. Immature players may be distracted by the 'hot girl on vent and take breaks between fights to message each other hoping to get a internet girlfriend or something. I've had my fair share of creeps in past guilds try to flirt with me and add me to real-life orientated things such as Skype and Facebook and it's flat out weird to me. Granted your raiders are all mature there should be no prejudice towards female players.

I personally do not enjoy a hardcore raid environment and like to raid with my real life friends with a few I've met online, who also all happen to know each other in person sort of like 'The Guild'. It makes communication in raids during absences and loot distribution far more easier and best of all no drama!

[DanBowie]

Yea ladies usually dont game as good as men

[Toroc]

My guild is in the top 20 and we have female players. Actually on of the best guilds I have ever been in was ran by a female. Miss you Mzbehavin!

There is this stigma that females bring/create drama and sometimes thats exactly the case.

However, sometimes its really the leaders patronizing and spoiling female players in hopes that they can... well, you know. I've seen it and I've seen great guilds explode because of it.

To answer your question: Anybody who doesn't want female players in their guild has probably witnessed the above. Who is exactly to blame? Everyone that is involved, not just female players.

This is coming from a male player.

[kaelleria]

Um... Top 100 US 25 man female raider here...
7 of our core raiders are female.
6 of us are quite good (top 100 WoL rankings on most fights).

Did any of us get our raid spot because we're girls? No.

Frankly this thread is insulting. There are plenty of guys who create FAR more drama. There are plenty of guys that just plain suck. There are plenty of girls that suck too.

[The Kao]

Oh hot topic. First of all, there are females that make excellent players no doubt.

The problem is that females often tend to involve themselves on a personal stage with a community they are part of. However, raiding guilds, especially HC progress raiding guilds, are no democratic system or social welfare association; they are mostly lead like a dictatorship by one person or a council of few. They decide behind closed doors. They tell you what you have to do, they don't discuss, they don't explain. And as it happens, male players tend to take that with pragmatism - as long as the success is granted they follow without hesitation. Everything is fine.

I find that most females can't do that. They can't accept being ruled from above, they can't accept being treated "unfair", where unfair is a very subjective term, and they also can't accept that others are treated unfair. It's especially bad when they come in couples, since couples can't let go of each other, you can't take him on a raid alone without making her mad like a riled horse. This is where social insticts kick in, change is desired and drama is created. I bet those guilds who really don't take female players anymore have gone through this a few times, lost players and progress along the way.

You can call me whatever you want for saying this, it's just what I experienced so far. I don't mean this in an evil way, it's just how things are or at least seem to be from my perspective. We currently have one female in our guild who is rather calm about these things, but only after countless more left us before. Almost every time it was a big drama, including one that split the guild in two years ago. Guess what, the other half doesn't exist anymore. Figures.

[namelessone]

Imagine 3 females and 22 men.

Yep. Easy. The plant I work at right now has pretty much this dynamic. We don't get fights and drama on daily basis. We don't get it ever, in fact.

[Orodoth]

Seems rather silly doesn't it? Why are you at all surprised that top players can be female? People have it in their heads the males can only be the best or w/e same sexiest stuff we see day to day irl.

Most people who think this way about wow players are probably not sexiest at all but still have this mind set, when in reality there is just a way small population of female wow players to males that it's harder to find talent.

Just like the olympics , New Zealand (my country ) only has like 4.4 million people so we can't nearly get as many medals as the USA but per capita we are right up there.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if on average a female wow player has a high skill level than the males.

Not acting surprised at all. Simply giving supporting evidence to justify female gamers stand on equal ground with male gamers, as well as attempting to squash a stereotype is all. My wife used to play as well, she knew her rogue just as well as I did (we used to help one another out with specs and gear choices) That right there was proof enough for me that looking down on female gamers was just plain silly.

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 07:40 PM ----------

Yep. Easy. The plant I work at right now has pretty much this dynamic. We don't get fights and drama on daily basis. We don't get it ever, in fact.

Most females in a male dominated environment adapt and adjust quite well actually. Some of the most vulgar, foul mouthed, and hilarious people I've known, have been women at job sites I've worked. When a woman tells me she'll break my knee with a baseball bat if I ever try to give her a hand again with lifting 50 pounds, I find that...admirable. Especially considering she prolly weighed 125lbs

[Hakto]

Fairly sure Paragon has at least one female raider.