Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Deleted]

This is a funny thread lols (x.... And it ain't true mate...

[Raelbo]

To be honest, you could. Majority of male players are crap. <snip>
Let's get this over with, the majority of players are crap.

I guess that depends on your definition of the term "crap".

I guess the way statistics work, with medians normally falling below the mean, you would probably be correct that the majority of players fall below the average skill level in the game.

I personally hold to the belief though that most players fall within the range of being fair at the game, with a small minority of exceptionally good and exceptionally bad players on either end of the scale.

[Lily Crowley]

And as if men/boys don't cause drama? Trust me, 90% of the drama I've seen in my guild were made by guys and the drama was not related to girls/women/females in any form. This is just silly.

Funny how so many guys scream that women cause drama, when they themselves are the ones who likely started it.

Don't want drama in your guild? Then treat your females like human beings. Don't do sexist comments (this hurts both genders tbh). If any female starts crap, treat her like any other player, booth her from the guild for being an ass, not for being a woman.

And lastly; don't recruit immature and bad players. Solved.

[Emmry]

Depending on the maturity and ages of your fellow raiders, hence your quoted guild's guidelines. Immature players may be distracted by the 'hot girl on vent and take breaks between fights to message each other hoping to get a internet girlfriend or something. I've had my fair share of creeps in past guilds try to flirt with me and add me to real-life orientated things such as Skype and Facebook and it's flat out weird to me. Granted your raiders are all mature there should be no prejudice towards female players.

I personally do not enjoy a hardcore raid environment and like to raid with my real life friends with a few I've met online, who also all happen to know each other in person sort of like 'The Guild'. It makes communication in raids during absences and loot distribution far more easier and best of all no drama!

[DanBowie]

Yea ladies usually dont game as good as men

[Toroc]

My guild is in the top 20 and we have female players. Actually on of the best guilds I have ever been in was ran by a female. Miss you Mzbehavin!

There is this stigma that females bring/create drama and sometimes thats exactly the case.

However, sometimes its really the leaders patronizing and spoiling female players in hopes that they can... well, you know. I've seen it and I've seen great guilds explode because of it.

To answer your question: Anybody who doesn't want female players in their guild has probably witnessed the above. Who is exactly to blame? Everyone that is involved, not just female players.

This is coming from a male player.

[kaelleria]

Um... Top 100 US 25 man female raider here...
7 of our core raiders are female.
6 of us are quite good (top 100 WoL rankings on most fights).

Did any of us get our raid spot because we're girls? No.

Frankly this thread is insulting. There are plenty of guys who create FAR more drama. There are plenty of guys that just plain suck. There are plenty of girls that suck too.

[The Kao]

Oh hot topic. First of all, there are females that make excellent players no doubt.

The problem is that females often tend to involve themselves on a personal stage with a community they are part of. However, raiding guilds, especially HC progress raiding guilds, are no democratic system or social welfare association; they are mostly lead like a dictatorship by one person or a council of few. They decide behind closed doors. They tell you what you have to do, they don't discuss, they don't explain. And as it happens, male players tend to take that with pragmatism - as long as the success is granted they follow without hesitation. Everything is fine.

I find that most females can't do that. They can't accept being ruled from above, they can't accept being treated "unfair", where unfair is a very subjective term, and they also can't accept that others are treated unfair. It's especially bad when they come in couples, since couples can't let go of each other, you can't take him on a raid alone without making her mad like a riled horse. This is where social insticts kick in, change is desired and drama is created. I bet those guilds who really don't take female players anymore have gone through this a few times, lost players and progress along the way.

You can call me whatever you want for saying this, it's just what I experienced so far. I don't mean this in an evil way, it's just how things are or at least seem to be from my perspective. We currently have one female in our guild who is rather calm about these things, but only after countless more left us before. Almost every time it was a big drama, including one that split the guild in two years ago. Guess what, the other half doesn't exist anymore. Figures.

[namelessone]

Imagine 3 females and 22 men.

Yep. Easy. The plant I work at right now has pretty much this dynamic. We don't get fights and drama on daily basis. We don't get it ever, in fact.

[Orodoth]

Seems rather silly doesn't it? Why are you at all surprised that top players can be female? People have it in their heads the males can only be the best or w/e same sexiest stuff we see day to day irl.

Most people who think this way about wow players are probably not sexiest at all but still have this mind set, when in reality there is just a way small population of female wow players to males that it's harder to find talent.

Just like the olympics , New Zealand (my country ) only has like 4.4 million people so we can't nearly get as many medals as the USA but per capita we are right up there.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if on average a female wow player has a high skill level than the males.

Not acting surprised at all. Simply giving supporting evidence to justify female gamers stand on equal ground with male gamers, as well as attempting to squash a stereotype is all. My wife used to play as well, she knew her rogue just as well as I did (we used to help one another out with specs and gear choices) That right there was proof enough for me that looking down on female gamers was just plain silly.

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 07:40 PM ----------

Yep. Easy. The plant I work at right now has pretty much this dynamic. We don't get fights and drama on daily basis. We don't get it ever, in fact.

Most females in a male dominated environment adapt and adjust quite well actually. Some of the most vulgar, foul mouthed, and hilarious people I've known, have been women at job sites I've worked. When a woman tells me she'll break my knee with a baseball bat if I ever try to give her a hand again with lifting 50 pounds, I find that...admirable. Especially considering she prolly weighed 125lbs

[Hakto]

Fairly sure Paragon has at least one female raider.

[MisterMxyzptlk]

Ok let me brake it down, Ether they are sexist or more likely they are a bunch of guys who know they cant control their collective pants, and Women + err "amorous" male = drama often.
yea its stupid of them but i see why they would.
iv seen guilds fall apart after ages of being like top on the realm due to X broke up with Z, Z rages, guild sides with X or Z guild splits apart
I repeat is stupid to exclude based on gender. if you are really worried about that do interview to determine the maturity of players male or female before you let them in!
also please note I'm not implying in any way that all men can not control them selves or that men are the only ones who can't, I'm just saying it happens

[theredviola]

The last raiding guild I was a part of it was the gay men, not the women, that cause most of the drama... so it is just a generalization. The cell phone rule make me read that twice; but it does make sense.

[Griffter]

If "maturity" was really a concern for them, they wouldn't care one way or the other about gender. That guild sounds like they're probably terrible in every possible way, and no fun to be a part of.

[Chaochamp]

Don't know if it has been said yet (and it probably has) but:

A. Distractions
B. Drama
C. Influence

I'm not saying every girl that plays WoW is a manipulative drama queen, however I have seen multiple scenarios where a girl has been the direct source of one or more of the issues listed above.

[Deleted]

Causing lots of drama.

[Deadraline]

My guild is run by a female. She isn't in our main raid team but she is a very awesome guild leader. She is often discriminated against anytime she has to take action like kicking a player who was breaking our guild rules or perhaps giving a player a demotion because they weren't fulfilling the duties of where they were promoted to etc. She has had death threats, been called a tyrant by probably 20 people she has had to kick, all of which were good reasons to kick a player. (Stealing from guild bank, disrespecting fellow members by insulting them, etc.). I am also a female, and she made me officer a while back because I was always on, participating, helping some of the lower level guild members with group quests, always stocking the guild bank, etc. I was one of two officers on at the time on an incident and when I ended up kicking the member because he was causing MAJOR guild drama which we don't tolerate (he was angry because he didn't sign up for the guild LFR we run weekly and was upset no one wanted to run with him the next day because everyone had already gotten loot and couldn't roll for him for gear...very lame so he started insulting everyone he could). When I finally just kicked him he lashed out at me...not the male officer who he was also talking to in whispers calling me every name he could think of that was discriminatory towards females etc.

But the nice thing about my guild is none of them are major horn dogs when it comes down to there being girls in the guild. We have often had the majority of members online at one time being female and no drama has come out of it. Most of us are married and older women (21+) and aren't attention seeking or anything like that. At the moment I am the only female on our 10 man HM raiding team...and yes...I am a healer But my husband is on the team. I will say it was quite funny when I went to my first raiding "try out" back in firelands after I had taken a break from the game for a few months. I said hello in vent and everyone suddenly became quiet and one ballsy man starts saying, "Well hello there little lady" and he had this great country accent and everything to go along with it. My husband was in the vent at the time and he just starts shaking his head. And then a few others were saying hello to me, one guy commented on how adorable I sounded...then my guild leader stepped in and said I was the tanks wife lol. It was cute. But no one has ever been disrespectful to me or any other female in my guild.

Just last night we were raiding in DS and we were all having a great time. I try to keep the raid interesting during down time since there are a few of us who never take the full 10 minute break we take after 5/8. And we'll get in there and goof off on the gunship. I play a priest so a lot of times I life grip people off the edge and stuff...just for fun Guild bank pays for repairs and I have a jeeves so I don't feel too bad. At the start of raids I like to stand behind the entrance portal when we are inside and I life grip my fellow guildies through it when there are alliance out there ganking lol. It's the best to hear their reaction on vent when it's real quiet you just hear them say, "Ahhhh no waaay!" and they always laugh cause they never expect it to happen. Though the hunter always gets me back my misdirecting the first trash pull onto me.

Some people think females cause drama in game and that can be true. I raided with a 16 year old canadian girl who was always causing guild drama between 2 or 3 guys who liked her (we lost 3 of our main raiders because of her). It got to a point where our whole guild fell apart because she was always bringing in drama to the guild. Sucks but it happens to the best of us. Our new guild has been drama free and anytime we get members, male or female, who enjoy drama we just kick them. The way I see it...men are just as bad as the women who cause drama because in most cases it wasn't just the girl causing drama, but the guy as well. And for the females who are sexually harassed we do our best to help them out but it can come to a point where you can see they like/crave the attention drama and at that point they need to go. After all, anytime I have ever been sexually harassed I put the player on ignore...if they continue I just report them to a gm and it usually gets handled from there. Most time I just stop hitting the ignore button though and just ignore the words on my screen...you don't give in they get bored and move on. Words on a screen can't hurt me, but if they break the rules I am sure to report them.

[stripesrus]

Unfortunately, ALL of the women I have raided with have all been horrible or mediocre at best. One girl caused great drama which caused an officer to kick out a few decent raiders. Once the guild leader got back and heard the stories, he not only invited the kicked raiders back, but he also removed the girl and the officer from the guild.

[Goge]

There's girls that can raid just as good if not bether than most guys in competitive raiding guilds.
Then there's also girls who can play decent enough to raid at a respectable level, but are also out on attention-whoring from the male population in that guild, which causes unnecessary and unwanted drama.
Some guilds in search of raiders just don't want to end up with a girl of the second group, most likely after having a bad experience with them in the past.
So they just ban girls from their raiding team all together, and you can't really even blame them for that.

[navai]

I have been browsing the WoW forums as of late, to try and find a guild for MoP. I have stumbled into a LOT of guilds flat out saying they won't recruit any females. Here is a quote from one guild in particular....



Now everything except for the 'no females' on that list I can understand. Can someone please enlighten me on this subject?

Thanks!

Well, in my guilds roster we have...4 raiding female players at the moment. And I would consider us relatively hardcore, we clear content prior to any major nerfs in general. You will find the average 'hardcore guilds' tend to have rules like this. There are some high end hardcore guilds that do, but generally proper hardcore guilds will take a good player if you are a) mature b) wanting to be 'the best' and c) not shit at the game.

Its incorrect to say "the bulk of women are shit at WoW." since really, the same applies to men. Lets assume an 80/20% M:F Ratio using theoretical numbers of 1 million players. So 800k of those are men, and about 600k of them are wank at this game. Lets say 160k of the women are crap, sure its a larger % of the single gender, but most of those bellend players who play like shit in LFR you encounter rocking block gems as a DK - are male. They almost always will be.

I've encountered all kinds of women in my time raiding though;

The slut, the attentionwhore, the drama queen, the never says anything to hide the fact she's a girl until she admits it to you privately on vent, the general girl who just plays okay at the game, does her job but is nothing special, the good player, and the crushes the shit at men and women alike at her role style of player. There are all kinds of women who play this game, there are all kinds of men. But to answer the thread title. They don't, really in the norm, say no to females. If you want to look at proper hardcore raiding guilds over the years who are in the limelight. There has been women in Paragon, Ensidia, Method, FtH, Premonition etc etc.