Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Bigbazz]

We have 2 females in our guild that have raided for a long time, both of them are really good players, much better players than the average male. Though there is the arguement that females cause drama, can get more "involved" with the male members of the guild, which can cause more issues further.

With that said, I was an officer and was dating one of those girls a few months back before I stopped playing.

[Deleted]

However, we have female's in our roster and their some of the best people we've ever had in our guild.

You're just saying that because they're talking to you when they want some loot.

[Jinto]

This is why you don't let girls into serious raiding guilds:

http://gimpedguild.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4910

In all seriousness though most of the healers in my current guild is female and they do fine...

[katelyn]

In most cases it isn't a matter of turning down any females. It's that the average female player doesn't compare to the average male player. There are several females in some of the best guilds in the world that can run circles around next to every single person playing this game. However, there are many more guys who fit that description as well.

[Chailai]

I think the ''average'' female player is usually not a hardcore raider at hearth. They rather do achievements, level toons and such. But the ones that are actually involved in Hardcore Raiding usually do better than the males because they expect that the guys will challenge/examine them so they try to out-perform the males.

[Deleted]

Waste majority of raid guilds with long list of strange rules are wannabe hard core, beliving this will increase their performance and make them feel more pro. We had one time 5 females in our 10, no problems actually. I also know very successful heroic progress guilds with females.

[Shyzhi]

Because men dont like loseing to women or they feel demasculated :P (think thats spelt right lol). Men will always wanna feel like an alpha male and women should be below them and what not.. complete bull if you ask me. if a girl wants to hardcore raid let her, 9/10 its the girls telling the boys to shape up and things (as girls are scary to ;>) we are all human and people who say no to women are just sexist.

[Taygete]

tl;dr: female raiders create drama, don't recuit em.

Don't forget the emo boys. The ones who aren't terrible players, but who need to be told 1000x per day that they aren't bad. They will fish for compliments constantly, simultaneously pointing out their achievements and good luck with drops so they can get feedback on how awesome they are... constantly stroking their epeens in public to make up for the lack of attention and the self esteem deficit that they suffer from IRL. They will never shut up, ever. If they come on to you and you reject them, they will use it as another opportunity to fish for compliments as they hand you the poor-me-why-doesn't-anyone-love-me guilt trip.

The unskilled boyfriend... much like the unskilled girlfriend, but with bigger egos to bruise. They will whine and cry if you don't take them along with you, if you get boss kills or achievements without them, or if your progression/skill is better than theirs. You will end up raiding in a guild that wipes on normal bosses and takes 10 minutes to reform and buff and pull after every wipe, because you don't want to hurt his feelings or embarrass him. Even if they don't whine and cry out loud, they will become brooding little bitches until you start playing below your level to make them feel better. You will be stuck there unless you break up, because he's such a nice guy and all...

The douchebag. This is the guy that goes OMG ITS A GIRL when you speak up on vent. He's the guy that thinks get me a sammich/get in the kitchen jokes are funny. In positions of power, this is the guy that expects you to show up and raid but wont ever take your input seriously. He will blatantly hit on you, even to the point of getting inappropriate, but will decide you're a total bitch if you're not receptive to that kind of attention. This guy assumes you are a dude if you don't suck at the game, until you speak up on vent. These guys are EVERYWHERE. These guys aren't even necessarily good players, they just think they are strictly because they happen to be male.

None of this is gender-specific. Guys are just as guilty of being attention whores and bad players as girls. If you don't want to play with bad players, don't. If you don't like attention whores (male or female), don't give them attention and don't raid with guilds that do. Simple as that.

[Jorgia]

There are plenty of females in HC raiding guilds, maybe your just not looking at the right ones. As a female myself in a progression guild, i have noticed two big "generalizations" about some (but not all) females in WoW....who ruin it for the rest of us.

1. They play with a BF or hubby that carry them, and who for the most part leveled their toon for them
2. They are attention seeking guild **ores

I am guessing that the guild rules you posted were prob made to avoid these sterotypes

but.....

There are also a lot of males in WoW (again a generalization) who spend all day in their mothers basements playing with their lightsabers and gaming, have never even talked to a female, and who don't really know how to deal with us. The rules posted above mostly likely address that type of raider as well.

Some "guy" raiders are really girls who have "broken mics". They've had bad experiences where and as soon as they actually start talking in vent and its discovered they are female, they start getting hit on, are made to feel uncomfortable, and leave the guild.

Whoever came up with these rules prob trying to overcome all these sterotypes, and as someone has already stated its their guild and their rules.

Join guilds that you feel comfortable with and who are fair in all policies.



*My raid lead for most of DS was female, and was awesome at it.
*If a female is in a high end progression guild, they are generally better than most of the guys, because they have had to overcome all the bad sterotypes :-)

[Hekto]

we don't not recruit females. but we are generally very cautious on doing so, we have had so many bad experiences with them, that our screening process for females is much different for male. although our core resto druid is female, and i hope i never have to replace her <3

[Deepsidedj]

1/8 HC oh man that must be some serious shit there.

[Pua]

Drama... fucking drama. Women don't have to do nothing, just their mere presence created drama. Let me tell you a couple of stories about women and why guilds may decide to not recruit them. Ever.

...

tl;dr: female raiders create drama, don't recuit em.

So said the misogynistic cretin that everyone wants to avoid.

Go, you.

[Orodoth]

This is why you don't let girls into serious raiding guilds:

http://gimpedguild.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4910

In all seriousness though most of the healers in my current guild is female and they do fine...

Yeesh. I actually took the time to read it all (was kinda entertaining). Whilst I've never had that sort of encounter with females in game, back in my noob days, me, my wife, and 3 friends joined this one guild, with a female GM. She was a power tripper, big time. Found out that some folks from another guild I had become friends with (another husband & wife) used to run said guild, went on vacation for 2 weeks and gave her temp GM to keep things tidy. She enjoyed her position so much, that she refused to give it up, and kicked them (I had this verified by several people who had left when it happened) I wasn't entirely sure about her to begin with, and having learned all of that was the 2nd to last nail in the coffin. She learned that I had been running some dungeons with the former GM couple, and "forbid me from having communication with them so long as I was in her guild", which was laughable at best. My wife typed in guild chat something to the effect of "you wouldn't have a guild if you weren't a thief." Bam. Wife and I were kicked. Around 15 others were kicked for coming to our defense, go figure. I created a guild called Grand Vengeance, sucked the life out of her guild (we stayed together for about a year in the new guild, story for another day). The amount of threats and "I'm gonna report you" were hilarious, albeit I was a bit of an asshole about it due to some of the things she said, and made it a point to show up and recruit in pretty much any zone she was in. Meanwhile, one of my buddies who was kicked, had an alt at level cap (70 at the time) who she didn't know about. He joined her guild and spent the next two months befriending her and earning her trust. She eventually kicked her 2nd in command for going on a friggin Onyxia raid with us (lulz), and he was bumped up to take her place. He played the pro-active / supportive guild patriot role quite well. The death blow came at about 3am one morning, shortly after she logged out, where he proceeded to kick the remaining 60-ish members and gquit, leaving only her and the empty shell of the guild she once commanded with an unfair and biased iron fist. She disbanded her solo guild the next day, and quit WoW for quite some time (saw her again in wrath, she was quite nice to me at that point, but I digress). I had picked up pretty much 80% or so of the guild she commanded, and only did about 50% of the work to do it. People disliked her that much I guess, to the point they would support anything and everything to screw her.

fun fact: my buddies alt happened to be named Judis (he was a priest, which was intended as a pun, but seeing as how he also played the role of Judis the betrayer, it was all the more funny)

Thats my one and only negative encounter with a female gamer online, and even still, I had a large hand in the friction department. Granted, I wasn't a heavy raider at the time, and spent a lot of time online, so it was kinda fun and funny at the time (wouldn't dare invest that much effort these days)

The rest of the females I've gamed with have been medium skilled players at worst, which I'm thankful for.

[Deleted]

I can completely understand that, having seen much guild drama in my WoW years i can tell you for certain that in anything that is dominated by men, women will cause drama or problems as a result. It's not actually their fault, per se. But men will put them on a pedastal and women will use this to their advantage. We've all heard the story about the GM's gf and why her alt is more important then your main. But there is a serious side to it, because wow players seem to do just about anything to get a girl's voice on ventrilo saying 'thank you, you're the best'. In a way it's just creepy but personally, my guild decisions are never based on gender, only about the situation in particular and relevant past instances.

[Dracodraco]

Any top heroic guild (speaking of the top 100 in general here) will accept any player, as long as they are decent raider material. Gender doesn't matter.
I'd also go ahead and say that any guild that puts an age limit above 16 on their application form are just shooting themselves in the foot, assuming the person in question can attend all raids without issues (and if not, = kick). By age 16, I was already raiding at a semi-hardcore level and dipping into the WOL rankings.
The guild in question here, as pointed out, are obviously not even good .
In any case, we've had a few female raiders in our guild, although just one currently - throughout the expansion I think we've had four. Out of those, 2 of them rage quit because they could not take the jokes in the enviroment or take advice to improve. One just got pushed out of her spot by a better player, and stopped playing. Last one's still going strong, shielding us with her disc priest.
Out of one of the first two, I know for a fact that the one who rage quit over a joke went on to 2 different guilds after that - each one disbanding due to drama sparked by her within a month or two, untill she finally quit.

[Windfury]

i can tell you for certain that in anything that is dominated by men, women will cause drama or problems as a result. It's not actually their fault, per se. But men will put them on a pedastal and women will use this to their advantage.

So how about we stop blaming the women for mens screwed up behaviour then?

The problem I'm seeing over and over here is that the issue is how men relate to women, not the actual women themselves (except for the crazy misogynistic posts but they're too stupid to be considered). Honestly that's something the guy with the problem should be accountable for.

How about everyone be an adult and take some responsibility for their own behaviour for once? If your behaviour/attitude is the problem you need to fix it. Not to blame someone else and exclude them then continue on acting in the same crappy way. It's no good for you or your guild either if you deal with it that way tbh.

[Pua]

The problem I'm seeing over and over here is that the issue is how men relate to women, not the actual women themselves (except for the crazy misogynistic posts but they're too stupid to be considered). Honestly that's something the guy with the problem should be accountable for.

Well said.

[Simulacrum]

So how about we stop blaming the women for mens screwed up behaviour then?

The problem I'm seeing over and over here is that the issue is how men relate to women, not the actual women themselves (except for the crazy misogynistic posts but they're too stupid to be considered). Honestly that's something the guy with the problem should be accountable for.

How about everyone be an adult and take some responsibility for their own behaviour for once? If your behaviour/attitude is the problem you need to fix it. Not to blame someone else and exclude them then continue on acting in the same crappy way. It's no good for you or your guild either if you deal with it that way tbh.

The same of course applying to any woman who has a problem because of how they themselves relate to men!

[Fawxey]

Isn't the second in charge of 'Blood Legion' a woman? They are currently no.4 in the world.

Also 8/8 Heroic DS, we have 5 women in our 25 man.

[Windfury]

The same of course applying to any woman who has a problem because of how they themselves relate to men!

What worries me about this is that (as demonstrated in this thread) every single thing a woman does that an individual guy dislikes gets constructed as being that kind of problem. Oh she won't sleep with me, what a shitty way of relating to men, oh she's talking to some other guy in the guild not me, what a shitty way of relating to men, oh she outbid me on loot and doesn't understand that I'm more important and should just be passed to, clearly a problem with how she relates to men, and so on and so on (all charges I've heard leveled at women although dressed up more ofc). The reality is in every scenario it's the guy and their attitude/expectations that's the problem, but the woman gets blamed for not doing what the guy thinks they should be doing.

There's a huge difference between someone who genuinely has a problem relating to everyone in a particular gender (and as you point out should be accountable for that causing problems) and someone who's just pissed some individual off because the individual can't get whatever it is they want/expect out of them. But in both cases it somehow ends up being the woman in the scenarios fault, which is a problem in and of itself tbh.