Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Murdos]

I can't say I've ever been in a guild with a gender ban, in fact my current guild I'm building with friends for MOP has a female co-tank with our Warrior maintank. She's one of the best Feral Druids I've ever raided with, and very serious about her business. I remember being surprised to find out she was female the first time we spoke on vent all those years ago.

However, every guild I've ever been in has a hard and fast age rule. I agree on that whole-heartedly, there's a slew of issues that are perfectly valid from playing with kids that have nothing to do with personal maturity. From curfews, schedules of school to the potential for one of your raiders to just be literally grounded. Younger players just are a hard fit for a guild of adults wanting to make progression in their free time.

Add in the fact that a LOT of people under 18 online are vitriolic little shits, and it's a general no-no. I don't want Xbox Live getting in my WoW time, thanks.

[Shadylol]

I can't say I've ever been in a guild with a gender ban, in fact my current guild I'm building with friends for MOP has a female co-tank with our Warrior maintank. She's one of the best Feral Druids I've ever raided with, and very serious about her business. I remember being surprised to find out she was female the first time we spoke on vent all those years ago.

However, every guild I've ever been in has a hard and fast age rule. I agree on that whole-heartedly, there's a slew of issues that are perfectly valid from playing with kids that have nothing to do with personal maturity. From curfews, schedules of school to the potential for one of your raiders to just be literally grounded. Younger players just are a hard fit for a guild of adults wanting to make progression in their free time.

Add in the fact that a LOT of people under 18 online are vitriolic little shits, and it's a general no-no. I don't want Xbox Live getting in my WoW time, thanks.

I'm worried about the attitude of younger players as well, because I'm pretty sure most WoW players will be under 18, in MoP

[Murdos]

I'm worried about the attitude of younger players as well, because I'm pretty sure most WoW players will be under 18, in MoP

So you're expecting the entire current playerbase to quit then?

Because my entire guild thus far, and the entire guild I was in last time - and the guild before THAT were all over 22 minimum. Most of us over 25, and a few of us well over 30.

The problem with your style of debate and your 'fears' is you have no actual facts to base them on, you take your feelings, no data; and then blow your feelings out to false-data proportions equivalent to how you feel about them.

This is all you man. You are literally making up most of your own problems in your own head. You're convinced MOP is the 'kiddie' expansion when everyone who's played since long ago - TBC Joiner myself - have noticed a trend in the expansions, and it's a saying old as time itself.

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Everyone's screamed the sky is falling for years. Still haven't been brained by any falling angels.

[madrox]

He doesn't want to deal with the drama that women can bring because of themselves or idiot guys... how is that wrong? Chicks can fucking wreck a guild with their drama. I'm not saying guys can't cause drama but goddamn the shit women can do to a guild sure isn't something a guy can do because he doesn't have a vagina to enthrall idiots with.

I would have thought having a no idiot policy would go a long way further than a no girls policy. If you can't spot a female attention whore who will likely cause drama for the sake of drama a mile off then you have big problems, and if one does manage to sneak in then an automatic kick to her and the idiots who fell for her devious feminine wiles is a very simple and effective thing to do. I remember in my old realm there was one girl who transferred in from Kazzak and you could tell straight off the bat was a drama seeking attention whore and this girl managed to be the sole cause of three guilds breaking up and the biggest guild in the faction to lose over half it's members and almost break up before people got wise to her and she transferred to the horde; really, who is at fault there, the girl or the fools who let her in their guilds?

[Draknalor186]

sry for off topic but why do they have "Not have an authenticator " on the list? how does a authenticator help u raid better =P?

[Shadylol]

So you're expecting the entire current playerbase to quit then?

Because my entire guild thus far, and the entire guild I was in last time - and the guild before THAT were all over 22 minimum. Most of us over 25, and a few of us well over 30.

The problem with your style of debate and your 'fears' is you have no actual facts to base them on, you take your feelings, no data; and then blow your feelings out to false-data proportions equivalent to how you feel about them.

This is all you man. You are literally making up most of your own problems in your own head. You're convinced MOP is the 'kiddie' expansion when everyone who's played since long ago - TBC Joiner myself - have noticed a trend in the expansions, and it's a saying old as time itself.

The more things change, the more things stay the same. Everyone's screamed the sky is falling for years. Still haven't been brained by any falling angels.

Sorry, but TBC isn't "long ago", that was an expansion

The players I care about are players who raided pre BC (aka vanilla), such as myself

[SilentStocket]

sry for off topic but why do they have "Not have an authenticator " on the list? how does a authenticator help u raid better =P?

Account sharing becomes annoying if you have an authenticator. Without it it's so much simplier to have someone else play on said players account if he cannot make it.

[Woceip]

Interesting. Our guild has recruited at least four women since I joined in March. We do have one member who makes comments, but everyone ignores him.

sry for off topic but why do they have "Not have an authenticator " on the list? how does a authenticator help u raid better =P?

Our guild does not promote to core raider rank without an authenticator attached due to bank access. They're cheap, and smart. If you really care about your account and what you do with it, there's really no excuse not to have one.

[Shadylol]

sry for off topic but why do they have "Not have an authenticator " on the list? how does a authenticator help u raid better =P?

It reduces the chance that one will have their account compromised (which could easily cause them to miss raids)

[SilentStocket]

It reduces the chance that one will have their account compromised (which could easily cause them to miss raids)

The requirement is "Not have an authenticator" and not "Have an authenticator"

[Shadylol]

The requirement is "Not have an authenticator" and not "Have an authenticator"

"Not have an authentiactor" is a reason to "Do not bother applying if you are any of the following", it's not a requirement to not have one...

What made you think that?

[shadowmatrix]

The requirement is "Not have an authenticator" and not "Have an authenticator"

You are misreading it.
Do not bother applying if you are any of the following: 12. Not have an authenticator.

[SilentStocket]

"Not have an authentiactor" is a reason to "Do not bother applying if you are any of the following", it's not a requirement to not have one...

What made you think that?

My bad, missread. Though having an authenticator can be a hindrance for the reason I posted above

[Marverick66]

>.> some idiotic guild management there, we have a couple of women doing a perfect job at what they do.

[Trollfaced]

Girls take any kind of criticism very personal and do not respond constructive. They get mad and those kind of raiders if not an assert.

Nice generalization there, not everybody act the same you know. You got plenty to learn.

[Windfury]

He doesn't want to deal with the drama that women can bring because of themselves or idiot guys... how is that wrong? Chicks can fucking wreck a guild with their drama. I'm not saying guys can't cause drama but goddamn the shit women can do to a guild sure isn't something a guy can do because he doesn't have a vagina to enthrall idiots with.

Why shouldn't the idiot guys be kicked? I've seen guys get pissed off and hate on girls for legitimately winning loot via DKP, for knocking them back, for talking to other people, for doing every other kind of totally normal shit that people can do which apparently turns into a huge issue for some guys if a girl does it (see the rest of this thread for about a million examples). When that happens it suddenly becomes 'girl drama' despite the fact that it's actually drama started by the guys, based in their own shitty issues and expectations, and the girl has done nothing other than try to play the game. It's the guys wrecking the guild, the guys causing the drama, and the guys responsibility for it, and that should be recognised.

As to why I have a problem with the guild in question my issue isn't that they're excluding people, they have every right to do that no matter how stupid it is, my issue is that their comments have made it abundantly clear that their objections are based in their own concerns and issues, and have nothing to do with the female applicants, who despite that are still somehow being blamed for it being their fault. It isn't actually their fault, it is the guilds fault and the guilds choice and they should grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for that instead of blaming the people they're excluding (it's called vicitim blaming, it's a bad thing, look it up).

[Fountaiinn]

Let's put it this way. I've been in two TOP 5 US guilds, and by some miracle I've ended up seeing 4 of the last 5 female member's nudes. For the VERY small handful of talented female raiders who manage to keep up with the guys, it's just not worth it. (Every girl except two have been healers, which makes it even harder to calculate someone's talent) People in top guilds spend the large majority of their time in game, and relationships and drama always unfold.

You can talk about men being mature, or girls not being flirty, but it's happened every single time I can think of where the girl isn't some 70 year old overweight mom.

[Shadylol]

Why shouldn't the idiot guys be kicked? I've seen guys get pissed off and hate on girls for legitimately winning loot via DKP, for knocking them back, for talking to other people, for doing every other kind of totally normal shit that people can do which apparently turns into a huge issue for some guys if a girl does it (see the rest of this thread for about a million examples). When that happens it suddenly becomes 'girl drama' despite the fact that it's actually drama started by the guys, based in their own shitty issues and expectations, and the girl has done nothing other than try to play the game. It's the guys wrecking the guild, the guys causing the drama, and the guys responsibility for it, and that should be recognised.

As to why I have a problem with the guild in question my issue isn't that they're excluding people, they have every right to do that no matter how stupid it is, my issue is that their comments have made it abundantly clear that their objections are based in their own concerns and issues, and have nothing to do with the female applicants, who despite that are still somehow being blamed for it being their fault. It isn't actually their fault, it is the guilds fault and the guilds choice and they should grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for that instead of blaming the people they're excluding (it's called vicitim blaming, it's a bad thing, look it up).

Like it or not, victim blaming is efficient, when recruiting

[Windfury]

Let's put it this way. I've been in two TOP 5 US guilds, and by some miracle I've ended up seeing 4 of the last 5 female member's nudes. For the VERY small handful of talented female raiders who manage to keep up with the guys, it's just not worth it. (Every girl except two have been healers, which makes it even harder to calculate someone's talent) People in top guilds spend the large majority of their time in game, and relationships and drama always unfold.

You can talk about men being mature, or girls not being flirty, but it's happened every single time I can think of where the girl isn't some 70 year old overweight mom.

So was your guild leadership letting people in who shouldn't have been there, in which case it's a flaw with your leadership/recruiting, or were the dudes seriously pressuring the chicks for nudes? From my experiance I can tell you that's what happens, female players get put under a huge amonut of pressure, if they cave and say yes the pics get passed around and they're whores, if they say no they're stuck up bitches (guess which I was!) and some guys will hate them forever for knocking them back. That's why I hate these scenarios so much, chicks literally can not win no matter what way they go, and it's all always their fault, never the guys who are pressuring them or who let them in when they shouldn't have been there because they were hoping to get something or whatever. It's total BS.

If you saw 4 nudes then guess what? You were partially responsibile for creating the drama you're crying about, and you're creating the culture that's the fucking problem. Congratulations!

[MonsieuRoberts]

Females cause drama.

You can get into specifics about point of view, opinion and self-presentation, but there's no need. They cause drama.

---------- Post added 2012-08-19 at 06:25 AM ----------

That's not to say that Males don't cause drama as well...but just like anything that is male dominated, interjecting the opposite gender is just asking for dramatic incite.