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  1. #741
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    "Not have an authentiactor" is a reason to "Do not bother applying if you are any of the following", it's not a requirement to not have one...

    What made you think that?
    My bad, missread. Though having an authenticator can be a hindrance for the reason I posted above

  2. #742
    Deleted
    >.> some idiotic guild management there, we have a couple of women doing a perfect job at what they do.

  3. #743
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zuluslayer View Post
    Girls take any kind of criticism very personal and do not respond constructive. They get mad and those kind of raiders if not an assert.
    Nice generalization there, not everybody act the same you know. You got plenty to learn.

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by therayeffect View Post
    He doesn't want to deal with the drama that women can bring because of themselves or idiot guys... how is that wrong? Chicks can fucking wreck a guild with their drama. I'm not saying guys can't cause drama but goddamn the shit women can do to a guild sure isn't something a guy can do because he doesn't have a vagina to enthrall idiots with.
    Why shouldn't the idiot guys be kicked? I've seen guys get pissed off and hate on girls for legitimately winning loot via DKP, for knocking them back, for talking to other people, for doing every other kind of totally normal shit that people can do which apparently turns into a huge issue for some guys if a girl does it (see the rest of this thread for about a million examples). When that happens it suddenly becomes 'girl drama' despite the fact that it's actually drama started by the guys, based in their own shitty issues and expectations, and the girl has done nothing other than try to play the game. It's the guys wrecking the guild, the guys causing the drama, and the guys responsibility for it, and that should be recognised.

    As to why I have a problem with the guild in question my issue isn't that they're excluding people, they have every right to do that no matter how stupid it is, my issue is that their comments have made it abundantly clear that their objections are based in their own concerns and issues, and have nothing to do with the female applicants, who despite that are still somehow being blamed for it being their fault. It isn't actually their fault, it is the guilds fault and the guilds choice and they should grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for that instead of blaming the people they're excluding (it's called vicitim blaming, it's a bad thing, look it up).
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-08-19 at 10:02 AM.

  5. #745
    Let's put it this way. I've been in two TOP 5 US guilds, and by some miracle I've ended up seeing 4 of the last 5 female member's nudes. For the VERY small handful of talented female raiders who manage to keep up with the guys, it's just not worth it. (Every girl except two have been healers, which makes it even harder to calculate someone's talent) People in top guilds spend the large majority of their time in game, and relationships and drama always unfold.

    You can talk about men being mature, or girls not being flirty, but it's happened every single time I can think of where the girl isn't some 70 year old overweight mom.
    Last edited by Fountaiinn; 2012-08-19 at 10:02 AM.

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Why shouldn't the idiot guys be kicked? I've seen guys get pissed off and hate on girls for legitimately winning loot via DKP, for knocking them back, for talking to other people, for doing every other kind of totally normal shit that people can do which apparently turns into a huge issue for some guys if a girl does it (see the rest of this thread for about a million examples). When that happens it suddenly becomes 'girl drama' despite the fact that it's actually drama started by the guys, based in their own shitty issues and expectations, and the girl has done nothing other than try to play the game. It's the guys wrecking the guild, the guys causing the drama, and the guys responsibility for it, and that should be recognised.

    As to why I have a problem with the guild in question my issue isn't that they're excluding people, they have every right to do that no matter how stupid it is, my issue is that their comments have made it abundantly clear that their objections are based in their own concerns and issues, and have nothing to do with the female applicants, who despite that are still somehow being blamed for it being their fault. It isn't actually their fault, it is the guilds fault and the guilds choice and they should grow the fuck up and take some responsibility for that instead of blaming the people they're excluding (it's called vicitim blaming, it's a bad thing, look it up).
    Like it or not, victim blaming is efficient, when recruiting
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by Fountaiinn View Post
    Let's put it this way. I've been in two TOP 5 US guilds, and by some miracle I've ended up seeing 4 of the last 5 female member's nudes. For the VERY small handful of talented female raiders who manage to keep up with the guys, it's just not worth it. (Every girl except two have been healers, which makes it even harder to calculate someone's talent) People in top guilds spend the large majority of their time in game, and relationships and drama always unfold.

    You can talk about men being mature, or girls not being flirty, but it's happened every single time I can think of where the girl isn't some 70 year old overweight mom.
    So was your guild leadership letting people in who shouldn't have been there, in which case it's a flaw with your leadership/recruiting, or were the dudes seriously pressuring the chicks for nudes? From my experiance I can tell you that's what happens, female players get put under a huge amonut of pressure, if they cave and say yes the pics get passed around and they're whores, if they say no they're stuck up bitches (guess which I was!) and some guys will hate them forever for knocking them back. That's why I hate these scenarios so much, chicks literally can not win no matter what way they go, and it's all always their fault, never the guys who are pressuring them or who let them in when they shouldn't have been there because they were hoping to get something or whatever. It's total BS.

    If you saw 4 nudes then guess what? You were partially responsibile for creating the drama you're crying about, and you're creating the culture that's the fucking problem. Congratulations!

  8. #748
    Legendary! MonsieuRoberts's Avatar
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    Females cause drama.

    You can get into specifics about point of view, opinion and self-presentation, but there's no need. They cause drama.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-19 at 06:25 AM ----------

    That's not to say that Males don't cause drama as well...but just like anything that is male dominated, interjecting the opposite gender is just asking for dramatic incite.
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  9. #749
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    Like it or not, victim blaming is efficient, when recruiting
    You mean that discriminating is efficient I assume? I don't see how adding the whole extra layer of blame, drama and lies that comes with victim blaming could possibly be efficient. Care to explain? I'm not disputing the right to exclude. My problem is the victim blaming. If you want to exclude go ahead, but take the responsibility for your own actions and choices.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-08-19 at 10:26 AM.

  10. #750
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    You mean that discriminating is efficient I assume? I don't see how adding the whole extra layer of blame, drama and lies that comes with victim blaming could possibly be efficient. Care to explain? I'm not disputing the right to exclude. My problem is the victim blaming. If you want to exclude go ahead, but take the responsibility for your own actions and choices.
    The fact that the majority of women in WoW are either bad, or cause drama, makes it their fault, as a whole. The victim blaming comes in with the 10% who aren't bad or drama seekers, but trying to weed them out of the other 90% is just a waste of time
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  11. #751
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I am not sure I would label that as a "legitimate reason" so much as an easy cop-out.

    Honestly, if some of those 24 males in the group can't handle themselves properly in the presence of a female, I don't see how that justifies punishing the female. A much more fair response is to address the few males who are the problem. And let's face it, if there is one female and 24 males in a group, odds are about 96% that the problem will originate from a male.
    Fair? Perhaps. But it's a lot easier to just ditch the female. We're talking about a game here after all, if I had to choose between having a quick solution by removing the female, and addressing several males causing even more drama and possibly stretching the drama and fighting and whining for days, I'd ditch the female.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-19 at 01:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Then isn't it the guys causing the drama?

    So sick of seeing women blamed because some guys apparently can't control themselves/act reasonably.
    In a way, yes. But it's a lot easier to get rid of one female than several males.

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    The fact that the majority of women in WoW are either bad, or cause drama, makes it their fault, as a whole. The victim blaming comes in with the 10% who aren't bad or drama seekers, but trying to weed them out of the other 90% is just a waste of time
    Those are some nice stereotypes you have there. Do you have anything to back that up aside from meaningless personal annecdotes? Some research perhaps? Any useful stats?

    Of course not, because it's bs and nothing like that exists. Saying it over and over isn't going to make it true.

    The reality is that 99% of everyone, male and female is bad. Why are you making it gender specific? I assure you there's plenty of baddies out there with dicks as well, more statistically in fact. I promise you more than 90% of male apps high end guilds recieve are total rubbish and the good ones have to be weeded out as well. Which takes exactly the same amount of time (more in fact because there's more male apps generally). And we've already gone over blaming women for men making drama about them is bs, they don't have a say in it and other people chosing to act like jerks isn't their responsibility. Man up and own your own shit instead of forcing it on to other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hinaaja View Post
    In a way, yes. But it's a lot easier to get rid of one female than several males.
    Fine, but man the fuck up and say that's what you're doing instead of blaming the women who have nothing actually to do with the guilds actions or choices. They shouldn't have to take responsibility for all of the bs emotional problems of your raid team if they seriously can't handle a female in guild.
    Last edited by Windfury; 2012-08-19 at 10:38 AM.

  13. #753
    Mechagnome Yavannie's Avatar
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    This thread certainly provided an exhaustive answer to the question asked by the OP.
    When someone asks, “What is best in life?” there’s only one answer: “To crush the newbs, see them driven before me, and read their lamentations on the forums” - Lylirra

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    It's the combination of 30 year old virgins and moronic men put together with something with tits that sometimes causes problems. For the women who aren't allowed in such guilds I can only say: "Be happy about it!" Really. You won't be missing out on anything in a guild that consists of members in such a manner that a female amongst them would cause the monkeys to start masturbating dramatically.
    Best. Statement. Ever.

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Those are some nice stereotypes you have there. Do you have anything to back that up aside from meaningless personal annecdotes? Some research perhaps? Any useful stats?

    Of course not, because it's bs and nothing like that exists. Saying it over and over isn't going to make it true.

    The reality is that 99% of everyone, male and female is bad. Why are you making it gender specific? I assure you there's plenty of baddies out there with dicks as well, more statistically in fact. I promise you more than 90% of male apps high end guilds recieve are total rubbish and the good ones have to be weeded out as well. Which takes exactly the same amount of time (more in fact because there's more male apps generally). And we've already gone over blaming women for men making drama about them is bs, they don't have a say in it and other people chosing to act like jerks isn't their responsibility. Man up and own your own shit instead of forcing it on to other people.
    You're acting like the Guild from the OP is doing this out of spite, or just to be mean

    They're recruiting in an efficient manner, no more, no less
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  16. #756
    I had multiple bad experience in guilds were girls destroyed everything ... one time it was one who lived with an officer and then slept with 3-4 other guildies over the months... when that transpired, I let you imagine the chaos...

    An other time, it was an officer (female) who was like a princess and didn't support the fact that other girls could "take her place" in the guild life and became a real pain by trying to seduce guildies to join her cause... Needless to say the guild split shortly after that...

    Recently we recruited a female player who doesn't accept any critics about her gameplay and such, and act like a real princess cause she's accustomed to men offering her pets, mounts, etc... She made an officer give her the Madness HM mount without any rand and caused an uproar because of that... ever since she's in the guild, there's tensions and groups of people fighting each other to defend her or criticize her...

    Those kind of female player are a real pain, but it's not the majority. I've known plenty over the years and apart of these 3 example and maybe some other minor things I've always had a good experience with girls in game (the only thing I can honestly say is that in the vast majority, they're not as good as men in raid... there's some exception obviously I know one of those girl whose a freaking robot it's scary !) ...

    I can totally understand guilds who don't want to take a risk by letting girls in. But be careful not to generalize =)

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    The fact that the majority of women in WoW are either bad, or cause drama, makes it their fault, as a whole. The victim blaming comes in with the 10% who aren't bad or drama seekers, but trying to weed them out of the other 90% is just a waste of time
    Majority of men who play WoW are also pretty bad, statistically speaking. So?
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  18. #758
    It can be men or women that cause drama. Honestly, I've seen more guys causing dramatic issues. I'm also a male saying this.
    "A bird doesn't sing because it has an answer, it sings because it has a song. -Lou Holtz"

  19. #759
    If guild relationships cause drama, wouldn't it make more sense to put a ban on guild relationships? No bf/gf in the same guild. Which is by the way what most serious real world companies do.
    Last edited by namelessone; 2012-08-19 at 10:52 AM.
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by namelessone View Post
    Majority of men who play WoW are also pretty bad, statistically speaking. So?
    Sure, there's lots of guys who are really bad too, but they don't come with the host of other issues that women have to potential to come with
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

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