Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Scottishpaladin]

I have never played wow with a good female player. But I know there is some outt there!

[Shadylol]

It can be men or women that cause drama. Honestly, I've seen more guys causing dramatic issues. I'm also a male saying this.

But if a man causes drama, you can simple remove him from the situation and move on. Removing women can be far messier, because they can have a host of sexually frustrated young men trying to white knight for her, and potentially break up an entire raid team

---------- Post added 2012-08-19 at 06:55 AM ----------

I have never played wow with a good female player. But I know there is some outt there!

I've seen a few, but they're like 1% of the women I've met in WoW

[namelessone]

Sure, there's lots of guys who are really bad too, but they don't come with the host of other issues that women have to potential to come with

Yes they do. Guys come with just as many issues, on average. The point is if you are recruiting people for your guild PERSONALLY, it shouldn't be a problem for you. You wouldn't take just ANY guy - you first make sure he is smart, mature, emotionally stable, etc. You can do the same with a girl, if you want to. Banning all girls outright based on some anecdotes, or even worse, common perceptions, is nothing but sexism.

[Windfury]

It usually stemmed from the girl talking too much to other guys while dating another one of the guys in the guild as well and whatnot.

Because once you're dating someone they own you and you're not allowed to have a conversation without their approval ever again? Would you think it's acceptable if a girl took that line with you? Why is it her fault that her partner took that line with her? Sounds like *his* jealousy and possessiveness was the problem tbh.

You're acting like the Guild from the OP is doing this out of spite, or just to be mean

They're recruiting in an efficient manner, no more, no less

Actually it is more. In indulging in the whole victim blaming thing they're feeding the seriously fucked up expectations men have about women that you can see throughout this thread. I have no problem with efficient recruiting, I have no problem with them deciding who is in their guild or not, I have huge problems with them not being honest abut the reasons they're doing it and instead trying to blame other people for their own behaviour and choices. And I have every right to do that, because it's reinforcing all of the negtive sterotypes you see here wherein women literally can't win because they're all clearly either bitches or whores and to blame for every dumbass immature males problems. And even though you don't realise it, that hurts everyone.

[mik999]

In 5 years of gaming i met around 20 womans who clearly stated it, and only 1 was dramaqueen, around 7 were really good raiders (we have 3 in core squad atm, and believe me, they are better players, than more than half of a server). But this stereothype is so common im not suprised, but TBH its man fault. Why? Because womans who wish to do it, have a really easy time gaining advantage from some nerdy guys, like getting items, or being easy on them on raids "because im only girl".

[Shadylol]

Yes they do. Guys come with just as many issues, on average. The point is if you are recruiting people for your guild PERSONALLY, it shouldn't be a problem for you. You wouldn't take just ANY guy - you first make sure he is smart, mature, emotionally stable, etc. You can do the same with a girl, if you want to. Banning all girls outright based on some anecdotes, or even worse, common perceptions, is nothing but sexism.

It is sexism, but sexism is efficient in this sort of thing

I also don't want to raid with people from certain countries, people who are still in school, people who don't speak English, open homosexuals, and more... That doesn't mean I hate these people, or that I even avoid them outside of raiding, but when it comes to raiding, there's just certain people who I'd prefer to be with

That said, I've been in guilds with and without rules like this about not allowing women, gays, etc, and I've seen them both work fine. But I've also seen women cause disgusting amounts of drama, and it's not confusing to me at all why they get excluded as a whole because of this. Again, though, I've raided with women who were pretty good, so ultimately it's just up to the raid leader

[Shadylol]

Actually it is more. In indulging in the whole victim blaming thing they're feeding the seriously fucked up expectations men have about women that you can see throughout this thread. I have no problem with efficient recruiting, I have no problem with them deciding who is in their guild or not, I have huge problems with them not being honest abut the reasons they're doing it and instead trying to blame other people for their own behaviour and choices. And I have every right to do that, because it's reinforcing all of the negtive sterotypes you see here wherein women literally can't win because they're all clearly either bitches or whores and to blame for every dumbass immature males problems. And even though you don't realise it, that hurts everyone.

This isn't a judgement on all women, though. Just women in WoW

[SirSamVimes]

I've never met this "super flirty teehee I'm a girl give me loot" which everyone seems to be talking about. In my experience, drama is caused by guys and drama is caused by women and the only thing that you can do to make sure no drama ever happens is to to make sure your guild is entirely populated with robots. In my guild, there have been three occasions where someone caused enough drama to be asked to leave (they were all smart enough to do this before they got gkicked), and two of them were guys.

As a side note, this isn't an animal planet documentary. "Females" just makes you sound creepy.

[alexday14]

They're so hardcore, they don't want to take the woman's menstrual cycle into account. That, or it's a massive gayfest with a 'no girls allowed' sign posted to the front door.

[elapadrinar]

Do not bother applying if you are any of the following:
7. Looking to raid more than 12 hrs a week
11. not 1/8 DS HM Minimum

I'd hardly call that a HC raiding guild.

[Artravus]

only if lacking in maturity. my gm/raid lead is a lesbian, and another of our females is bisexual, and both get along great with us 'breeders'. one thing i love about my guild is no one takes themselves too seriously, we love to joke around, often cracking dirty jokes and innuendo/puns, but when it is time to down a boss, we get shit done.

By bisexual raid group.. I meant a raid group composed of both males and females... Maybe I should have said multisexual. Not sure where you got the idea that I meant anything other than multisexual though.

[This name sucks]

http://nebula.enjin.com/

Is the guild.

USA 76th, what a fucking joke if they consider themselves hardcore.

Now what I even look at that guild I was in aptitude, the same server but infinitely better and we would always laugh at those idiots when we killed sinestra before they were even done V/T

[Windfury]

This isn't a judgement on all women, though. Just women in WoW

Because ingrained negative sterotypes about women aren't being carried over into other parts of society by the people who hold them? There is no sexism in the world outside of wow? Get real.

[Deleted]

I don't think it has anything to do with how well they are doing in dungeon/raids etc etc.. it is more about simply being different. We all know that girls and men aren't always on the same page, our thinking is a bit different, so it is probably just the GM wanting to have all boys... has nothing to do with females in general. I mean.. imagine only guys in a room playing games... now imagine only girls in the room playing games... now imagine both in the room.. playing games. It is as simple as that, they don't want to add extra tentions/drama etc that could "potentionally" happen.
About the.. guys vs girls in a room thing. Imagine if there are all guys, they probably feel comfortable burping, farting, talking shish, talking even about girls(right?), talking smack even about girls, just being boys amongst boys, and if a girl comes into that equastion, then all that changes, they simply don't want that to happen.

[Shadylol]

Because ingrained negative sterotypes about women aren't being carried over into other parts of society by the people who hold them? There is no sexism in the world outside of wow? Get real.

Lol, this thread is about a guild's excluding women, not real world sexism

[Gandrake]

You know what's ironic?

I've been in a few guilds now, and I was kicked from 2 from the very same reason: Getting into a simple argument with a ranked female who only got rank because they were being overly flirty to all of the guys. My side of the arguments were mature, legit concerns. Both times were from me merely pointing out performance issues, why we were being held back, ways to improve, etc. I want to raid. I want to progress. God forbid that I look for a solution so that we can move forward. The female officers were too carebear about criticism and replied with "CAN'T WE JUST GET ALONG???" Dear, it's not about getting along. I don't hate anyone in the raid group. It's about progressing. The funny thing is, after I was kicked, one of the guys THAT I CRITICIZED and was "mean to" who was horrible in raids stood up for me and got kicked for "associating with that bitch". We're good friends now, and he's completed 8/8H on his main. Yeah, man, I was totally wrong for criticizing him and pointing him in the right direction!

So yeah. I can see why guilds want to shut out girls completely. I wouldn't mind joining one of those guilds, actually, because I have had an overall horrible experience with females in WoW. However, I have this little problem of mine...

I'm female.

FML

Well, there's a difference between pursuing your own goals and seeing to it that your goals and the guild's goals coincide. I am not saying that you are wrong, or that you are typical girl drama-inducing material, because that is a can of worms that I do not want to even open. I can see where you are coming from, but can you see where your guild(s) is/are coming from?

If I called all of the raiders in our roster bad because they weren't as good as I wanted them to be, it would be a very tense and uncomfortable environment. I would spend most of my time finding replacements for them, because unfortunately, if your experience may permit, you might just realize telling people that they're dumber than a box of rocks doesn't actually make them any smarter.

The guild I run with is very laid back. High performance is not mandatory, all they really ask is that you perform decently (like 30k+) and show up for raid nights with consistent attendance. Can't say I've ever seen a dramatic event in the year that I have been with them, besides our Druid wanting to burst into tears over people being retarded with dispels on Zon'ozz, not that I don't sympathize with him and many others who were expressing the same discontent, but in a more subtle and controlled manner.

I have often felt like taking control of recruitment and making a more serious raid, but I can tell how uncomfortable other players of the raid would feel in that environment.

My bro raids with a Legendary Mage with 15k nerd points, cleared all heroic content this expansion, does 30k DPS. The guys DPS is bad as fuck, he is in full best in slot, drives me nuts. But he listens, at least knows how to not die in a retarded way and doesn't start shit. The only time he's ever been hit by Shockwave because he knew he couldn't get out of it, the guy blocked.

The guy shows up and listens, and that's really all most guilds want. I mean, sounds like he's about to get replaced, but look at how far he got, just by being a silent ginger bastard with impeccable attendance.

http://nebula.enjin.com/

Is the guild.

USA 76th, what a fucking joke if they consider themselves hardcore.

Now what I even look at that guild I was in aptitude, the same server but infinitely better and we would always laugh at those idiots when we killed sinestra before they were even done V/T

A lot of bad guilds look good right now, because Dragon Soul was so bad.

[Deleted]

- All of are members are former graduates or are former military.
- Our youngest member is 24 yrs old
- Most of us are Engaged or already married
- We all have careers

I don't get it.

With a demographic of 24yo+ people with careers and stable relationships, you should already be immune to female drama - it takes two sides to make it.

I know how much work it is to run a guild, so I would understand your reasoning if your membership included 18yo social awkward nerds.

[This name sucks]

A lot of bad guilds look good right now, because Dragon Soul was so bad.

It makes me sad thats the definition of hardcore has dropped so much. That US 76th people are calling themselves hardcore.

[reef]

i play in a top 100 us guild and there are 3 women in our core roster who all play extremely well. there is nothing wrong with women raiders and people who think such things should get a reality check.

[Windfury]

Lol, this thread is about a guild's excluding women, not real world sexism

/facepalm

The people you're talking about are real people, just because you're interacting with them online doesn't make them less real. The ideas and sterotypes and negativity are also coming from real people, and they don't just forget about it when they turn the game off, it's part of their belief system about the world. It absolutely impacts on things outside of wow.