stand your ground law, people will abuse it

[superstarz]

ok so all of you should of heard by now about the 15year old boy who stabbed the 16 year old bully n got away with it because of the 'stand your ground law'

[url]http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/...nd-defense-ca/




does that mean if lets say i was walking to the shops one day and a bully came over n pushed me for no reason im allowed to get a knife and stab him to death?

its like that other story(sorry dont have a link)
the story about the wife that was being abused by her husband over the years and then one day she shot him with a shotgun in his sleep after she drugged his food.
she got away with it. she could of just left him and went into hiding. or even went to the police
instead she chose to put sleeping tablets in his food wait for him to sleep then shoot him with a shotgun.
sounds premeditated to me.

thats just like saying if somebody hurts me one time im allowed to kill them.
is that how the law works?
can somebody explain to me how this is acceptable.

[Simulacrum]

I'm gonna google that stuff of yours to be able to comment, I guess, but I figured I should still let you know that your link doesn't work.

[ati87]

Or how about the guy walking to another guy while with a gun while screaming random crap like ''don't threaten me'', just because he was screaming something to happen doesn't actually make it true.

[superstarz]

Or how about the guy walking to another guy while with a gun while screaming random crap like ''don't threaten me'', just because he was screaming something to happen doesn't actually make it true.

theres also another story here in australia happend about a year ago.
a security guard was bashed and as the perpetrators were running away she took out her gun and fired at them killing one of them.
she didnt get charged becuase it was classed as "self defence"
but how is that self defence when she was not getting attacked anymore the men were running away.
im not defending the fact they bashed her.
im just saying that doesnt give her the right to kill them.

its just like saying if you touch me im allowed to kill you.
so dont ever lay your hand on anybody

[Dendrek]

superstarz, you use the statement "it's just like saying..." to give an example of something that's not even remotely similar in order to make your point. You're giving grossly inaccurate analogies to justify your position.

---------- Post added 2012-08-15 at 01:32 AM ----------

Also, I'm hoping you can find a working link, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

[hrafnkel]

It's not like there's places where stand your ground laws have existed for many, many years without excessive abuse, right? The occasional incident isn't really worth getting too worried about. Any law can be abused in some way or another.

[Jersovic]

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/...artner=popular



does that mean if lets say i was walking to the shops one day and a bully came over n pushed me for no reason im allowed to get a knife and stab him to death?

.

Yes, it does.

If I'm getting beaten up by someone I can't physically defend myself from, you're god damn right I'm going to grab a steak knife off of a table and try to throw it through his jugular. And I'm not going to feel bad either. When those kids shot up Columbine and they interviewed students afterwards, every single student said that those perpetrators were heavily bullied for years, having feces thrown at them and everything. Am I supposed to feel sorry that some piece of shit bully who is on par with a Nazi got shot as a result of his horrific actions? laugh. out. loud.

[Deleted]

Also, I'm hoping you can find a working link, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

I managed to find the story by googling "http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/...artner=popular"

Here: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/...nd-defense-ca/


Edit: After reading the story, it's perfectly fair ruling. The bully found out the hard way that sometimes the bullied strikes back.

[Wikiy]

While i understand why the 15 year old did it (i've genuinely wanted to kill the guys who bullied me on numerous occasion, it wasn't just harmless harassing, it was serious) i do agree it's not something people should be able to get away with it.

[Dendrek]

The kid followed him with the obvious and demonstrated intent to cause great bodily harm. He defended himself with deadly force. I'm not sure how I feel about it being "justified deadly force," but I am certain that this ruling won't lead to "if someone yells at me I can shoot them" as the OP seems to suggest.

[Simulacrum]

Edit: After reading the story, it's perfectly fair ruling. The bully found out the hard way that sometimes the bullied strikes back.

Even though I don't at all agree with the sentiments of Jersovic above, I agree that the ruling seems perfeclty fair as it's presented in the article.

[Total Crica]

The kid followed him with the obvious and demonstrated intent to cause great bodily harm. He defended himself with deadly force. I'm not sure how I feel about it being "justified deadly force," but I am certain that this ruling won't lead to "if someone yells at me I can shoot them" as the OP seems to suggest.

i dont know - if i am getting my ass handed to me when i did nothing at all to provoke or start it, well, i am going to try to defend myself anyway i can - if they get dead in the process o well - the message we should give others is : you could die from starting a fight with someone, you have been warned!

we dont blame the animals for killing people who physically harm them for no reason, so why are we blaming the humans for killing people who physically harm them for no reason?

[Dendrek]

i dont know - if i am getting my ass handed to me when i did nothing at all to provoke or start it, well, i am going to try to defend myself anyway i can - if they get dead in the process o well - the message we should give others is : you could die from starting a fight with someone, you have been warned!

we dont blame the animals for killing people who physically harm them for no reason, so why are we blaming the humans for killing people who physically harm them for no reason?

Would you claim stabbing someone 12 times is appropriate force?

There are a lot of different ways to handle that situation that don't have to be deadly. Simply cutting him would have probably stopped the attack. Stabbing him once certainly would have been enough. This kid stabbed him 12 times.

Since he is a kid, and is likely not mature/rational enough to understand the consequences of his actions or to figure out the best way to handle that situation, it makes sense to me -- and therefore seems somewhat reasonable -- that he handled this situation so poorly. But he wasn't justified. He's not a hero here. He's not a criminal either, in my mind. He's just an abused kid who reacted badly.

However, that same defense DOES NOT apply to an adult. There are a lot of sane, non-deadly ways to handle an attacker. Unless you believe that the attacker means to beat you to death (and it could be that you know he will do it, or that you simply don't know how bad he plans to hit you), using deadly force, in my mind, is not justified. For example, you could warn him, "I have a knife!" That's probably more than enough to get him to back away.

[Simulacrum]

However, that same defense DOES NOT apply to an adult. There are a lot of sane, non-deadly ways to handle an attacker. Unless you believe that the attacker means to beat you to death (and it could be that you know he will do it, or that you simply don't know how bad he plans to hit you), using deadly force, in my mind, is not justified. For example, you could warn him, "I have a knife!" That's probably more than enough to get him to back away.

What if he doesn't stop if you warn him? I had a lawyer tell me the exact term for this one, but I forget what it was, but the way I understood it you're allowed to use weapons to defend yourself if your attacker is so much stronger than you that you wouldn't stand a chance without one; and sometimes those weapons are just kind of almost unavoidably deadly.

I don't wanna sound like I'm defending the idea that we should be allowed to stab to death anyone who attacks us, but I can imagine situations where it seems like a reasonable response, at least at the time, in the heat of the moment as your body is in full fight-or-flight-mode, especially as an individual who is untrained and unused to combat and so is likely responding completely intuitively to a situation they were not properly prepared for. I could probably see myself doing something like that if the situation was right enough - or, as it were, wrong enough.

I still think I should go to prison for that, though.

[Total Crica]

Would you claim stabbing someone 12 times is appropriate force?

depends on how scared i was they were going to come back and finish the job later that they started on me...if they started in on me for NO REASON at all, then they might come back LATER and finish it..

[Dendrek]

What if he doesn't stop if you warn him? I had a lawyer tell me the exact term for this one, but I forget what it was, but the way I understood it you're allowed to use weapons to defend yourself if your attacker is so much stronger than you that you wouldn't stand a chance without one; and sometimes those weapons are just kind of almost unavoidably deadly.

I don't wanna sound like I'm defending the idea that we should be allowed to stab to death anyone who attacks us, but I can imagine situations where it seems like a reasonable response, at least at the time, in the heat of the moment as your body is in full fight-or-flight-mode, especially as an individual who is untrained and unused to combat and so is likely responding completely intuitively to a situation they were not properly prepared for. I could probably see myself doing something like that if the situation was right enough - or, as it were, wrong enough.

I still think I should go to prison for that, though.

I wasn't claiming that a weapon should never be used to defend oneself. I'm saying wielding a weapon with deadly intent (going for the kill rather than to immobilize or even warn) when there are other options available is not justified. Of course, that depends on how feasible and obvious those other options are.

---------- Post added 2012-08-15 at 02:27 AM ----------

depends on how scared i was they were going to come back and finish the job later that they started on me...if they started in on me for NO REASON at all, then they might come back LATER and finish it..

And you'd probably go to jail for that. It's not ok just because you think it's ok.

[Total Crica]

And you'd probably go to jail for that. It's not ok just because you think it's ok.

not in texas i wont and that's where i live - everyone here KNOWS they could die if they start a fight...everyone here KNOWS it's THEIR fault if they die from starting a fight...

[damntree]

I'm ok with people who start fights getting stabbed to death by their victims.

[Kalyyn]

It sounds to me like a lot of you think that combat is like a turn-based RPG. Anyone who's ever actually been in a serious fight knows that everything happens really fast, you can't always control where or how many times you hit somebody, and sometimes people can get killed accidentally.

If you don't want to be killed, then don't fuck with people. It's a simple fucking rule. Stop trying to make up dumb shit like "He should have entered VATS and only shot at hand and shins because it would just incapacitate the bad guy!"

As for shooting somebody who's running away, well tough shit to them. They shouldn't have started it to begin with, and you can't be sure that they won't be back. Better to kill them then and there while you have the upper hand.

[superstarz]

I'm ok with people who start fights getting stabbed to death by their victims.

ok lets just say you are walking along the road with your elderly mother and a bicycle rider rides past and accidently knocks your mother over. you wlak up to him and push him off his bike in anger.

Is he allowed to stab you repeatedly? since you are starting a fight with him and he is defending himself.
can somebody give me a serious answer to that please