All out Melee in Mop - Warrior, Paladin, Death Knight

[wynterlyn]

So I was wondering which class looks all round capable and fun going into MoP - Death Knights, Paladins or Warriors?

I am only looking for an overall view regarding these classes from a PVP standpoint of view, as well as some PVE, questing and survivability.

I don't really have access to a BETA or a the PTR. So any information would be helpful. Thank you.

[Deleted]

All of them do.

[Korgoth]

Currently on Beta Warrior > DK > Ret, but when Dragon Roar gets nerfed, and oh how its going to be nerfed, DK > Ret > War is the probable outcome.

[Redlikemyrage]

Currently on Beta Warrior > DK > Ret, but when Dragon Roar gets nerfed, and oh how its going to be nerfed, DK > Ret > War is the probable outcome.

So in other words warriors are only good currently cause of Dragon's Roar?

[Asmodejjj]

So in other words warriors are only good currently cause of Dragon's Roar?

And Execute! Dem 500k crits are worth looking into.

[cFortyfive]

I frankly doubt that anyone has a clear answer to that yet.

[Omertocracy]

So I was wondering which class looks all round capable and fun going into MoP - Death Knights, Paladins or Warriors?

which class looks all round capable and fun

fun

The class that is the most fun is the one you have the most fun playing?

Anyway that's been my experience.

[Korgoth]

So in other words warriors are only good currently cause of Dragon's Roar?

Pretty much. Dragons Roar with CDs is 30-40% of someone's health, Execute is good for the bottom 20%. Outside of those 2 abilities warrior damage is nothing special, and utility/CC is just gag order and an aoe fear since MS has no appreciable effect with how retardedly high healing is. PvP works out into a lot of waiting around for Dragon's Roar to come off CD. Kind of like Wrath with Bladestorm, but it feels so much worse.

[Hand Banana]

Pretty much. Dragons Roar with CDs is 30-40% of someone's health, Execute is good for the bottom 20%. Outside of those 2 abilities warrior damage is nothing special, and utility/CC is just gag order and an aoe fear since MS has no appreciable effect with how retardedly high healing is. PvP works out into a lot of waiting around for Dragon's Roar to come off CD. Kind of like Wrath with Bladestorm, but it feels so much worse.

Not seeing how our utility is bad if we dont take dragons roar. I would be taking shockwave instead (which hasnt been nerfed yet to my knowledge) which gives us more lockdown than a rogue. Plus all the nuts mobility we are getting in 30 sec HL +4set and 12 sec charge and avatar. Warriors sounds like shittons of fun in pvp right now but I dont have beta so ill have to take ur word that our dmg is low. Then again we scale really well with gear so maybe it'll be better when s12 starts.

[Phinkydo]

Pretty much. Dragons Roar with CDs is 30-40% of someone's health, Execute is good for the bottom 20%. Outside of those 2 abilities warrior damage is nothing special, and utility/CC is just gag order and an aoe fear since MS has no appreciable effect with how retardedly high healing is. PvP works out into a lot of waiting around for Dragon's Roar to come off CD. Kind of like Wrath with Bladestorm, but it feels so much worse.

Have people not been playing around with the new heroicstrike taste for blood system? i mean 250k+ crits at lvl 85 on (target dummy) ontop of dragons roar and exexcute instant slam still hitting as hard as dragons roar when it crits with no stacking of ltts i dont see how warriors damage is lackluster

[Korgoth]

Not seeing how our utility is bad if we dont take dragons roar. I would be taking shockwave instead (which hasnt been nerfed yet to my knowledge) which gives us more lockdown than a rogue. Plus all the nuts mobility we are getting in 30 sec HL +4set and 12 sec charge and avatar. Warriors sounds like shittons of fun in pvp right now but I dont have beta so ill have to take ur word that our dmg is low. Then again we scale really well with gear so maybe it'll be better when s12 starts.

Healing is insane on beta, kills only take place during high CC, super burst, or smoke bomb. Dragon Roar gives us the middle option, Shockwave gives CC yes, but its highly ineffective, you are basically trading stunning the target and doing 40% of its health for stunning the target. Shockwave is more often, but without CDs lined up you won't get a kill.

I don't like DragonRoar and I want it and things like it nerfed because it's just stupid to have a guaranteed super damage CD. But it's also stupid that a quick heal does 70%+ of a target health or absorbs that take attack after attack after attack to get through. Or that after Dispel was nerfed CC wasnt nerfed. Healing and other classes burst and CC would need to be nerfed as well to create actually fun pvp with a good pacing to it, but as we saw from Cataclysm it won't happen.

If things stay as they are, Warriors will be the best melee, but looking at the history of the last 2 years, I can't see how GC will let warriors keep Dragonroar as is, and without it were mediocre.


And as for TFB stacking, it's like winning the lottery. Getting to 5 stacks in pvp is like getting a stormherald stun, then 4 mace stuns, then another stormherald proc in a row in TBC. The proc rate is complete shit. Maybe 1/500 kills you might get a good burst off with stacked TFB.

Also remember they just completely rebuilt our rage system to stop us from scaling well. So the idea that our main abilities will scale into being able to do enough burst on their own is highly unlikely.

[nehiod]

As if arms didn't have enough rng with sudden death, now we have to deal with TfB stacks. I personally hate the mechanic and would love to see TfB proc raised to 100% and each stack adding like 50% bonus dmg to HS instead. This is from a pve perspective btw.

[phoenix01]

From what ive seen in Beta and the class notes there may be a close variable between Ret Pal and Unh/Frost DK's.... As for Warrior i fear they are going to be lacking until first patch into MoP...

[Asmodejjj]

As if arms didn't have enough rng with sudden death, now we have to deal with TfB stacks. I personally hate the mechanic and would love to see TfB proc raised to 100% and each stack adding like 50% bonus dmg to HS instead. This is from a pve perspective btw.

So you hate the mechanic but really you don't, you'd want us to have Overpower proc Overpower infinitely, and keep TfB the same as it is? Very intelligent post, thank you for another worthy contribution. Now go back to whatever mindless class you usually play.

[nehiod]

/sigh

Obviously I wasn't talking about changing free overpower proc chance, that is fine at 30%, but the tfb stacks should be more reliable. My suggestion was simply making every OP give a tfb stack and reduce HS dmg bonus to compensate. Why so hostile?

[Krumb]

So you hate the mechanic but really you don't, you'd want us to have Overpower proc Overpower infinitely, and keep TfB the same as it is? Very intelligent post, thank you for another worthy contribution. Now go back to whatever mindless class you usually play.

I really don't think highly of your contribution as well. You did not give any feedback or any suggestions to improve the warrior class.

Ghost already stated that because someone below 20% is usually already dead, that this justifies executes lethality. They've also rolled out nerfs to executes AP scaling by about 25% anyways so it is no where near "500k crits".

Now on topic to nehiod's post. I had a similar proposition to that. Remove the chance on overpower to proc another overpower, but each time you use overpower grants a 100% chance to add 1 stack of taste for blood that increases the damage of your next heroic strike by 50%, down from 100% per stack. Stacks up to 5 times for a potential of up to 250% above heroic strike's normal damage.

Anyway, I don't know, its beyond me that the developers of the warrior class can't come up with something better than what they have implemented. Chance on hit rng is just bad game design in my eyes and it seems very unpopular among the player base among the other classes.

[Flaks]

Pretty much. Dragons Roar with CDs is 30-40% of someone's health, Execute is good for the bottom 20%. Outside of those 2 abilities warrior damage is nothing special, and utility/CC is just gag order and an aoe fear since MS has no appreciable effect with how retardedly high healing is. PvP works out into a lot of waiting around for Dragon's Roar to come off CD. Kind of like Wrath with Bladestorm, but it feels so much worse.

110k out of 390k =! 30-40% of someone's hp. It's about 27% which really isn't OP AT ALL considering it's one minute cd. Now if you're going to argue that spamming attacks for 200k within 5 seconds due to CD stacking (I remember having this argument with you before) then that's a good point. As it is right now there's no reason whatsoever for dragon roar to get nerfed. There IS a reason for CD stacking to get nerfed (if dragon roar gets nerfed and cd stacking doesn't then we'll continue burning targets for 70% of their hp in seconds consistently for 20 seconds every 3 minutes). Nevermind that mages and bm hunters are doing that much damage every 20-30 seconds.