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  1. #101
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    I'm guessing we'll be seeing level 80 elite area's with harder objects and cooler rewards

    Tomoko Eternal Life, Kilik Eternal Sun, Eira Frozen Hearted, Ashara Emberlight,
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  2. #102
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Of course you have a goal, your goal is to defeat the Elder Dragons. Only, at level 1 you can't realistically call that a goal, it is more like a dream. You start as a local hero, helping out around your home city, sorting out issues with your own people, then you wander farther into new lands, you discover new people, you fight new foes, you learn more about the Elder Dragons but they're still completely out of your reach. During each step of your journey, the Dragons are your motivation, your drive, but they're not always part of your everyday life. Well Guild Wars 2 is about that everyday life, the unexpectedness of it, the characters living around you, the issues, the friendships and all the different situations you find yourself into. Levels in GW2 are insignificant, they're a pacing device intended to gate players through different areas. As such, you really have to abandon the idea that anything before level 80 is only there to lead you to that situation, that is absolutely wrong in GW2, a game where you can get all the way from level 1 to level 80 without making a single step outside of your capital city of choice.

    All in all, yes there are goals in GW2, but unlike other MMOs, you don't need to be max level to start working towards these goals. You will level WHILE working towards your goals, without actively thinking about it. You're a PvE/Lore guy? Your goal is to advance your personal story, go to Orr, fight Zhaitan, complete all the explorable modes of every dungeon, leveling is a side-effect to doing these activities. You're a PvP guy ? Your goal is to achieve top ranks and be ahead of the meta-game, leveling is irrelevant. You're a WvW guy ? Your goal is to lead battles, take keeps, cut-off enemy supply, and you'll level while you do it. You're a crafter ? Your goal is to max out all professions, discover all the recipes, control the trading post and make exotic armor, leveling is again something that happens naturally.
    Mmm, good post.

    Saving this for later quotage.

  3. #103
    How do MMO players even enjoy single player video games any more?

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't follow some weird arcane formula for its game progression. You level up to go further in the game. You level up to equip better gear. You level up to unlock character customization options.

    A goal they give you at the very beginning of the game is through the personal story, which acts as a form of campaign for the player to progress through and complete.

    I mean, I wouldn't call Baldur's Gate a bad game because there weren't end game raids or gear progression I needed to complete to beat the game. Final Fantasy 7 would not be called a bad game because there was no raiding or gear progression to beat the game.

    The goal of the game is to play the game and enjoy the content, and to see the end of the story that they've provided. Increasing gear progression, random loot drops, and raids you can only complete once a week are the typical standard of subscription-based MMOs that are used to keep you subscribed for another month. Guild Wars 2 doesn't work like that and thus doesn't need those systems.

  4. #104
    Ribbon Guru Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    How do MMO players even enjoy single player video games any more?

    Guild Wars 2 doesn't follow some weird arcane formula for its game progression. You level up to go further in the game. You level up to equip better gear. You level up to unlock character customization options.

    A goal they give you at the very beginning of the game is through the personal story, which acts as a form of campaign for the player to progress through and complete.

    I mean, I wouldn't call Baldur's Gate a bad game because there weren't end game raids or gear progression I needed to complete to beat the game. Final Fantasy 7 would not be called a bad game because there was no raiding or gear progression to beat the game.

    The goal of the game is to play the game and enjoy the content, and to see the end of the story that they've provided. Increasing gear progression, random loot drops, and raids you can only complete once a week are the typical standard of subscription-based MMOs that are used to keep you subscribed for another month. Guild Wars 2 doesn't work like that and thus doesn't need those systems.
    Exactly.

    Guild Wars 2 reminds me a lot of a traditional RPG experience in an MMO shell because the game isn't entirely about obtaining X, it's about the journey itself and going through the campaign. Some people try to play WoW like that, but it just doesn't work. The end is shorter than you would want because the content outlevels you. With player levels balanced in GW2, it functions more like a single-player RPG than a traditional "get levels, get gear, get power, slay dragons" MMO.

    Honestly, if you want another WoW, there are literally 10+ MMOs out there right now trying to be WoW. Guild Wars 2 just isn't one of them.
    Last edited by Simca; 2012-08-16 at 10:38 PM.
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  5. #105
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by muchtoohigh View Post
    I would argue that is the worst part. Based on everything I've seen, read, and played in beta, there is far too much mindless spamming in the game. Groups don't matter at all. Yes you are playing 'with people' in DE and world bosses, but for all practical purposes you are solo because there is zero need to interact with those players.
    It's a bit more complicated than that. The early dynamic events have relatively poor scalability for the most part, so they're easily zerged down when you have a lot of people in the area (some can still be fairly tricky if you have only a few players). But once you go a bit beyond level 10 or so, the events become more mixed; not hard, but often something where you can't just ignore the mechanics.

    More importantly, it is important that dynamic events are meant to be puggable and that dungeons contain the organized group content (especially in explorable mode). That is confusing when you come from WoW or Rift, where it is the other way round (where the difficult content is generally reserved for big groups, i.e. raids). Dynamic events are (for the most part) not meant to replace organized raiding; they're meant to be content that you can engage in spontaneously, without first setting up complicated tactics.

    Also, as a consequence of this design decision, individual failure in a dynamic event generally does not punish the group as a whole (unless the group is very small); instead, the punishment for failure is more personal. An individual screwing up mechanics will be penalized individually through reduced contribution level, thus lower experience/karma/coin rewards, and armor repair costs if they are actually defeated, but will rarely cause the event to fail entirely.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the higher level dynamic event chains had some events that are set up with a bias for failure (i.e., where failure is a possibility with a fairly high likelihood for non-organized groups). That's because event chains can trigger off both success and failure; failing in such a chain pushes you in a different direction, rather than a repeat of the event.

  6. #106
    ^This page makes me happy ^_^

  7. #107
    Ultimately, level 80 is a byproduct of enjoying the game. If you enjoy GW2, you'll hit level 80. If you don't, you won't.

    It's not about reaching any sort of destination, it's about enjoying the journey. I suspect they could have not even had levels (I think originally this was the plan) and it wouldn't affect the game at all.

    There's no specific reason to hit 80. You'll just happen to reach it by enjoying the game, and nothing changes when you reach it so you can just keep enjoying the game.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Howdi View Post
    Hi,

    Been trying to find some info on why one would want/need to level to 80 or rather the purpose of it? I mean there is no end-game content right? except for pvp?

    I have read the "Mass info for the uninitiated" thread but is says nothing of any benifits of why one would want to level to 80?

    I rather enjoy leveling and im sure the dynamic events will be a blast, but im afraid I still need, and want, some kind of carrot to take me all the way. For example challenging content only available at 80? Gear in terms of power or looks available only at 80? Is there anything at all?

    Big thanks in advance for some clarifications!
    3 dungeons open up at level 80. One of them will most probably be Zhatian.

    Also there aren't enough skill points in the game (only 180) to make a legendary weapon (you need 200) without first reaching level 80. Chances are you would spend some points before reaching 80 (30 for epic skills) so you would basically have to be the equivalent of a +100 level character before even thinking about it.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvanie View Post
    It's a bit more complicated than that. The early dynamic events have relatively poor scalability for the most part, so they're easily zerged down when you have a lot of people in the area (some can still be fairly tricky if you have only a few players). But once you go a bit beyond level 10 or so, the events become more mixed; not hard, but often something where you can't just ignore the mechanics.

    More importantly, it is important that dynamic events are meant to be puggable and that dungeons contain the organized group content (especially in explorable mode). That is confusing when you come from WoW or Rift, where it is the other way round (where the difficult content is generally reserved for big groups, i.e. raids). Dynamic events are (for the most part) not meant to replace organized raiding; they're meant to be content that you can engage in spontaneously, without first setting up complicated tactics.

    Also, as a consequence of this design decision, individual failure in a dynamic event generally does not punish the group as a whole (unless the group is very small); instead, the punishment for failure is more personal. An individual screwing up mechanics will be penalized individually through reduced contribution level, thus lower experience/karma/coin rewards, and armor repair costs if they are actually defeated, but will rarely cause the event to fail entirely.

    That said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the higher level dynamic event chains had some events that are set up with a bias for failure (i.e., where failure is a possibility with a fairly high likelihood for non-organized groups). That's because event chains can trigger off both success and failure; failing in such a chain pushes you in a different direction, rather than a repeat of the event.
    Oh man I missed that post.

    Look up the overtuned fire elemental event for the Asura on Youtube. Actually, here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFn4CLfphA8

    That guy is never grouped, but if you want to do that kind of event without dying over and over, you really need help (and by help I mean coordinated or at least intelligent help) to succeed.

    I think one of the best parts about this game is that you're effectively "grouped" with everyone around you at all times. There's not really any reason to not help another player out (even in reviving other players, reviving other players actually gives pretty decent exp) because unlike most MMOs, as far as I can tell there are no conditions that are set up in which you are competing with others over something.

  10. #110
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willias View Post
    overtuned fire elemental event
    Emphasis there. It's beta.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #111
    Warchief Cherrysoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSerious View Post
    3 dungeons open up at level 80. One of them will most probably be Zhatian.

    Also there aren't enough skill points in the game (only 180) to make a legendary weapon (you need 200) without first reaching level 80. Chances are you would spend some points before reaching 80 (30 for epic skills) so you would basically have to be the equivalent of a +100 level character before even thinking about it.
    When you hit 80 your bar resets continually allowing you to earn skill points up to the equivalent level of 81.. it was in the Video with Colin and Eric when they discussed some of the legendary weps at the end and some of the requirements to get them.

    From 7:05 legendary info/skill points (but watch whole video if you haven't seen it , but skip first 3 mins audio is fkd)

    Last edited by Cherrysoul; 2012-08-16 at 11:00 PM.

  12. #112
    So many threads lately about 'omg there is no end game content what shall I do ' (not the same end game like other MMO's which makes me happy) Just play the game and enjoy the journey without making threads about it all the time Check it out for yourself!

  13. #113
    Emphasis there. It's beta.
    Oh, I know. But when they said the event was overtuned, they also said to expect events to get that difficult later on in the game.

    It gives a decent idea of what to expect from difficult events I think.
    Last edited by Willias; 2012-08-16 at 10:52 PM.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Emphasis there. It's beta.
    Even though it was overtuned, I do hope that there are encounters (properly tuned) that approach that difficulty. Not impossible because of all the knockdowns and burning ground, but requiring more than just mindless zerging.

    Though, ironically, due to the tuning of that encounter, mindless naked zerging became the only "workable" strategy.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    Even though it was overtuned, I do hope that there are encounters (properly tuned) that approach that difficulty. Not impossible because of all the knockdowns and burning ground, but requiring more than just mindless zerging.

    Though, ironically, due to the tuning of that encounter, mindless naked zerging became the only "workable" strategy.
    Actually, there was a corner of the room where the fire rain couldn't reach and you could attack and kill the adds. Got a group of about 6 people over there when I did it, and we did constant hit-and-runs on the boss. Took about one and a half hours to take him down iirc, but because of where we set up to launch attacks from, it wasn't too difficult to get each other back up before death unless we got downed too close to the middle of the room.

    Thinking back to it, having someone that could give AoE stability would have been insanely good for that event.

  16. #116
    This is something I was really worried about, until I got my hands on the actual beta, and after taking a look at what I've been playing the last few months (mostly LoL).

    I was the type of person in WoW who didn't want to do much of anything unless it increased my personal character power. I did very select few achievements to get the one title for each character that I liked (and they were all pretty easy ones). All my mounts were easily obtained. When my raid would say "Hey, let's try and get this achievement!", I was the one rolling my eyes and trying to find ways to get out of it. But I think that was less of a trait I had as a gamer, and more a by-product of the 'progression' model of WoW and similar MMOs.

    I've been on a LoL kick the last 5-6 months, pretty much playing it every day for at least a handful of games (even just bots when I don't have time for real games). I've been level 30 with all of the runes I need for the characters I play for about a year now, but I still play. I really enjoy playing, and haven't stressed about the fact that there is no reward for me playing because that's not what the game was built around. Heck, I haven't even set foot in ranked play, so I don't even have the ELO "carrot-on-a-stick". There is literally no reward for me playing LoL, other than the off chance that they release a new champion I actually want and am not willing to pay RP for. But I still love playing it.

    So I think because Guild Wars 2 isn't so set on some kind of gated, exponential character progression other than leveling, I think I will be able to simply enjoy the basic gameplay of Guild Wars 2. No sub fee helps this too, as I don't feel as much like any given thing is wasting time I am paying for.

    Funny enough, though, GW2 will actually have more incentive to play than even LoL. Since you can get all kinds of cosmetic rewards from playing, it would almost be like Riot suddenly allowing you to purchase skins for very steep IP prices.

  17. #117
    Pit Lord HBpapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowstep View Post
    So from what i´ve read in this thread, is that the things you do at max lvl are the same things you will do at lvl1?
    rofl....good game indeed
    You mean having fun? In that case, yes.
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  18. #118
    High Overlord Basileus's Avatar
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    I guess I can be the first person to ever say it(?).
    I've yet to actually play gw2, but the game looks f***ing awesome. However! I played wow mostly for endgame/raiding. So I'm constantly second guessing myself if making the switch fo fulltime gw2 is really the best idea. But right now, it looks like anet has pretty much set the entire game to be...well endgame.
    From a noob gw2 player, cheers to anet and looking forward to seeing you all on live!

  19. #119
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basileus View Post
    I guess I can be the first person to ever say it(?).
    I've yet to actually play gw2, but the game looks f***ing awesome. However! I played wow mostly for endgame/raiding. So I'm constantly second guessing myself if making the switch fo fulltime gw2 is really the best idea. But right now, it looks like anet has pretty much set the entire game to be...well endgame.
    From a noob gw2 player, cheers to anet and looking forward to seeing you all on live!
    Welp, I think you'll have to change the character in your signature's name That's 1 letter too long.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by rhinomatic View Post
    "Back in the day", we played games because they were fun. The ultimate point of GW2 is no different than it was in UO or DAoC.
    That's a funny joke, I'm still holding my tummy because it aches so much.

    Sorry but please don't compare these new mmos with UO or DAoC :/



    And semi@topic: Of course you could advance in gear in these games.

    also...

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBeard View Post
    Of course you have a goal, your goal is to defeat the Elder Dragons. Only, at level 1 you can't realistically call that a goal, it is more like a dream. You start as a local hero, helping out around your home city, sorting out issues with your own people, then you wander farther into new lands, you discover new people, you fight new foes, you learn more about the Elder Dragons but they're still completely out of your reach. During each step of your journey, the Dragons are your motivation, your drive, but they're not always part of your everyday life. Well Guild Wars 2 is about that everyday life, the unexpectedness of it, the characters living around you, the issues, the friendships and all the different situations you find yourself into. Levels in GW2 are insignificant, they're a pacing device intended to gate players through different areas. As such, you really have to abandon the idea that anything before level 80 is only there to lead you to that situation, that is absolutely wrong in GW2, a game where you can get all the way from level 1 to level 80 without making a single step outside of your capital city of choice.

    All in all, yes there are goals in GW2, but unlike other MMOs, you don't need to be max level to start working towards these goals. You will level WHILE working towards your goals, without actively thinking about it. You're a PvE/Lore guy? Your goal is to advance your personal story, go to Orr, fight Zhaitan, complete all the explorable modes of every dungeon, leveling is a side-effect to doing these activities. You're a PvP guy ? Your goal is to achieve top ranks and be ahead of the meta-game, leveling is irrelevant. You're a WvW guy ? Your goal is to lead battles, take keeps, cut-off enemy supply, and you'll level while you do it. You're a crafter ? Your goal is to max out all professions, discover all the recipes, control the trading post and make exotic armor, leveling is again something that happens naturally.

    really nice post, but sadly that could be said about any other mmorpg. :S

    @ topic:

    expect to do the same thing at 80 you do at 10. Only a bit more epic maybe.
    Last edited by Bluegirl91; 2012-08-17 at 02:41 AM.

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