IS VT dispel protection gone?

[Deleted]

is this true? is vampiric touch dispel protection gone in mop? lol

[Skandulous]

not its a 3 sec fear and ppl still dispel it and lol

[Deleted]

From what I understood, its removed from the VT itself, but is now a PvP 4set bonus. Which sucks, because judging by bonuses, mooncloth will be better ONCE AGAIN. ;/

[Deleted]

lol, can you link pvp set bonus?

lol nvm found it http://mop.wowhead.com/item=85017

[Sazabius]

4 pc seems ok, 2pc is mediocre... I'd rather have the mooncloth 2pc :\

[Yvaelle]

There is a pretty decent chance that Shadowplay will be one of our only really strong comps in MoP again, so if your lock is affliction - you could just go mooncloth anyways and ignore satin set bonuses again ^^

[Lulbalance]

not its a 3 sec fear and ppl still dispel it and lol

you said fear..is it a fear or a horror in MoP?

[AvaEve]

There is a pretty decent chance that Shadowplay will be one of our only really strong comps in MoP again, so if your lock is affliction - you could just go mooncloth anyways and ignore satin set bonuses again ^^

It probably won't be all that necessary in other comps as well, considering all healers have 8 sec cd on dispel.

[Yvaelle]

you said fear..is it a fear or a horror in MoP?

A horror with no DR. (UA for the record is a Silence with no DR)

[Arazen]

Well at least against priests, monks and paladins you may be able to bait their dispel by using a 1 orb DP. The disc set bonuses seem just too good to give up for spriests.

More resilience when I shield myself - the most trained class in history? Yes, please.
More off-healing for free, when I use PoM - which I keep on cd with the new shadow form glyph anyway? Yes, please.

A gap opener looks promising on Dispersion, but usually you switch targets to keep up the pressure, when a priest pops this, so it may not be that useful. I wonder though if the speed increase stacks with the mounted speed. Going from 200% to 320% sounds pretty awesome.

The 4-piece seems good, too, but healers are going to want to dispel CC rather than a DoT that can be immediately refreshed anyway.

Mooncloth is better imho.

[Deleted]

Well at least against priests, monks and paladins you may be able to bait their dispel by using a 1 orb DP.

And then what, generate 3 orbs within the 8 seconds it takes for dispel to come off cooldown? Spriests have needed proper dispel protection (UA level damage on dispel basically) for the entirety of Cata, I'm not holding my breath for a decent fix. After an entire expansion of spriests using mooncloth because of the stronger set-bonus, this expansion they've taken something they know we don't like and made it our set-bonus. Wow.

[Arazen]

And then what, generate 3 orbs within the 8 seconds it takes for dispel to come off cooldown?

Well, once their dispel is down you can apply pressure by cc'ing the healer's team mates. This is assuming, that the dispeller is the enemy healer. Considering how powerful dispel is right now, I can see mop arenas being a lot about getting the healers to waste their dispel.

If there are dps classes with disease removal in the enemy team (paladins, monks), you won't land a full time DP without cc'ing them. Better dispel protection on VT wouldn't help there, because VT is a magic effect.

[stickyjam]

VT dispel needs a damage component!

[Yvaelle]

VT dispel needs a damage component!

It really does.

And Devouring Plague needs dispel protection from disease dispels.

IMO, Sin And Punishment should either hit hard, or - it should apply to each dot dispelled. So if you dispel vt+pain+dp = 9 second horror with no DR, maybe that will discourage them from dispelling it!

[Verain]

There is a pretty decent chance that Shadowplay will be one of our only really strong comps in MoP again, so if your lock is affliction - you could just go mooncloth anyways and ignore satin set bonuses again ^^

And you, stuck with a rogue, QQ!

:P

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 06:53 PM ----------

I'm pretty sure VT dispel protection doesn't have damage because that would make it too similar to UA.

I'm also not as convinced that dispel protection needs a buff with the cooldowns on dispels as I was previously. I also think that adding an additional CC is less the way to go that something like a debuff reading "Your hit chance is reduced by 50%, your healing is reduced by 50%, and your casting time is increased by 50%" for a couple seconds. That has some "diminished casting" flavor, and should act to discourage enemy action. Alternatively, a decent dispel protection could do nothing but double the cooldown of the dispel that dispelled it.

[Yvaelle]

And you, stuck with a rogue, QQ!

:P

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 06:53 PM ----------

I'm pretty sure VT dispel protection doesn't have damage because that would make it too similar to UA.

I'm also not as convinced that dispel protection needs a buff with the cooldowns on dispels as I was previously. I also think that adding an additional CC is less the way to go that something like a debuff reading "Your hit chance is reduced by 50%, your healing is reduced by 50%, and your casting time is increased by 50%" for a couple seconds. That has some "diminished casting" flavor, and should act to discourage enemy action. Alternatively, a decent dispel protection could do nothing but double the cooldown of the dispel that dispelled it.

Yes, long ago they told us that putting damage on our dispel deterrence made it too much like UA. In the same spirit, I suggest we have removed the damage of Sinister Strike, because putting damage on it was too much like Backstab! >: )

Immediately when they said that, we suggested they either put a mana burn in place of the damage, or put a heal to the priest on S&P, but they didn't go for either. One risk shadow will run in MoP, is that because our mana regen is based entirely on Vampiric Touch, prudent dispelling of Vampiric Touch may leave Shadowpriests OOM - which surely isn't their design for PvP - but is a very real risk when dispelling VT isn't sufficiently penalized.

With the number of classes that can now trinket out of magical effects without suffering the penalty of the dispel, VT is at even further risk (rogues via cloak, locks via unbound will, enh via shamanistic rage, paladins via bubble, etc).

Also Pfft! I'm turning you magically into a resto druid and running Shadow/Lock/Druid in MoP! You pick a comp that works best for MoP rogues and I'll pick a toon to level to support you. RPS wasn't really a thing this expansion, and it probably won't be a thing in MoP.

Edit: It occurs to me now what they should add to Sin and Punishment is that when it is dispelled we are returned mana equal to the remaining return we would have gotten from Vampiric Touch - so dispelling VTs is not a way to mana burn spriests.

[AvaEve]

Yes, long ago they told us that putting damage on our dispel deterrence made it too much like UA. In the same spirit, I suggest we have removed the damage of Sinister Strike, because putting damage on it was too much like Backstab! >: )

Immediately when they said that, we suggested they either put a mana burn in place of the damage, or put a heal to the priest on S&P, but they didn't go for either. One risk shadow will run in MoP, is that because our mana regen is based entirely on Vampiric Touch, prudent dispelling of Vampiric Touch may leave Shadowpriests OOM - which surely isn't their design for PvP - but is a very real risk when dispelling VT isn't sufficiently penalized.

With the number of classes that can now trinket out of magical effects without suffering the penalty of the dispel, VT is at even further risk (rogues via cloak, locks via unbound will, enh via shamanistic rage, paladins via bubble, etc).

Also Pfft! I'm turning you magically into a resto druid and running Shadow/Lock/Druid in MoP! You pick a comp that works best for MoP rogues and I'll pick a toon to level to support you. RPS wasn't really a thing this expansion, and it probably won't be a thing in MoP.

Edit: It occurs to me now what they should add to Sin and Punishment is that when it is dispelled we are returned mana equal to the remaining return we would have gotten from Vampiric Touch - so dispelling VTs is not a way to mana burn spriests.

I very much doubt oom'ing a spriest by dispelling all his vt's will occur. Dispel my vt? I'll full fear your dps while your dispel is on cooldown.

[Direshadow]

Dispel protection isn't that big of a deal any more since dispeling has a cooldown now.

Also, I for one think that the Shadow Bonus for Shadow is pretty nice, especially in bg situations.

[Yvaelle]

I very much doubt oom'ing a spriest by dispelling all his vt's will occur. Dispel my vt? I'll full fear your dps while your dispel is on cooldown.

Sounds nice on paper, in practice - we'll see. The standard targetted dispels are 8s cooldowns now, but tons of classes have dot wipes now, and we're the only dps class whose primary resource is dispellable. Our spells are still quite expensive, and in arenas where mass dispel and halo will be critical and cost a copious amount of mana, I can definitely see going OOM being a problem. Besides, the real issue is that Sin and Punishment needs buffs, and if they won't give us damage or healing or mana burn, then they should at least give us some resource back. Ooh, if not mana - then it could generate a shadow orb! ^^

[AvaEve]

Sounds nice on paper, in practice - we'll see. The standard targetted dispels are 8s cooldowns now, but tons of classes have dot wipes now, and we're the only dps class whose primary resource is dispellable. Our spells are still quite expensive, and in arenas where mass dispel and halo will be critical and cost a copious amount of mana, I can definitely see going OOM being a problem. Besides, the real issue is that Sin and Punishment needs buffs, and if they won't give us damage or healing or mana burn, then they should at least give us some resource back. Ooh, if not mana - then it could generate a shadow orb! ^^

"dot wipes" are not necessarily dispels. On live, cloak of shadows, ice block, divine shield do not trigger the vt horror effect on the main target nor any enemies close by; the spell is considered "removed" rather than "dispelled". Contrast this with Glyph of Shamanistic Rage, which indeed does "dispel" and thus will trigger the backlash effects of vt, ua, and flameshock.

I don't know a thing about monks, but the only new "dot wipe" i see is greater invis talent for mages. My point is whatever dispel protection you put into vt won't be affected by these "removal" talents/spells.

---

Of course we should expect to oom if we have to heal/shield too much; however, looking at some of Talbadar's mop videos I don't think we should expect to run oom doing pure dps with vt getting removed/dispelled every now and then.