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  1. #21
    Nice guide Evralia. Very cool to already see these compiles and crunch some numbers at this point.

    Regarding stats values one point. If:

    1% haste = 423 haste rating
    1% Crit = 600 crit rating
    1% Mastery = 302 mastery rating

    With mastery being so cheap shouldn't that placed it above haste on the stat weights? Specially now that all your aff. rotation benefits from it.

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Haizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    There are no stat weights for the Pre-Raid profile currently up at http://www.simulationcraft.org/, and the latest version of Simcraft has not been uploaded to test it yet, so I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. You're probably right though, but it's an assumption until it's been tested.
    Yeah it doesn't show stat weights, I was going off the gear weights of the older one. Which actually doesn't accurately show the stat weights. There still aren't any stat weights, which is bugging me, since that is one of the crucial moments when you start raiding every expansion.

    I will say though, this is a great guide. Keep up the good work.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore View Post
    Nice guide Evralia. Very cool to already see these compiles and crunch some numbers at this point.

    Regarding stats values one point. If:

    1% haste = 423 haste rating
    1% Crit = 600 crit rating
    1% Mastery = 302 mastery rating

    With mastery being so cheap shouldn't that placed it above haste on the stat weights? Specially now that all your aff. rotation benefits from it.
    We use a programme called Simcraft to determine what the best stat weights are. When I wrote this guide under the previous beta build, the stats were shown in favour of Haste (only very slightly, which is why that gear set still has a lot of Mastery on it). However, since the most recent beta build, it seems those stats have shifted even more in favour of Mastery. I'll be updating the gear list as soon as the newest Simcraft is downloadable.

  4. #24
    Have been playing mostly demo on beta, you're saying pre 90 we should let ua and corrupt drop altogether before refreshing? Is it an internal mechanic that extends the duration of dots or is it an actual spell / passive at lvl 90?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gohzerlock View Post
    Have been playing mostly demo on beta, you're saying pre 90 we should let ua and corrupt drop altogether before refreshing? Is it an internal mechanic that extends the duration of dots or is it an actual spell / passive at lvl 90?


    Pandemic
    is a skill that is learned at level 90 that allows you to extend the duration of your DoTs and not waste any DPS.

    Below level 90 you don't have any ability to do this, so if you put up an 18 second Corruption, and at 3 seconds left you cast Corruption again, you would put an 18 second Corruption up on the enemy. It still ticks at the same speed (so it's not "true" clipping), but the duration not being extended means that you waste time if you recast it before it's completely expired. So yes, if you're raiding at level 85 you should not refresh them until they fall off. Don't do this for Agony though, or you'll lose your 10 stacks. Refresh Agony as close to its expiry as possible.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 02:24 PM.

  6. #26
    Nice write up. While I agree with your general observations on Tier 2 talents, I have to say that (situationally) Shadowfury is the best talent on that tier. Stunning adds (or even a single add) has proven to be very useful in Cataclysm and in MoP Beta Testing. While there may not be a clear winner for PvE on Tier 2, I think shadowfury deserves a mention.

    Also, doesn't the Soul Swap glyph impose a 30s cd on SS? I guess your section on glyphs just mentions glyphs to consider rather than "must haves." Do you have a recommendation aside from SS?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kashii View Post
    Nice write up. While I agree with your general observations on Tier 2 talents, I have to say that (situationally) Shadowfury is the best talent on that tier. Stunning adds (or even a single add) has proven to be very useful in Cataclysm and in MoP Beta Testing. While there may not be a clear winner for PvE on Tier 2, I think shadowfury deserves a mention.

    Also, doesn't the Soul Swap glyph impose a 30s cd on SS? I guess your section on glyphs just mentions glyphs to consider rather than "must haves." Do you have a recommendation aside from SS?
    The Soul Swap glyph does indeed impose a 30s cd on SS, but I would definitely consider it a must have in most situations, especially with the new Soulburn: Soul Swap mechanic. Soulburn: Soul Swap instantly applies all your DoTs to one enemy, uses a soul shard, and does not trigger a cooldown*.

    The only situation I can imagine where you would want an unglyphed Soul Swap would be if you need to instantly apply your DoTs to multiple enemies in succession that all need to die very quickly, one after another (but whilst not active at the same time), since unglyphed Soul Swap doesn't actually increase your DPS in any way (since it takes the debuffs away from one enemy, and puts them on another). This situation is pretty rare (I can't think of a single encounter right now that would be able to take advantage of this - maybe Omnitron if you were worried about the shield breaking.) There are barely any situations where you would need to transfer your DoTs from more one target, to another, to another, in a 30 second period, and not want the DoTs to remain behind on any of them.

    This is even more true now that we have Soulburn: Soul Swap, since if you really need to apply DoTs to multiple enemies fast, you can do that and not trigger a cooldown. (*on the current beta build, Soulburn: Soul Swap does trigger a cooldown when glyphed, but it is believed to be a bug).

    So yeah, I would say it's a mandatory glyph, or as close to mandatory as you're going to get.

    Unfortunately, there aren't really any other interesting major glyphs for Affliction.

    Regarding your comments as Shadowfury - I agree with you in a lot of respects. Shadowfury is great for add fights. The reason I selected Mortal Coil as the default choice was because it was the only talent that would be guaranteed to have *some* use on every fight (thanks to its healing effect) so is a great default choice. I am planning to write encounter specific guides for every boss and every spec, where I would mention specific talent choices for individual encounters. That said, I will update the wording to mention this.

  8. #28
    WRT gearing, you should think about adding a BiS list for pre-Terrace/Heart, since that's going to 4 weeks long. Not because it's particularly hard to see what's BiS, but because people should know that the BiS requires Warlocks and Mages to be Revered in all 4 (Shado-Pan, Golden Lotus, August Celestials, and Klaxxi) reps, as well as have the PvP off-hand...

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    WRT gearing, you should think about adding a BiS list for pre-Terrace/Heart, since that's going to 4 weeks long. Not because it's particularly hard to see what's BiS, but because people should know that the BiS requires Warlocks and Mages to be Revered in all 4 (Shado-Pan, Golden Lotus, August Celestials, and Klaxxi) reps, as well as have the PvP off-hand...
    Definitely, it's on my list and I'll probably release it during the first week of MoP, just before the release of Mogu'shan. Bookmark my website to make sure you don't miss it.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post


    Pandemic
    is a skill that is learned at level 90 that allows you to extend the duration of your DoTs and not waste any DPS.

    Below level 90 you don't have any ability to do this, so if you put up an 18 second Corruption, and at 3 seconds left you cast Corruption again, you would put an 18 second Corruption up on the enemy. It still ticks at the same speed (so it's not "true" clipping), but the duration not being extended means that you waste time if you recast it before it's completely expired. So yes, if you're raiding at level 85 you should not refresh them until they fall off. Don't do this for Agony though, or you'll lose your 10 stacks. Refresh Agony as close to its expiry as possible.
    Ty and very good guide.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post


    Pandemic
    is a skill that is learned at level 90 that allows you to extend the duration of your DoTs and not waste any DPS.

    Below level 90 you don't have any ability to do this, so if you put up an 18 second Corruption, and at 3 seconds left you cast Corruption again, you would put an 18 second Corruption up on the enemy. It still ticks at the same speed (so it's not "true" clipping), but the duration not being extended means that you waste time if you recast it before it's completely expired. So yes, if you're raiding at level 85 you should not refresh them until they fall off. Don't do this for Agony though, or you'll lose your 10 stacks. Refresh Agony as close to its expiry as possible.
    Is the refresh everything other than agony/doom mechanic no longer valid in MoP or is the guy writing the guide have no clue how the class works?

  12. #32
    Thank you so much for your hard work

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Badahs View Post
    Is the refresh everything other than agony/doom mechanic no longer valid in MoP or is the guy writing the guide have no clue how the class works?
    Snide comments aside, let's explain.

    This is how it works on live:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, the DoT will be extended to (roughly) 21 seconds and it will tick continuously. This means that if you refresh it between the penultimate tick, and the final tick, you lose no dps.

    This is how it works BELOW level 90 on beta:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, the DoT will be extended back to it's original 18 second duration and it will tick continuously. This means that if you refresh it before it runs out, you don't "clip" the tick, but over the course of the fight you will cast it more times than necessary and waste dps.

    This is how it works at level 90 on beta:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, it adds the full duration of Corruption onto the time remaining on your current DoT, up to a maximum of 50% of the base duration.

    So yes, the mechanic at level 85 on beta is different to the mechanic at level 85 on live.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 04:37 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Snide comments aside, let's explain.

    This is how it works on live:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, the DoT will be extended to 21 seconds and it will tick continuously. This means that if you refresh it between the penultimate tick, and the final tick, you lose no dps.

    This is how it works BELOW level 90 on beta:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, the DoT will be extended back to it's original 18 second duration and it will tick continuously.

    This is how it works at level 90 on beta:

    You cast Corruption. It lasts 18 seconds. If you cast it again before it runs out, it adds the full duration of Corruption onto the time remaining on your current DoT, up to a maximum of 50% of the base duration.

    So yes, the mechanic at level 85 on beta is different to the mechanic at level 85 on live.
    my apologies buddy. you wrote "raiding at level 85" which implied current content on live since patch hasn't been released on live yet and nobody would be running 85 raids on beta.

  15. #35
    Soul Link in its current state shares damage between you and your pet at an 80:20 ratio.
    Not true, it basically makes you and your pet share a health pool (similar to Valiona and Theralion). Damage taken is then split between the two of you so that you and your pet lose the same % of current health. Your health pools are not "readjusted" so for instance if you toggle Soul Link on and off, it won't magically give you and your pet the same % of health. Madness of Deathwing Heroic was bugged in that pets did not have the 90% AoE damage taken reduction against the parasitic backlash. So on fights with unavoidable AoE damage, you increase your effective health with this talent, since your pet only takes 10% AoE (110% damage taken) but your effective health goes up 25%.

    If you use Grimoire of Sacrifice, Soul Link is a flat 20% health boost.

    Sacrificial Pact offers you a 300k shield, but Dark Bargain could save you from a lot more depending on how it's used.
    Sacrifical Pact is on a 1 minute cooldown and gives you a shield equal to about 50% of your health. If you use Sacrifice, then you sacrifice 50% of your health to get a shield equal to 100% of your health - this is based on current health so it assumes you are topped (in PvE mostly your pet will be topped if you don't use Sacrifice). Note that if you are using a pet, then you can use this ability even if stunned (if your pet is not).

    Dark Bargain absorbs all damage for 10 seconds, then you take 50% of it (so this is a 50% cooldown) as a DoT over 20 seconds - on a 3 minute CD. You can easily soak massive attacks with this ability. The DoT is shadow damage and can further be reduced by unending resolve and twilight ward. As an illustration of its power, soaking an entire unmitigated, un-nerfed 25 heroic impale (1.2 million) leaves you with just a 30k/sec DoT for 20 seconds, which can easily be healed through with a few direct heals and some HoTs.

    Basically, for generic damage I would take Soul Link if using Sacrifice (health boost) and Sacrificial Pact if using a pet. If there's massive, predictable bursts of damage I would take Dark Bargain.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Badahs View Post
    my apologies buddy. you wrote "raiding at level 85" which implied current content on live since patch hasn't been released on live yet and nobody would be running 85 raids on beta.
    By "raiding at level 85" I mean in two weeks when the MoP pre-patch goes live, and people are still raiding at level 85. The new DoT effects will be active then.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    By "raiding at level 85" I mean in two weeks when the MoP pre-patch goes live, and people are still raiding at level 85. The new DoT effects will be active then.
    Yeah I figured as much. I shouldn't have been as rude as I was in my original post. You obviously put a good amount of work in your original post so even if you were wrong I should have asked more politely. Sorry again.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Inactivity View Post
    Not true, it basically makes you and your pet share a health pool (similar to Valiona and Theralion). Damage taken is then split between the two of you so that you and your pet lose the same % of current health. Your health pools are not "readjusted" so for instance if you toggle Soul Link on and off, it won't magically give you and your pet the same % of health. Madness of Deathwing Heroic was bugged in that pets did not have the 90% AoE damage taken reduction against the parasitic backlash. So on fights with unavoidable AoE damage, you increase your effective health with this talent, since your pet only takes 10% AoE (110% damage taken) but your effective health goes up 25%.

    If you use Grimoire of Sacrifice, Soul Link is a flat 20% health boost.



    Sacrifical Pact is on a 1 minute cooldown and gives you a shield equal to about 50% of your health. If you use Sacrifice, then you sacrifice 50% of your health to get a shield equal to 100% of your health - this is based on current health so it assumes you are topped (in PvE mostly your pet will be topped if you don't use Sacrifice). Note that if you are using a pet, then you can use this ability even if stunned (if your pet is not).

    Dark Bargain absorbs all damage for 10 seconds, then you take 50% of it (so this is a 50% cooldown) as a DoT over 20 seconds - on a 3 minute CD. You can easily soak massive attacks with this ability. The DoT is shadow damage and can further be reduced by unending resolve and twilight ward. As an illustration of its power, soaking an entire unmitigated, un-nerfed 25 heroic impale (1.2 million) leaves you with just a 30k/sec DoT for 20 seconds, which can easily be healed through with a few direct heals and some HoTs.

    Basically, for generic damage I would take Soul Link if using Sacrifice (health boost) and Sacrificial Pact if using a pet. If there's massive, predictable bursts of damage I would take Dark Bargain.
    Thanks for the clarification on Soul Link. It's still an extremely dangerous talent though, and pales in comparison to Dark Bargain.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-08-17 at 05:44 PM.

  19. #39
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    Both this and your other work are awesome. Many thanks for the time you've put into this.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Thanks for the clarification on Soul Link. It's still an extremely dangerous talent though, and pales in comparison to Dark Bargain.
    I disagree, actually.

    1) It's not "dangerous" if you are using Sacrifice, it's a flat 20% health boost.
    2) It's predictable which encounters have pet-killing mechanics and which ones do not. For instance, Ultraxion does not have pet killing mechanics.

    Finally, Dark Bargain is a pretty incredible talent, I'll give you that, but it's downside is its 3 minute cooldown. Sacrificial Pact is a 1 minute cooldown, and Soul Link is always there all the time. So Dark Bargain is good, but only if there is something significant to "bargain" that will come infrequently (Ultraxion, for instance).

    For instance on Madness, depending on what progression status is, I might have taken Soul Link over Dark Bargain simply because it is always up, whereas Dark Bargain is only up every 3 minutes (I could only use it on either the bolt, the first blisterings, or the second blisterings, and it's still only a 50% reduction). Keep in mind you can avoid the pet damage by using Sacrifice or by keeping your pet on the Wing/Arm tentacle.

    Sacrificial Pact I think is overlooked as a talent, I think it's incredible due to its cooldown. For instance on Spine, you can save healers a LOT of grief if you Sacrificial Pact every time you are fiery gripped.


    ------------------


    I still think your guide is incredible by the way, but yeah, just nit-picking at the situational defensive talent tier.
    Last edited by Inactivity; 2012-08-17 at 07:52 PM.

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