Last edited by almara2512; 2013-05-24 at 01:26 PM.
You get shards from Soul Draining low hp targets as far as I know.
im perfectly aware of that, and that was what i wrote, i do agree with you that any additional haste paste the break point still benefits you and that is true, but haste isnt all there is, it might be for spriests, but for locks it differs quite a bit, and the value between mastery and haste is almost neglicable and there isnt only single target fights in ToT, as a rule for locks, you should almost never go far past a break point, and once you reach a haste breakpoint you should always put anything you can over said breakpoint into mastery.
afaik you cant drain soul all the time, well you can at a dps loss, on most fights in ToT you wont be able to drain soul adds to keep your soul shards high, you have to rely on nightfall procs to recharge your soul shards, most times you'll be sitting at 1 or 0 shards, "hardcasting" your dots.
Last edited by almara2512; 2013-05-24 at 03:33 PM.
I notice a lot of haste discussions in here, and i wanted to give my 2 cents. You might see a 200 dps increase in Simcraft with error margain making it non dps upgrade to stack mroe haste. You need to remember that simcrafts simulate you 10.000 results of tries, where you see a 0,0000000000000001% higher chance on your RPPM trinkets to proc. Keep in mind you "cap" your highest burst potential lowering your mastery, because mastery just scales the best with dots. If you put one dot line on a mob on Horridon it does more damage with mastery stacking then haste, notice how you go HAM on Prim with mastery buffs? Simcraft is 'overvaluing' haste quite a bit.
In average you will kill a boss 10-20 times pr tier, that's 9980 less tries then simcraft average, so your 0,15% more rppm trinket proc really doesnt matter! It's RNG, its luck and even with my Thunderforged HC 2/2 Lei shen trinket, last raid i had 3% uptime on Jinrokh and 4% on Mag. I dont think anyone wants to kill a boss 10.000 times to do overall 200 more dps!
So you need to look into what you should benefit from. If you sacrifice doing a few thousand more on your top DPS parse for doing 200 more DPS overall on 10.000 tries, with how RNG the game is at this state, what would you choose?
That being said, going agony / UA haste caps > mastery should work out, full BIS + 2/2 upgrade its going to be hard to get rid of all your haste anyway!
But those saying "go all haste", i really disagree and i tried it out myself. Most fights as Demonology the heavy mastery just shines too. But a good guideline is the 9778 vs the 13k breakpoints, but going for the 13k breakpoint wont increase your DPS if your shit doesnt proc
we are talking minimal benefits being within error margains and simc is overvaluing haste to such extend that the 20 times you killl a boss you WONT possible be able to justify and see it work out.
Watch out with the haste stacking, pray to the RNG gods and go ham!
A good picture showcasing how it works these days, hope you enjoy
think he sacrificed something innocent to the RNG gods for that like a unicorn or something.
Jin'rohk is propably most RNG boss. You should just see my luck in that boss. Once i have had all procs up with DS and LUST in the first pool when we killed the boss, usually when this happens someone messes up and wipes the raid. And fun part is, when i had that "good" RNG our logger forgot to turn logs on, and it would have been +320k parse. Like last time we killed it, 2 wipes, both times i had all procs in the firstpool same time. Then when we killed it in third try i had 10.6% uptime on BotH and 4.5% UVLS, neither of those two procced during pool, 3 times i got Lightning focus and two of them were during the first pool.
Whilst Simcraft may overvalue haste slightly due to the fact that it's basically total fucking RNG, Haste still sims (barely) higher than Mastery for me single target, even with no PPM trinkets and no Meta gem in the sim.
But yes, good insight.
Reforging 2k mastery into haste for me, looses me a good +13-14k DPS (GoSac and GoSup) on the CD burst so lets say i dropped another 6k from 9778 to 16k we might be looking at +20-30k or more~~ DPS druing burst. This is not even looking at the pools / how it would work there timing CD's inside.
With GoSup my highest DPS try in simcraft is around the same with either mastery or haste, with GoSac my highest DPS try went up by 3k DPS and minimum highest DPS try went up with 1k in the 2k more mastery setup. But remember that over 10.000 tries i'd see a 500-1k OVERALL dps increase, but i never pull the boss 10.000 times and my lowest and highest DPS output was above if i went haste, now this was even WITH rppm trinkets. Now this is pure single target fight with no pool buff where you burst or any multi dotting 1 row , 2 row, constant 4 line rows or w/e.
So in this example the RNG factors of stacking more into mastery instead of haste as GoSac shouldn't really be there since your lowest log is higher and your highest log is higher but over 10.000 try you will see a slight DPS increase if you compare all the logs with each other
So GoSup having nearly the same max output of logs regardless mastery or haste could be worth checking, but the fights we play GoSup is mainly the multi dotting fights, and then we need to look at mastery vs haste on targets and breakpoints and thus going HAM haste wont solve it either.
Not to mention all this is within margain errors evening everything nearly flat out
My point overall is that there are no fights we can really use much from these odd haste values, especially when the values are so close that its a bit silly. Once you equip RPPM it drags haste above mastery in a silly amount where it doesnt belong.
And i agree a bit but i wouldn't compare it to the hit cap because the hit cap is like russian roulette where you get shot in the face every xx try where adjusting your mastery and haste is more like adjusting the lighting in your room.
Anyways its a topic for discussion, and interesting one imo, because it's rather complicated and ive spent sleepless nights thinking this through and i dont have a final conclusion what i even think. Im just trying to put down some ideas and saying RPPM makes SimC a bit weird in showing overly use of haste being superior to mastery on pretty much anything.
so with being ilvl 520, i'm wondering what the best affliction setup is in terms of gems and reforge. I'm starting to get confused with all the mastery/haste discussion and a lot of that discussion seems to center around characters with 535+ ilvl.
blancoo, the general rule of thumb is to go for 9778 haste breakpoint and the rest into mastery, if you cant reach that breakpoint then go for the prior one which is around 6800 and then rest into haste. nothing has really changed, there has just been a very big focus on stacking haste in 5.3 due to rppm trinkets and going from GoSac to GoSup and as a result i think simcraft have scewed the stat weights a bit, not that haste isnt better in many situations, but my approach to it, is pretty much the same as the one i had in 5.1, reach a haste break point and put everything else into mastery.
Here is a question for Sparkuggz, Evralia, and anyone else that feels that they can help justifying which way I should go.
I just recently went from 9778 haste point with ~79% mastery unbuffed to 13,157 (for the extra ticks on UA and Agony) with ~68% mastery. My currently ilvl is 530 exactly. As I progress through ToT currently 10/13 Heroic 10man I'm finding myself bouncing between specs.. Afflic MS, Demo / Destro for OS. Currently going Demo next week to prep for Lei Shen.
So my question here is. After reading both of your posts you do not mention what is the acceptable minimum amount of mastery to have crossing into the new haste point threshold. Since I was at 9778 haste, I had quite a bit of mastery. But now at the 13k haste point, I only have ~68% mastery unbuffed. If you both were in my shoes.. What would you do? Keep in mind I play mostly Affliction especially on majority of the multi dotting fights. Jin'rokh is nice to go all out haste but I'd hate to gem / reforge weekly for that fight only. So I'm looking for an answer that will do me great justice overall and not one particular fight. Great single target dps as well as multi-target fights. It would be nice to be able to rank in both scenario's (multi-dotting & single target).
If you would like to simcraft my character or review my stats the Armory link is under my signature.
Thank you in advance and I look forward to your response.