1. #501
    Duplicated dot damage from MG takes its numbers from the dot itself, not current SP.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...rdwrkjzn1/log/
    Last edited by Khadjid; 2012-10-26 at 03:05 PM.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    One question I do have though - and I need answers with maths or proof, not with conjecture - the damage of the ghost ticks that Malefic grasp generates; is it based upon the damage of the DoT or the damage that Malefic Grasp does?

    For example, let's say I have DoTs buffed up to say 10,000 Intellect, and then I lose all my procs. The DoTs are still buffed now until they are refreshed, but my character now only has say 6,000 Intellect. If I start channeling Malefic Grasp, do the bonus ticks have 6000 Intellect or 10,000?

    If they only have 6000, then I'm placing way too much emphasis on dot refreshing and not enough on channeling whilst they are active.


    EDIT: NVM the following part, if above poster is right, I just suck at reading the combat log ingame.




    From a quick test on the dummies, with no procs active, only my weapon with windsong, the shadow dots from MG seem to automatically update with the mastery proc for instance, and only last as long as the proc lasts. What's very interesting is that it seems the shadowdots update automatically with a Mastery buff for instance, even while our normal dots aren't refreshed to take advantage of it.

    Someone should probably cross check this, cause I'm not the best at reading combat log in game, but this seems very clear from what I tried. I only tried with Corruption and the weapon proc on a dummy, though, but it should work in other situations too.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2012-10-26 at 02:54 PM.
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  3. #503
    I was using Jade Spirit enchant on the test, so I only had intellect procs to check. I'd have to make a new test to check if it works differently with mastery than intellect, don't have any other weapons atm though, and not gonna waste the Jade Spirit enchant for that test.

  4. #504
    You say it isn't hard to keep track of buffed dots. With affliction, I'm always thinking ahead, and I often find it hard to think backwards as well. I don't know - maybe I have the memory of a fish but sometimes I think 'was it this round of dots that had DS on them or the round before?'

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    I was using Jade Spirit enchant on the test, so I only had intellect procs to check. I'd have to make a new test to check if it works differently with mastery than intellect, don't have any other weapons atm though, and not gonna waste the Jade Spirit enchant for that test.
    I wouldn't bother. If it works for 1 proc it works fro them all I presume.

    It's just really hard to keep track of when buffs set in and what you exactly did from just the ingame combat log. WIth your results you can plainly see what's going on, while my "results" were more educated guess work then anything else. I should refrain from getting involved in shit like this, but I find it too interesting not to try and get answers myself Lesson learnt though, I'm not even going to try and get involved with theorycrafting again, I'll just wait for smarter people to get the relevant answers.
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  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I wouldn't bother. If it works for 1 proc it works fro them all I presume.

    It's just really hard to keep track of when buffs set in and what you exactly did from just the ingame combat log. WIth your results you can plainly see what's going on, while my "results" were more educated guess work then anything else. I should refrain from getting involved in shit like this, but I find it too interesting not to try and get answers myself Lesson learnt though, I'm not even going to try and get involved with theorycrafting again, I'll just wait for smarter people to get the relevant answers.
    But even from incorrect theories we gain much knowledge. If you say something that someone thinks to be false then they would probably go and test to make sure they're right and then show you how they're right. If no one was ever to say something questionable or flat out wrong, then maybe these small details wouldn't be worked out for certain.

  7. #507
    I noticed that under some haste values dot durations are longer than their base durations. Are there formulas that can calculate durations?
    Maybe there is some magic haste amount thet makes all three dots as long as possible, allowing us to refresh dots less frequently and squeeze more MG ticks. Not sure if damage increase, but worth investigating.

    Edit: Nevermind, found the formula. If I have not made any mistakes, magic numbers are 3022, 5288 and 9065. Numbers smaller than those have significantly lower total durations, numbers larger than those have slightly lower durations. Rounded durations:

    Haste: 3022
    Total duration: 57.87
    Agony: 24.27
    Corr: 18.67
    Ua: 14.93

    Haste: 9065
    Total:57.65
    Agony: 24.71
    Corr: 18.12
    Ua: 14.82

    Haste: 5288
    Total:56.89
    Agony: 24.89
    Corr: 17.78
    Ua: 14.22

    Numbers for our current haste caps:
    Haste: 4198
    Total:56.40
    Agony: 23.65
    Corr: 18.19
    Ua: 14.56

    Haste: 4717
    Total:55.78
    Agony: 23.39
    Corr: 17.99
    Ua: 14.39
    Last edited by Ridcully; 2012-10-27 at 10:15 AM.

  8. #508
    I have to say that seems a bit odd, because the haste plateau I've seen the biggest DPS increase from getting to is the 6637 rating for the extra UA tick (and Agony just before that). I've been thinking most of that has been coming from the extended duration of the dots rather than the extra ticks, since the SimCraft model is using Pandemic in the same way we are (starting to refresh at <50% rather than as close to 0% as possible).

    I would be grateful if you could make some sort of chart/graph for different haste values and their duration so we can get a better outline with the duration and # of ticks added together.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I would be grateful if you could make some sort of chart/graph for different haste values and their duration so we can get a better outline with the duration and # of ticks added together.
    This is what I got so far (dot durations for 0-10000 haste):

    Not sure if I made some mistake though. Checked ingame, all numbers match for my current haste.
    Last edited by Ridcully; 2012-10-27 at 01:43 PM.

  10. #510
    Oh, this is pretty interesting. If I'm not misunderstanding this I think you need a bigger sample. You have to add ALL haste plateaus from 0-10000 or it will look like we might be wasting haste because when dots are faster more globals will be used to refresh them.

    Edit: You should add MG as well.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-10-27 at 02:37 PM.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Oh, this is pretty interesting. If I'm not misunderstanding this I think you need a bigger sample. You have to add ALL haste plateaus from 0-10000 or it will look like we might be wasting haste because when dots are faster more globals will be used to refresh them.

    Edit: You should add MG as well.
    This chart does contain every single point of haste from 0 to 10000. Half of megabyte of data. I was suprised that dot lenght does not jump up on every additional tick, but that's how it is.
    MG should be linear, can it recieve additional tick?

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    This chart does contain every single point of haste from 0 to 10000. Half of megabyte of data. I was suprised that dot lenght does not jump up on every additional tick, but that's how it is.
    MG should be linear, can it recieve additional tick?


    Nvm the MG, I forgot the 5th tick is that low.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-10-27 at 02:48 PM.

  13. #513
    Ingame testing shows that is not right. 4723 base + 12k worth of haste from DS, still only 4 MG ticks.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    Ingame testing shows that is not right. 4723 base + 12k worth of haste from DS, still only 4 MG ticks.
    ya i thought haste only affected MG in how fast the channel is, but always stayed at 4 ticks.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    Ingame testing shows that is not right. 4723 base + 12k worth of haste from DS, still only 4 MG ticks.
    yeah, lol, you're right. I don't use any addon to track MG ticks so I haven't thought much about it. I get 4 ticks from being naked, in 15.64% haste and when using DS. Is this something that has been changed or is that chart just unreliable? I mean I'd rather not keep using it as a reference if there's false statements with it.

  16. #516
    The haste calculations on the chart are correct, the author just isn't aware that MG doesn't add ticks. If MG would add ticks, those breakpoints would be correct.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Is this something that has been changed or is that chart just unreliable?
    No idea
    Breakpoints do not mach, but there might be some rounding involved and my chart might be wrong.
    Overall it does not seem that it is possible to benefit from extended dot durations right now. But tier or two later, G-point (HA!) on my chart might be reachable without sacrificing anything.
    Last edited by Ridcully; 2012-10-27 at 03:24 PM.

  18. #518
    Remember that many of the haste points are under DS/Bloodlust, not to mention raid haste.

    There seem to be some rounding errors in your calculations - whenever I try to replicate Keldion's Haste Spreadsheet that always trips me up. Anyways, here are your values on the left and Keldion's on the right (taken from the top row of each where there's no haste buffs etc.) But I think overall your graph doesn't line up because it's modeling no buffs. Our Haste thresholds under buffs should correspond to dot duration increases.

    1763 - Agony 13 - 1783
    5288 - Agony 14 - 5320
    8813 - Agony 15 - 8845
    2350 - Corruption 10 - 2367
    7050 - Corruption 11 - 7078
    3022 - UA 8 - 3040
    9065 - UA 9 - 9094
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2012-10-27 at 05:41 PM.

  19. #519
    What do you guys think about refreshing dots with fel flame when you get procs? Should we be sb:ss when we get our int procs or do we manually re-apply them? Like in a scenario in which my Relic of Yu'lon procs, should I manually reapply dots, then right before it expires sb:ss? And what happens if I do sb:ss right before it expires and right after it runs out my Lightweave procs.. Any help would greatly be appreciated <3

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Felscream View Post
    What do you guys think about refreshing dots with fel flame when you get procs? Should we be sb:ss when we get our int procs or do we manually re-apply them? Like in a scenario in which my Relic of Yu'lon procs, should I manually reapply dots, then right before it expires sb:ss? And what happens if I do sb:ss right before it expires and right after it runs out my Lightweave procs.. Any help would greatly be appreciated <3
    I think Fel Flame serves a purpose if you either have more than half of the duration left on UA+Corr or if you can't refresh both fast enough because of (incoming) movement which will make you to lose either of them. Remember that it doesn't refresh Agony. Most of the times I find myself refresh one dot at a time between MG's whenever I don't have Haunt on my target. Be careful with how you use SB:SS or it can become a very bad habit by using it too often.

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