1. #1921
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    It most definitely works.
    I tried using this as well last night on primordius and it didn't work. Not sure what I did wrong.

  2. #1922
    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    I tried using this as well last night on primordius and it didn't work. Not sure what I did wrong.
    It was hot fixed this week and no longer works.

  3. #1923
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    I'll post my Drain Soul >20% math here.

    Let's take a 12 second time period, 0 haste, 50 combined dot dps.
    Case 1: 12 seconds of MG. 12 * 50 base dots + 12 * 50 MG ticks = 1200 damage. 1230 with 4T15.
    Case 2. 4 seconds of DS + 8 seconds of Haunted MG (time of actually applying Haunt is left out in both examples, it's dpct is pretty close to MG dot ticks).
    4 * 50 base dots + (8 * 50 base dots + 8 * 50 MG ticks) * 1.24 = 1192 damage. 1216 with 4T15.
    1.24 istead of 1.3 because we miss 4 Corruption tick events while channeling DS, which is worth about 0,2 soulshard.

    Looks like a tiny damage loss, right? But! It is with 0 haste, any haste will make (DS channeling time)/(8 seconds Haunt uptime) ratio smaller, which favors DS. And we can DS when dots on target are weak and we have 0 or 1 shard. Spending them on Haunts when dots are strong.
    The Return of Drain Soul!

    I wondered if this would happen again at some point when they fixed it in the beta. Seems like you think it did. I'd love to see others weigh in with their thoughts and/or math, cause this could be huge in how we play.

    Not to mention it might lead to Blizz nerfing us again if it's true. >.<
    Your Soul Shall Suffer! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  4. #1924
    You could probably add a conditional line in SimC where you DS to gain shards when:
    1. You are low on shards (0 or 1)
    2. nothing is procc'd (trinkets, lightweave, jade spirit, legendary meta, etc)

    From there the default APL should take over and we can see if its an increase. I'm so not the person to be able to write that kind of APL coding though. It would definitely be an increase if you are prepping for a burn phase or situationally in some fights....eg when flying from boss platform to a nest on ji kun or something.

    Ultimately the dual filler thing is just complexity for complexity's sake. You could just have MG tick harder under 20%, grant a soulshard after 3x ticks, and grant 4x shards if something dies while channeling. Though I doubt blizz would make an adjustment like that. They would probably just throw nerfs at it and bury their heads in the sand till next expac.

  5. #1925
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    The multiple procs at the same instant in time (22:27:36.870) confirms my theory that it's rolling chance to proc for each hit simultaneously with an equal chance. Otherwise, only the first proc in the RPPM sequence would have a non-0 chance to proc; hitting many targets instantly DOES increase your RPPM because of this.

    Note: not more hits total, but more hits counted at a 0 time delta.
    While not correct resetting time_since_last_proc for each damage event seems like a waste of resources, maybe they do it every 1ms. Or since they happen at the same time they don't use a 0 value but a very low non-zero value which will increase chance to proc for example from 1 at 1.5% to 1 at 1.5% and 10 at 0.5% or similar. It fits with the increased uptimes on AoE fights.

    Read a few more posts and indeed bad streak protection could be a reason for never having 0 chance to proc on simultaneous events.
    Last edited by dakalro; 2013-04-14 at 10:38 AM.

  6. #1926
    At what point I should go for more haste as affli? I am sitting at 514ilevel, 70% mastery and 5.3k haste atm. Is reforging to haste more beneficial for dps or not? I guess I should just sim it :P

  7. #1927
    Quote Originally Posted by howaboutno View Post
    At what point I should go for more haste as affli? I am sitting at 514ilevel, 70% mastery and 5.3k haste atm. Is reforging to haste more beneficial for dps or not? I guess I should just sim it :P
    You should have already gone up to at least the 6637 breakpoint.

  8. #1928
    This whole gosup vs gosac thing is confusing as crap.


    Went the full haste build from t15+ from askmrrobot for reference. Currently 522 ilvl with breath of the hydra and wushoo's + meta of death and destruction.

    Wondering if anyone else that is geared similarlyto me is going gosup vs gosac for specific fights for affliction AND destruction....Bc so far its confusing as crap after reading 20+ pages of this thread.

    Thanks in advance, sorry for my ignorance.

  9. #1929
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    I'll post my Drain Soul >20% math here.

    Let's take a 12 second time period, 0 haste, 50 combined dot dps.
    Case 1: 12 seconds of MG. 12 * 50 base dots + 12 * 50 MG ticks = 1200 damage. 1230 with 4T15.
    Case 2. 4 seconds of DS + 8 seconds of Haunted MG (time of actually applying Haunt is left out in both examples, it's dpct is pretty close to MG dot ticks).
    4 * 50 base dots + (8 * 50 base dots + 8 * 50 MG ticks) * 1.24 = 1192 damage. 1216 with 4T15.
    1.24 istead of 1.3 because we miss 4 Corruption tick events while channeling DS, which is worth about 0,2 soulshard.

    Looks like a tiny damage loss, right? But! It is with 0 haste, any haste will make (DS channeling time)/(8 seconds Haunt uptime) ratio smaller, which favors DS. And we can DS when dots on target are weak and we have 0 or 1 shard. Spending them on Haunts when dots are strong.
    Did some calculation myself for my unbuffed dots. All dots proc once every 1.57sec. All my dots compined tick damage is 13300 agony+7600 corruption+12500 ua = 33400. MG cast time is 3.15 sec and 30500 damage. 2 ticks of DS is also 3.15 sec (coincidence?) and each tick does 11500 damage.
    So we can calculate how much is the damage difference between MG and 2ticks of DS.
    30500(MG damage)+4*33400*0.5(MG dot ticks) - 23000(2 ticks of ds) = loss of 74300 damage if we cast DS.
    So haunt has to benefit more than 74300 damage. Haunt cast time is 1.2sec, which is one and a half MG ticks. Haunt does 53000 damage. One and half mg does 30500/4*1.5 + 33400*1.5*0.5 = 36500 damage. So casting haunt is 16500 damage up instead of MG. We can reduce 16500 from 74300 and we have 57800. So now does 30% more damage in 8sec give us more than 57800 damage? We can cast 2.5 MG's in 8sec. Dots tick ~5 times in that time.
    MGs and dot ticks with 30% more damage final calculations:
    2.5*30500*0.3 + 2.5*4*33400*0.3 + 33400*5*0.3 = 123000 extra damage from haunt
    123000-57800 = 65200 more damage when using DS for shard then haunting and channeling MG duration of haunt.

    You also have to include that there is 20% chance of getting a shard when using a MG because of Nightfall. Lets say value of a shard to haunt is 123000+16500 and 20% of that is ~ 28000. Probably not very proper way to calculate this, but we can reduce it from 65200 and we have ~37000.

    PS. I noticed that MG has a tooltip error. It says 30520 damage over 3.15 sec, but its actually 4/5 of that. So this should make it even more favor for DS'ing for shards. And this is for my 527 ilvl unbuffed character, i have no idea how does it scale for lower/higher stats/spellpowers. There might be also errors in calculations.

  10. #1930
    As esatikkane points out, what you have to calculate is if 8-sec haunted MG(and dots) outweights the loss of DSing one shard.

    ***There must be something wrong with my calculations, as you'll see at the end...***

    I have a combined dot dmg of 26712 á 1,665sec, and MG ticks at a 5304. What you are choosing from are 4 ticks of MG vs 2 of DS.
    MG = 4(5304+(0,5*26712)) = 74640
    DS = 11336 * 2 = 22672.
    delta = 51968

    Ignoring the actual dmg and cast time of Haunt.

    MG ticks at 0,8325s which will allow it to tick 9 times during haunt. (8/0,8325 = 9,6 ticks)

    MG w/o haunt = 9(5304+(0,5*26712)) = 167940
    MG w haunt = 167940 * 1,3 = 218322
    delta = 50382

    So without taking into consideration the actual dots, using DS to gain one shard for haunts is only 1586 dmg behind. (seeing Haunt's DPET is higher than MG, DS would most likely already be superior).

    My dots ticks 4 times (8/1,665) during haunt.

    DoTs w/o haunt = 106848
    DoTs w haunt = 138902
    delta = 32054

    Disclaimer: As I pointed out at the beginning, these results seem, to me, to be way off. I'm posting however hoping someone would points out my eventual errors.
    //Freak
    Last edited by Staffreak; 2013-04-15 at 12:47 AM.

  11. #1931
    Quote Originally Posted by Woz View Post
    You should have already gone up to at least the 6637 breakpoint.
    I recently changed my stats in order to reach the 9778 haste breakpoint and noticed a good dps increase in all fights.

    My question is though... I just recieved H-LoTC and im wondering if i should switch one of my current trinkets with it: N-Wush and Volatile Talisma.

    Whats your opinion? (My char name is Minutëh).

  12. #1932
    Quote Originally Posted by Didrah View Post
    I recently changed my stats in order to reach the 9778 haste breakpoint and noticed a good dps increase in all fights.

    My question is though... I just recieved H-LoTC and im wondering if i should switch one of my current trinkets with it: N-Wush and Volatile Talisma.

    Whats your opinion? (My char name is Minutëh).
    the only thing that is superior about H-Lotc is its reliability. other than that, stick with any ilvl 522 trinkets you have.

  13. #1933
    I'm currently sitting at 9780 haste rating without a full haste reforging and gemming strategy. Does it make any sense to reforge into haste between 9778 and 13737 breakpoints. What dps increase can I expect with the new Meta?

  14. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolindon View Post
    I'm currently sitting at 9780 haste rating without a full haste reforging and gemming strategy. Does it make any sense to reforge into haste between 9778 and 13737 breakpoints. What dps increase can I expect with the new Meta?
    10-12k or so, depending on gear.

  15. #1935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dumble View Post
    I fall 600 haste short WITH full haste gemming (But that is a combination of 320 haste gems + 160 hit/haste gems to reach the hitcap, not purely 320 gems everywhere).

    Even so I doubt it is worth going Affli at this stage, I only have normal Cha-Ye and Shado-Pan VP trinket, like ~27.6k SP unbuffed but 11k mastery And I havent even completed the 6k Test of Valor legendary part yet, so the Legendary meta gem is still a few months away... sad days. On the sims anyway single target wise Affli is coming about ~15-20k behind Destro currently for me
    I'm at 515 iLvl and in the same boat. I get shit from my guild on Lei Shen because I'm not Affliction, but don't have the haste rating to support it just yet. Sadly, Aff lags behind Destro by 15K DPS in my gear. I think only the ranged officer in my guild is educated on this. Barely.

  16. #1936
    it isnt that bad for me in ilvl 516 but then again, im heavily mastery geared and there is only around 8-9k difference for me.

  17. #1937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leyl View Post
    I'm at 515 iLvl and in the same boat. I get shit from my guild on Lei Shen because I'm not Affliction, but don't have the haste rating to support it just yet. Sadly, Aff lags behind Destro by 15K DPS in my gear. I think only the ranged officer in my guild is educated on this. Barely.
    why would they want you affliction for lei shen? both destro and demo are far superior on that fight =/

  18. #1938
    ^ Destro and Demo make quick work of the ball lightning adds

  19. #1939
    Quote Originally Posted by Leyl View Post
    I'm at 515 iLvl and in the same boat. I get shit from my guild on Lei Shen because I'm not Affliction, but don't have the haste rating to support it just yet. Sadly, Aff lags behind Destro by 15K DPS in my gear. I think only the ranged officer in my guild is educated on this. Barely.
    Why do you get shit from your guild because you are not Affliction on Lei Shen? Makes no sense since its the worst spec on that fight.

  20. #1940
    I play destro + demo and I do very well, but I'm planning on switching to Aff at 530 ilvl after Heroics are more "farmy".

    With the new 30% haste meta, what new breakpoints are there for being at the 3 main haste breakpoints (4717, 6637, 9778 or that one in the 14k's)? What I mean is, if I'm sitting at 9778 EXACTLY, are there any haste breakpoints in the near vicinity when my 30% haste procs? If there is a breakpoint at a small amount of haste rating above what I'm currently at with the 30% proc, then I'd like to reforge for it. I feel like it would have to be a very small value in order to be justified, but still something to look at. Additionally, even though the uptime is high, it's possible that this idea would only be useful for Agony. Thoughts?

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