[5.4] Affliction Warlock and Encounter Specific Guides

[Crisius]

It really doesn't matter much. Play right and you'll get good results.

[Woz]

How should I be gearing with regards to haste and mastery? I have done multiple sims (simcraft multi target for affliction is wrong) looking at various fight lengths and bosses getting inconclusive results. What do the stat priorities look like for Protectors vs Jugg vs Nazgrim/Sha 3-4 min length fights without berserking?

Maybe to expand on Derpsmash since it wasn't that constructive...Just hit a breakpoint (13737 or 18207) and stack Mastery afterwards. You might get very slightly better results going lower breakpoint with higher Mastery but at this point in gear you'll probably naturally be able to hit 18207 without going out of your way with gems to hit it.

[Valq]

How should I be gearing with regards to haste and mastery? I have done multiple sims (simcraft multi target for affliction is wrong) looking at various fight lengths and bosses getting inconclusive results. What do the stat priorities look like for Protectors vs Jugg vs Nazgrim/Sha 3-4 min length fights without berserking?

Mastery is the stat to stack, drop the tier legs for IJ haste/mastery legs, tier shoulders for Noru/protectors shoulders, and tier head for the garrosh head (more mastery). You'll have more than enough haste on your gear anyway.

[Bonkura]

Mastery is the stat to stack, drop the tier legs for IJ haste/mastery legs, tier shoulders for Noru/protectors shoulders, and tier head for the garrosh head (more mastery). You'll have more than enough haste on your gear anyway.

Wrong. Mastery AND haste are the stats to stack. Their values are very similar. You avoid crit by all means.

Now what he really asked is something I've waited an entire expansion for someone to answer.

What we know for sure is that we don't sacrifice haste to get more mastery if it means we get more crit instead of the haste we could've gotten.

In other words. BiS for Affliction consists of Garrosh head WF, Protectors shoulders WF, Tier chest, Tier gloves & IJ Legs WF. Just to make that clear.

[Valq]

Wrong. Mastery AND haste are the stats to stack. Their values are very similar. You avoid crit by all means.

Now what he really asked is something I've waited an entire expansion for someone to answer.

What we know for sure is that we don't sacrifice haste to get more mastery if it means we get more crit instead of the haste we could've gotten.

In other words. BiS for Affliction consists of Garrosh head WF, Protectors shoulders WF, Tier chest, Tier gloves & IJ Legs WF. Just to make that clear.

Simply saying "wrong" isn't the way to approach things. You're posting something very opinionated that many people disagree with, haste should be secondary to mastery, haste scales very linearly compared to mastery. While prioritizing mastery you still gain enough haste, it should not be held in the same regard as mastery.

[Deleted]

Haste scales exponentially though doesn't it, because all the haste procs we get are multiplicative, rather than additive.

Check out some of the Arcane theorycraft that's going on over at altered-time. Until recently it was all about stacking Mastery and using Mage Armour 90% of the time. They're currently testing a more haste centric build (up until the 50% GCD cap) with Frost Armour on all fights, and the results have been positive on pretty much all accounts.

It's interesting, and whilst not exactly the same situation, I don't think you can really go wrong with Affliction as long as you don't prioritise Crit.

[Valq]

I would agree that you can't really go wrong with affliction, whether its going haste or mastery, just in my experience, and a lot of other warlocks I know, prioritizing mastery, then having haste secondary to it has been more successful.

[Deleted]

I would agree that you can't really go wrong with affliction, whether its going haste or mastery, just in my experience, and a lot of other warlocks I know, prioritizing mastery, then having haste secondary to it has been more successful.

I don't disagree with you, just playing Devil's Advocate here because I'm bored, and haven't experimented much with Affliction this tier except for the last few weeks.

Have you ever tried going Haste > Mastery, or perhaps balancing the two? Or is this based on just doing what everyone else is doing. Those other Warlocks, did they ever truly test Haste > Mastery, or are they sticking with it because it's what everyone is doing? I was running 22k haste Demonology for a weeks way back in April, but did a flex run for fun with another Warlock and I just switched to Affliction for fun. We were even on pretty much every fight, with me coming out on top on the single target encounters.

The reason I ask is again linked to the above mention of new Arcane testing. They mathed out, then tested in raids, some new stuff that wasn't ever even considered as being viable, and it proved to work better in most cases.

Is Mastery proven to be more successful, or is it just a case of people sticking to it because it's the norm?

[Woz]

Is Mastery proven to be more successful, or is it just a case of people sticking to it because it's the norm?

I think it is more of a norm thing than anything. Having run at the 22k haste Demo with Aff offspec it does perform as well (sometimes better) than a more "normal" haste setup for Aff. Realistically the most noticeable difference is that at extreme levels of haste you swim in shards vs being kind of in the middle ground of shards.

As the case has been in every tier this expansion on single target haste will beat out mastery, but once you start adding targets mastery will take over.

[Valq]

I have tried a haste heavy build myself, found it to be more successful on some fights, but generally, a mastery heavy build pulled largely ahead on any fight you could soulswap on (pretty much every boss with the exception of IJ).

[FurtyIRL]

I have tried a haste heavy build myself, found it to be more successful on some fights, but generally, a mastery heavy build pulled largely ahead on any fight you could soulswap on (pretty much every boss with the exception of IJ).

Which fights was it more successful on? Personally I can't think of any fight where a high haste build would be more efficient, including Iron Juggernaut. You're absolutely correct that mastery gains value the less you are channeling though; even we assumed Haste had an equal value to Mastery on a single target there's still zero point to itemizing heavily towards haste at the cost of mastery purely for that reason.

[xuros]

When I check out Ask Mr Robot it has a Haste>mastery>crit build for PVE. Didnt see a Mastery>haste one. was kinda leery of dropping the 23% haste the reforge had me doing. Anyone else go this route for affliction?

[Bonkura]

Simply saying "wrong" isn't the way to approach things. You're posting something very opinionated that many people disagree with, haste should be secondary to mastery, haste scales very linearly compared to mastery. While prioritizing mastery you still gain enough haste, it should not be held in the same regard as mastery.

People have assumed mastery is better all expansion while for some reason sticking to some haste breakpoint that the community has agreed on is currently the best to grab. At the start of the expansion it was pointed out that the two stats scale linearly and they've been following eachother ever since. I'm still waiting for someone to actually prove that mastery is better and in what situations.

My point is still standing. You shouldn't sacrifice haste for crit in order to gain more mastery.



PS. Thok chest and tier head got similar value as Garrosh head + tier chest. I missed that in my earlier post. (I used to think Protectors chest is BiS but it has a much lower stat budget than the Thok chest)

When I check out Ask Mr Robot it has a Haste>mastery>crit build for PVE. Didnt see a Mastery>haste one. was kinda leery of dropping the 23% haste the reforge had me doing. Anyone else go this route for affliction?

That's probably because SimCraft says haste is superior on single target.

[Valq]

At the start of the expansion

At the start of the expansion soulswap did not work the way it does now, hence the argument doesn't really have any ground.

[Bonkura]

At the start of the expansion soulswap did not work the way it does now, hence the argument doesn't really have any ground.

And they changed Malefic Grasp yet SimCraft shows haste is superior single target. Haste scaling for dots and multidotting as a whole is greatly underratetd by people like you. As I said I'm still waiting for someone to prove mastery's superiority.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

So how important is an haste breakpoint? And do the haste need to be exactly the same value as the haste breakpoint or can it be one or more points over it?

[FurtyIRL]

And they changed Malefic Grasp yet SimCraft shows haste is superior single target. Haste scaling for dots and multidotting as a whole is greatly underratetd by people like you. As I said I'm still waiting for someone to prove mastery's superiority.

SimCraft overvalues haste for every spec of almost every class, is this news to you?

That said, haste is a very strong stat and for pure single target almost as good as mastery point for point. With the amount of haste gained from temporary procs such as meta, berserking, lifeblood, bloodlust, and kafa press, the value of haste is very slightly diminished vs. mastery since stacking it at that point is just a drop in the bucket during the opener (which is a big part of our damage). What I said on the previous page holds true, however: even if haste and mastery had exactly equivalent single target coefficients, why not stack mastery? (with regards to Siege in particular)

[Bonkura]

Wait, I just said that we should stack both haste and mastery. I'm not arguing for haste being better (rather it being underrated). The point I was trying to make was that noone should go mastery>all when our secondary stats go like mastery>haste>>>crit. So for example if you have an item with 1800 mastery and 1200 crit then there's an item with 1700 haste and 1300 mastery then the second item is better. The heavy mastery gearing is a destruction thing where haste and crit have a similar value.

I'm just a bit annoyed at all people that are insisting on mastery being superior in all situations (in terms of gearing) when it's not completely accurate, that is all.

[Deleted]

I'm just a bit annoyed at all people that are insisting on mastery being superior in all situations (in terms of gearing) when it's not completely accurate, that is all.

Most people keep only 1 set to play both affliction and destro, at least I know I do, so it's logical to maximize your gear towards mastery, no?

[FurtyIRL]

Most people keep only 1 set to play both affliction and destro, at least I know I do, so it's logical to maximize your gear towards mastery, no?

Playing sub-optimally is not a valid counterpoint