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  1. #201
    The Lightbringer nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    Pet utility is COMPLETELY invalid because you get the pet's special ability when you sacrifice them through the Command Demon ability. In my opinion, I like killing the puppy because now I can easily hotkey the felpup's silence and I don't have to worry about keeping the pet close to an off target to be CC'd for fear of being out of range.
    1) Pet utility is more PvP than PvE. For instance, you can use pet abilities even while you are CC'ed or casting.
    2) If you are CC'ed, pets can still do damage while you cannot. Notice how GoSac does not buff DoTs, but only direct channels that require you to be active?
    3) From a PvE point of view, same goes for movement. None of the abilities buffed by GoSac can be used while moving. Hint: while there is no movement in DS there is a LOT of movement in MOP. This means the more movement, the better a pet (which incurs no movement penalty) is. (Note: how many times have you heard a vengeance tank topping meters cry about not balancing around "old content?")
    4) GoSac does not buff AoE whatsoever, so actually having a pet means better AoE than not having one (assuming you have a single target pillar).
    5) GoSac doesn't even affect two-target damage, so the less time you are actually casting your single-target channels, the better pets are.

    In this sense, for patchwerk, Grimoire of Sacrifice actually should be top DPS. Because in every other scenario whatsoever, it's not. And I'm actually concerned the spec itself will be bad if people are overeager when it comes to nerfing it simply because it performs well under the most ideal conditions, of which there are none in MOP.

  2. #202
    I was wondering something about the Equipment list for the "first week" of MoP.

    Spelltwister's Gloves - Golden Lotus, Honored (Tailoring Recipe)
    Spelltwister's Grand Robe - Golden Lotus, Honored (Tailoring Recipe)

    Will we be able to reach Honoured reputation with the Golden Lotus in the first week? anyone that knows how much rep we can get per day if we do all of the available rep quests for "The Golden Lotus" ?

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Miothan View Post
    I was wondering something about the Equipment list for the "first week" of MoP.

    Spelltwister's Gloves - Golden Lotus, Honored (Tailoring Recipe)
    Spelltwister's Grand Robe - Golden Lotus, Honored (Tailoring Recipe)

    Will we be able to reach Honoured reputation with the Golden Lotus in the first week? anyone that knows how much rep we can get per day if we do all of the available rep quests for "The Golden Lotus" ?
    I've *heard* that it takes 1 week of Golden Lotus to be able to get to Shado-pan and August Celestials, so that would mean 1 week to get to Revered. I think the problem sits more in the 10 Imperial Silk you need to make the items. If you do the cooldown from the first day onwards, that would only get you to 7 in the first week. So you are then forced to use the ability that uses both cloth and Spirit of Harmony. At 3 a piece that would mean at least 9 Spirit of Harmony you need to gather to make the stuff. That grind will come on top of the Heroics you need to run.

    All of this assuming you indeed want it all in the first week. If not, then it doesn't matter anyway, you'll have time enough to make the Imperial Silk IF you train your Tailoring fast enough.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I've *heard* that it takes 1 week of Golden Lotus to be able to get to Shado-pan and August Celestials, so that would mean 1 week to get to Revered. I think the problem sits more in the 10 Imperial Silk you need to make the items. If you do the cooldown from the first day onwards, that would only get you to 7 in the first week. So you are then forced to use the ability that uses both cloth and Spirit of Harmony. At 3 a piece that would mean at least 9 Spirit of Harmony you need to gather to make the stuff. That grind will come on top of the Heroics you need to run.

    All of this assuming you indeed want it all in the first week. If not, then it doesn't matter anyway, you'll have time enough to make the Imperial Silk IF you train your Tailoring fast enough.
    Ok, thanks for the fast reply, i do plan on farming the Spirit of Harmony, just like i farmed for the shadow set in TBC (remember it was better than the first tier for warlocks, which was kinda lol, but i farmed it since it was better). But i do not however, know how rare the motes are gona be O_o, i hope it wont be some 1% drop chance, which in that case will drag out the required farm.

    Will start to farm it tho after i hit Honoured

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Miothan View Post
    Ok, thanks for the fast reply, i do plan on farming the Spirit of Harmony, just like i farmed for the shadow set in TBC (remember it was better than the first tier for warlocks, which was kinda lol, but i farmed it since it was better). But i do not however, know how rare the motes are gona be O_o, i hope it wont be some 1% drop chance, which in that case will drag out the required farm.

    Will start to farm it tho after i hit Honoured
    Just read in a different thread that a guy got some 200-300 motes over leveling 2 characters to 90 on beta, so you should get some 10-15 Spirit of Harmony while leveling alone, which would be good for some 3-5 Imperial Silk, IF you farm the cloth needed.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Just read in a different thread that a guy got some 200-300 motes over leveling 2 characters to 90 on beta, so you should get some 10-15 Spirit of Harmony while leveling alone, which would be good for some 3-5 Imperial Silk, IF you farm the cloth needed.
    I can validate this. Let me put it this way, I didn't plan to level any professions in beta so I was literally deleting the them from 85-89. Then I decided, meh, may as well see what's up with tailoring at least. In 1 level I easily had some 50-75.

  7. #207
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'm going to point you over to SimulationCraft where someone has analyzed the pets/grimoires for 85.

    Grimoire/Pets Comparison for Single Target Fights:

    Affliction

    Demonology

    Destruction


    I don't really get your post though... You're asking about the DPS difference between the best option, Grimoire of Sacrifice compared to sub-optimal alternatives, but you don't care?
    I'm just pointing out that in 10 mans probably raid will need interrupts, or smth that takes off debuffs from group, in that case dps does't matter in general.
    If you're raiding 25, that's not a problem though.
    Well, your argument is worth it (*sigh* just only started to like to look of new pets).

    P.S.: About SoHs, do we need to farm up Tillers reps for benefits of our professions or that's optional?
    Last edited by Bloodfire; 2012-09-20 at 10:10 AM.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    In this sense, for patchwerk, Grimoire of Sacrifice actually should be top DPS. Because in every other scenario whatsoever, it's not. And I'm actually concerned the spec itself will be bad if people are overeager when it comes to nerfing it simply because it performs well under the most ideal conditions, of which there are none in MOP.
    Until you consider pet AI when it comes to target switching, and without gap closers on any pet other than the Felguard - who's Pursuit on autocast has a habbit of causing the thing to randomly break off the target to attack other things just to slowly run back again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    I'm just pointing out that in 10 mans probably raid will need interrupts, or smth that takes off debuffs from group, in that case dps does't matter in general.
    If you're raiding 25, that's not a problem though.
    Well, your argument is worth it (*sigh* just only started to like to look of new pets).

    P.S.: About SoHs, do we need to farm up Tillers reps for benefits of our professions or that's optional?
    Even on 10s, the 24s cooldown for our, and Mage's interrupt is next to useless without what I'd consider unreasonable amount of co-ordination relative to leaving Melee to just get on with it (on top of issues with our own pet handling/AI). Easier to just bring an alt or someone else altogether, that's the sad truth of it.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    P.S.: About SoHs, do we need to farm up Tillers reps for benefits of our professions or that's optional?
    It's optional, but beneficial. You can plant several plants on your plot of land that give SoH, or Enchanting mats or cloth etc. etc. But this takes a bit of time to get to the level needed to buy the seeds for these plants. You need Revered rep with Tillers to buy the seeds for SoH and gain 1 mote of Harmony per plant per day, with a maximum of a 16 plant farm at Exalted rep with Tillers.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    I'm just pointing out that in 10 mans probably raid will need interrupts, or smth that takes off debuffs from group, in that case dps does't matter in general.
    If you're raiding 25, that's not a problem though.
    Well, your argument is worth it (*sigh* just only started to like to look of new pets).

    P.S.: About SoHs, do we need to farm up Tillers reps for benefits of our professions or that's optional?
    And again you aren't understanding completely how GoSac even works... As I've already stated, you get the pet's special ability when you sac it. If you sac walker you get Bulwark, if you sac pup you get interrupt, if you sac imp you get singe magic, etc. So please re-read my other post, or read the in-game tooltip on GoSac.

  11. #211
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    And again you aren't understanding completely how GoSac even works... As I've already stated, you get the pet's special ability when you sac it. If you sac walker you get Bulwark, if you sac pup you get interrupt, if you sac imp you get singe magic, etc. So please re-read my other post, or read the in-game tooltip on GoSac.
    So...
    This is how it works.
    Question: Does this buff persists through death or u'll have to summon and resacrifice pet when raid wipes?

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    So...
    This is how it works.
    Question: Does this buff persists through death or u'll have to summon and resacrifice pet when raid wipes?
    Lasts through zoning and logging out, but NOT through death.

  13. #213
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Lasts through zoning and logging out, but NOT through death.
    Thx for info.
    Other questions will be asked i guess after September 25th :P

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    1) Pet utility is more PvP than PvE. For instance, you can use pet abilities even while you are CC'ed or casting.
    2) If you are CC'ed, pets can still do damage while you cannot. Notice how GoSac does not buff DoTs, but only direct channels that require you to be active?
    3) From a PvE point of view, same goes for movement. None of the abilities buffed by GoSac can be used while moving. Hint: while there is no movement in DS there is a LOT of movement in MOP. This means the more movement, the better a pet (which incurs no movement penalty) is. (Note: how many times have you heard a vengeance tank topping meters cry about not balancing around "old content?")
    4) GoSac does not buff AoE whatsoever, so actually having a pet means better AoE than not having one (assuming you have a single target pillar).
    5) GoSac doesn't even affect two-target damage, so the less time you are actually casting your single-target channels, the better pets are.

    In this sense, for patchwerk, Grimoire of Sacrifice actually should be top DPS. Because in every other scenario whatsoever, it's not. And I'm actually concerned the spec itself will be bad if people are overeager when it comes to nerfing it simply because it performs well under the most ideal conditions, of which there are none in MOP.
    So much truth in this post !
    Maybe the OP should explain that point in his post, would be a shame if that analysis disappears...

  15. #215
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    1 tier talent Harvest Life is really so way below then the two others? I mean, there ll be a lot of fights when we need to AoE more then 2 targets, and why not?

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    1 tier talent Harvest Life is really so way below then the two others? I mean, there ll be a lot of fights when we need to AoE more then 2 targets, and why not?
    The only kind of AoE that it would be useful on is for adds that have so little HP you can't get 3-4 SoCs to burst at once. The only fight that comes to mind is Elegon during transition when the little crap adds spawn, and that's only because of the nature of those adds to spread out, effectively nullifying the multiple seed combustion. The damage it does is nice, but SoC is just that much better that you can take other talents in tier 1 that are made more useful as HL isn't really used for max AoE dps.

  17. #217
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    The only kind of AoE that it would be useful on is for adds that have so little HP you can't get 3-4 SoCs to burst at once. The only fight that comes to mind is Elegon during transition when the little crap adds spawn, and that's only because of the nature of those adds to spread out, effectively nullifying the multiple seed combustion. The damage it does is nice, but SoC is just that much better that you can take other talents in tier 1 that are made more useful as HL isn't really used for max AoE dps.
    K thx, will take a notice.

  18. #218
    Mechagnome Lufi's Avatar
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    In order to maximize haunt, will it make it a priority to channel MG as more as we can in the duration? or it is good to just haunt one off target and leave it?

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Lufi View Post
    In order to maximize haunt, will it make it a priority to channel MG as more as we can in the duration? or it is good to just haunt one off target and leave it?
    We have a total package deal, we need dots + MG to do decent damage, just dots + haunt is not going to do very much, compared to channeling MG on a target with dots up and getting ghost dot ticks.

    Depending on how long the off target is going to live you'll have different options, but the best thing for Haunt time is to have MG up as much as you can. So if target is not going to live long just Soul Swap dots on the target and leave it, you'll do more damage by keeping your normal rotation on the main target. If the target IS going to live longer then it's a question of multi dotting both mobs and then use Haunt+MG on one of the targets. If the off target needs to die a.s.a.p. then why are you not target switching to it completely?!

  20. #220
    Is there a way to make it so if I use my SB:SS macro and my dots aren't placed on the target for some reason, usually they're just out of range, that I can press it again without using Soulburn again?

    #Showtooltip Soul Swap
    /Cast Soulburn
    /Cast Soul Swap
    Armory
    You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
    You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
    You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
    You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

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