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  1. #181
    Grunt Staticraver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alone0129 View Post
    It seems they have fixed Glyph of Soul Swap so Soulburning doesnt put it on cooldown anymore.
    Ye they have, but there is still an issue with it. If you ss before you sb:ss you are locked out of sb:ss. Dunno if this was intended.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Staticraver View Post
    Ye they have, but there is still an issue with it. If you ss before you sb:ss you are locked out of sb:ss. Dunno if this was intended.
    If you have the Glyph then yes it is. Because if you use SS before Soulburning it puts the cooldown on it. That's what the glyph is intended to do for the trade off of your dots staying on the current target.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Alone0129 View Post
    If you have the Glyph then yes it is. Because if you use SS before Soulburning it puts the cooldown on it. That's what the glyph is intended to do for the trade off of your dots staying on the current target.
    Incorrect. This was, as explained in great detail in former discussions on this thread, a bug. It has now been fixed, and even with the glyph active you should be able to cast as many SB:SS you want in a row (taking into account available shards).

    As to the original post, I'm not sure if you are still having a problem but you should be able to chain cast 4 SB:SS on 4 mobs with 4 shards up with no delay whatsoever.

  4. #184
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    Incorrect. This was, as explained in great detail in former discussions on this thread, a bug. It has now been fixed, and even with the glyph active you should be able to cast as many SB:SS you want in a row (taking into account available shards).
    The post was saying that after putting your soul swap on cooldown via a regular glyphed (non-soulburn) soul swap, you would then not be able to soulburn a soul swap while said cooldown was still up, which is correct.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    The post was saying that after putting your soul swap on cooldown via a regular glyphed (non-soulburn) soul swap, you would then not be able to soulburn a soul swap while said cooldown was still up, which is correct.
    Ah, my mistake then. I just misread . I got caught up on him using the word "issue" which I don't think is really true. I would imagine it is supposed to work the way it currently is.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    Ah, my mistake then. I just misread . I got caught up on him using the word "issue" which I don't think is really true. I would imagine it is supposed to work the way it currently is.
    Yes, it is supposed to work how it is currently. If you have the Glyph and you use SS normally then yes it will go on cooldown making it so you cannot use SB:SS for the 30 second cooldown time. The person I quoted and gave my response I believe is just misunderstanding how the glyph is supposed to act.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Alone0129 View Post
    Yes, it is supposed to work how it is currently. If you have the Glyph and you use SS normally then yes it will go on cooldown making it so you cannot use SB:SS for the 30 second cooldown time. The person I quoted and gave my response I believe is just misunderstanding how the glyph is supposed to act.
    No, just misundestood your post

  8. #188
    To be honest I have a mind to just make a macro to SB:SS and use that on every occasion I'd normally SS. Yes it will eat into my resources somewhat, but that way I'm guaranteed to always have it available. It would also free up a glyph slot which I could then use for some nice utility, like Soulstone glyph. Shame it's hard to quantify how much DPS I'm potentially giving up with such a way of playing. I doubt it's worrysome though, if I still use SS glyph on occasions where it would really shine (Will of the Emperor comes to mind)
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  9. #189
    I don't think the SS glyph will shine in any particular fight - I think you're underestimating the amount of Drain Soul/4 Shards-ing on Will of the Emperor. On most every fight in DS the SS glyph is a waste of a slot (since now we have the option of SB:SS), and it looks to be the same for MV (maybe a tiny DPS increase for Stone Guard, and maybe a slight tiny bit for Elegon).

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    To be honest I have a mind to just make a macro to SB:SS and use that on every occasion I'd normally SS. Yes it will eat into my resources somewhat, but that way I'm guaranteed to always have it available. It would also free up a glyph slot which I could then use for some nice utility, like Soulstone glyph. Shame it's hard to quantify how much DPS I'm potentially giving up with such a way of playing. I doubt it's worrysome though, if I still use SS glyph on occasions where it would really shine (Will of the Emperor comes to mind)
    The biggest thing you have to consider is that you retain full 10 stacks of Agony on your off-target soul-swapping to it. Whereas, by using SB:SS you lose that 10x multiplier which REALLY effects the damage done by Agony. Without you actively using MG on said off-target and a 1 stack of Agony it takes a LONG time for it to actually reach 10 stacks. I really think for fights like Elegon/Will where that add you're swapping to will die before Agony reaches 10 stacks you would want to hold the glyph. All circumstantial and player-decided though, most definitely. This is what fits MY play style so it will be what I'm doing; however, someone who plays off-target fights differently will maybe want to use another glyph.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    The biggest thing you have to consider is that you retain full 10 stacks of Agony on your off-target soul-swapping to it. Whereas, by using SB:SS you lose that 10x multiplier which REALLY effects the damage done by Agony. Without you actively using MG on said off-target and a 1 stack of Agony it takes a LONG time for it to actually reach 10 stacks. I really think for fights like Elegon/Will where that add you're swapping to will die before Agony reaches 10 stacks you would want to hold the glyph. All circumstantial and player-decided though, most definitely. This is what fits MY play style so it will be what I'm doing; however, someone who plays off-target fights differently will maybe want to use another glyph.
    Yeah the Agony 10 stack is a biggy on fights like Will where you have several long living mobs that you have to take out. My guess is that even just swapping between the 2 main mobs will make it worth it to use the glyph, not even counting all the smaller adds.
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  12. #192
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Tbh I don't find Grimoire of Sacrifice useful, I'm just old style player, warlock without a pet is like shammy without BL/Heroism.
    How much is the difference between it and Grimoire of Supremacy.
    And furthermore, which pet is better if I use the Grimoire of Supremacy?

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    Tbh I don't find Grimoire of Sacrifice useful, I'm just old style player, warlock without a pet is like shammy without BL/Heroism.
    How much is the difference between it and Grimoire of Supremacy.
    And furthermore, which pet is better if I use the Grimoire of Supremacy?
    The difference is major enough that the other Sacs shouldn't even be considered. Old-style player or not you have to adapt with your class. If you don't then your DPS will suffer, plain and simple. And that really isn't being considerate of your raid.

    EDIT:: @ xskarma
    Yeah, tbh, I found that just maintaining the dots with normal SS/hardcast refreshes and keeping Cor up on the little guys was awesome. Doing so allowed me to maintain Haunt on the two main targets probably about 85-90% of the time with all the Shadow Trance procs. This alone, to me, is probably going to be the highest DPS rotation for warlocks in this fight. Adding the debuff to the longer living mobs and just nuking them is something warlocks have really always been good at. Yes, we did get great burst in MoP, but honestly aff'locks will always be the long-term killers. It's what the spec is designed to do, drain and pain.
    Last edited by Tresdallah; 2012-09-18 at 01:20 PM.

  14. #194
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tresdallah View Post
    The difference is major enough that the other Sacs shouldn't even be considered. Old-style player or not you have to adapt with your class. If you don't then your DPS will suffer, plain and simple. And that really isn't being considerate of your raid.

    EDIT:: @ xskarma
    Yeah, tbh, I found that just maintaining the dots with normal SS/hardcast refreshes and keeping Cor up on the little guys was awesome. Doing so allowed me to maintain Haunt on the two main targets probably about 85-90% of the time with all the Shadow Trance procs. This alone, to me, is probably going to be the highest DPS rotation for warlocks in this fight. Adding the debuff to the longer living mobs and just nuking them is something warlocks have really always been good at. Yes, we did get great burst in MoP, but honestly aff'locks will always be the long-term killers. It's what the spec is designed to do, drain and pain.
    By saying this u mean that everyone should have the same talents for ZOMG OVER100500 DPS? That's really dumb.
    If we're left without any choice what's the point?

    P.S.: Can smb tell me how much difference is?

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    By saying this u mean that everyone should have the same talents for ZOMG OVER100500 DPS? That's really dumb.
    If we're left without any choice what's the point?

    P.S.: Can smb tell me how much difference is?
    That's not at all what I said. Just about every other talent tier is left completely up to the personal play-style of the warlock. The only one that is a direct DPS changer is the Sacs, and should therefore be treated with the old ideology. Like in t11, when EVERY warlock had to have soul fire. Before that did affliction EVER use soul fire? No, but we did because it was necessary. End of discussion.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    By saying this u mean that everyone should have the same talents for ZOMG OVER100500 DPS? That's really dumb.
    If we're left without any choice what's the point?

    P.S.: Can smb tell me how much difference is?
    I'm going to point you over to SimulationCraft where someone has analyzed the pets/grimoires for 85.

    Grimoire/Pets Comparison for Single Target Fights:

    Affliction

    Demonology

    Destruction


    I don't really get your post though... You're asking about the DPS difference between the best option, Grimoire of Sacrifice compared to sub-optimal alternatives, but you don't care?

  17. #197
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    If we're left without any choice what's the point?
    No matter what with the Grimoires there won't be a choice... there will always be a mathematically higher number. Part of it, honestly, is because of the way sims work. Sacrifice sims very high on Patchwerk because it has to be balanced against having a pet, which equals more utility.

    And moreover, having a pet means less movement penalty and less penalty for being CC'ed.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    No matter what with the Grimoires there won't be a choice... there will always be a mathematically higher number. Part of it, honestly, is because of the way sims work. Sacrifice sims very high on Patchwerk because it has to be balanced against having a pet, which equals more utility.

    And moreover, having a pet means less movement penalty and less penalty for being CC'ed.
    Pet utility is a very dubious argument, for one thing a Warlock's pet is the last place you look for that utility as a raid leader because other classes can offer that same, or more usually better equivalent utility without worrying about any kind of DPS penalty or other pet control issues.

    Secondly, Sacrifice is a very long way ahead for Affliction compared to where it sits for Demo/Destro. There will always be an optimum, but at present the spread is far too significant for my liking.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Pet utility is a very dubious argument, for one thing a Warlock's pet is the last place you look for that utility as a raid leader because other classes can offer that same, or more usually better equivalent utility without worrying about any kind of DPS penalty or other pet control issues.

    Secondly, Sacrifice is a very long way ahead for Affliction compared to where it sits for Demo/Destro. There will always be an optimum, but at present the spread is far too significant for my liking.
    Well, personally I like the fact Sacrifice does well, but the difference is indeed to big. There is simply no other alternative unless you take a significant DPS hit. What concerns me more is that we are good at the very start of the expansion it looks like, so we'll probably be the first to get nerfed as well, hopefully along with all the mage specs.
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  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Pet utility is a very dubious argument, for one thing a Warlock's pet is the last place you look for that utility as a raid leader because other classes can offer that same, or more usually better equivalent utility without worrying about any kind of DPS penalty or other pet control issues.

    Secondly, Sacrifice is a very long way ahead for Affliction compared to where it sits for Demo/Destro. There will always be an optimum, but at present the spread is far too significant for my liking.
    Pet utility is COMPLETELY invalid because you get the pet's special ability when you sacrifice them through the Command Demon ability. In my opinion, I like killing the puppy because now I can easily hotkey the felpup's silence and I don't have to worry about keeping the pet close to an off target to be CC'd for fear of being out of range.

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