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  1. #261
    Sorry for my english too! But I will try! XD

    Last week, I changed my Affliction spec to Destruction and in the beginning, I had the same problem with my DPS... Waiting burning ember stacks (~3,8) to use DS.

    So, I did some changes and while my DS is down, I use 1xCB (during some proc) always when I have 2 embers. When my DS is missing a few seconds to be ready (+/-40sec), I try to get at least 3 embers and use all during DS buff. I dont know if what Im doing is the better way to manage my embers, but doing this my DPS increased. But Im new with this spec. Let´s wait a expert Destro lock opinion! =)

    Thanks!

  2. #262
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    Got the same expectation here, as zûmzum is the #1 in raidbots for half the fights of mop raids, he is kind of a mentor
    (et je l'ai ennuyé)

    No idea the questions you mention, whihc are interesting thoughts, what i read and understood to optimise dps as destro :

    - get a wand (as the bug is not fixed) and be orc, you gain 1+% of a secondary stats
    - which level of haste do you need minimally (i find your 2.6% too low imho) ?
    - optimise and tracks procs. procs procs procs : don't throw SB as soon as the execute is up, try to stick with a proc if possible (if the remaining life of the target is large enough)
    - throw the CB when you have procs UP, except if you're going oom or if a phase with no dps (immune, movement etc), if your @4 embers
    - cast a RoF if 2+ targets (beware of mana problems)
    - use and abuse of havoc , still wondering if you need to maintain 100% uptime of havoc when possible, and don't consider the 3.5 ember rule to wait be4 throwing a CB ?
    - try to line up DS with other cooldown, i analysed zumzum profile, my conclusion is that he took the shadopan trinket (on use proc, 1mn CD), and yu'lon even if he has accessed to other heroic trinkets, so you can everytime line up DS + shadopan trinket proc, combined with yu'lon one, probably the best combo
    - don't be tailor , my assumption is that tailoring gives a nice enchant wich is a proc, trying to line up 4 or 5 Procs (ex. Yu lon + windsong or jade + embrodory + DS + another trinket not on use) is impossible, so being another profession is better, flat int jewel for example

    Edit : just saw he changed its trinket to the "globule resin" one, no idea if my theory is still valid :/
    Last edited by sster; 2012-11-04 at 12:07 PM.

  3. #263
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    My biggest problem is to know when use my embers, when use CB ? I've read a lot of things here so, I'm not sure 'bout the good thing to do with my embers.
    Dark Soul increase the damage of CB, so I suppose we need to cast CB combined with Ds if it's possible. I suppose too that's better to manage my embers to get 4 (with glyph) and spell all of them at the same moment during Ds buff.
    But many many times I have my 4 embers but I'm waiting my Ds cooldown. I know that's a bad thing (really bad) but I always hesitate to cast Cb before Ds is up. And in this case, just one Cb or the fours ?
    So, I did some changes and while my DS is down, I use 1xCB (during some proc) always when I have 2 embers. When my DS is missing a few seconds to be ready (+/-40sec), I try to get at least 3 embers and use all during DS buff. I dont know if what Im doing is the better way to manage my embers, but doing this my DPS increased. But Im new with this spec. Let´s wait a expert Destro lock opinion! =)
    The thing is that you have DS every 2min, and you generate one ember every... 15 sec ? (made-up number). So you HAVE to use embers without this buffs when you have other buffs like DMC card proc, Jade Spirit... The key to maximizing the spec's output is to manage your embers and use them when they will do the most damage, without capping or going OOM.

    Another problem with my embers is when the boss is in execute phase (below 20% life). My embers are used faster than I can recreate it (shadowburn debuff during some few seconds).
    In fact, after use my 4 embers on Sb, I can use 2 or 3 more before the boss die and I need to wait a lot time to get one more.
    (Sb -> waiting debuff end (with immo, conflag, inci) -> when debuff fade Sb agin -> immo (if needed), conflag, inci during debuff -> when debuff fade Sb -> ...... in loop)
    Is it a better way to use my embers on Sb during execute phase ?
    Don't spam your SB's a soon as the boss goes in the execute range. Only throw one if you have to (embers capped or oom) and wait for your buffs (Dark Soul, trinkets...). The boss won't leave the execute range, so there is no urge to use the embers if you don't have to. Note that when you have the buffs you don't have to wait for the SB debuff to fade, you can spam your SB's and still get the mana.

    - which level of haste do you need minimally (i find your 2.6% too low imho) ?
    - optimise and tracks procs. procs procs procs : don't throw SB as soon as the execute is up, try to stick with a proc if possible (if the remaining life of the target is large enough)
    - throw the CB when you have procs UP, except if you're going oom or if a phase with no dps (immune, movement etc), if your @4 embers
    - cast a RoF if 2+ targets (beware of mana problems)
    - use and abuse of havoc , still wondering if you need to maintain 100% uptime of havoc when possible, and don't consider the 3.5 ember rule to wait be4 throwing a CB ?
    - try to line up DS with other cooldown, i analysed zumzum profile, my conclusion is that he took the shadopan trinket (on use proc, 1mn CD), and yu'lon even if he has accessed to other heroic trinkets, so you can everytime line up DS + shadopan trinket proc, combined with yu'lon one, probably the best combo
    - don't be tailor , my assumption is that tailoring gives a nice enchant wich is a proc, trying to line up 4 or 5 Procs (ex. Yu lon + windsong or jade + embrodory + DS + another trinket not on use) is impossible, so being another profession is better, flat int jewel for example
    Edit : just saw he changed its trinket to the "globule resin" one, no idea if my theory is still valid :/
    Actually I had pretty bad results each time I tried the Shado'Pan trinket instead of the Flashfrozen Globule, the effect is really weak :/
    Tailoring gives a proc that might be useful for spending one or two embers between two Dark Souls if you can line it up with Yu'lon, Jade Spirit...
    As for Havoc I would say use it on cooldown, except if you are about to get big buffs or one target is approaching execute range (for Havoc+SB).
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  4. #264
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    I've been having great results lining up the Shado'Pan trinket. It gives me an ember dump every 1 minute, which usually coincides with LW or Yu-lon proc for an easy mini-boost. I've found sometimes I have to delay trinket/DS use by as much as 10 seconds at a time waiting on procs to line up, but the results have been more than worth it. There's a great feeling when you back to back 1.3 mil crit (the Elagon video on my stream, you can see the stars align towards the end of the fight for some serious e-peen number growth).

    As far as haste, I've been relying on raid buffs for haste, bringing me to around 7-8%. I was capping haste at 3050 rating, but boosting mastery at the expense of haste didn't really change my overall DPS much, but it did give me more powerful cleaves. I'll keep playing around with it, I'm catching up to Zum, within 20 or so on some fights now. I'd be catching you quicker if I didn't play Ret since vanilla . Learning curve is slowing me down.

  5. #265
    Just went from affli to destro cus I find it lot more amusing to play. But I have some slight problems with what I should do with my gear, currently sims int-hit-crit/mastery-haste. So what should I reforge, gem etc.

    this is my char http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Wazzap/simple

  6. #266
    According to my tests (Dummy and Simcraft), with my gear (iLvL476):

    GoSac: Mastery
    GoSup: Crit

    But I only tested in Raid environment with GoSac:Mastery... I'm not sure if in real situations, GoSac:Crit perform better. The difference between mastery and critical is very close, with mastery slightly higher (with my gear). So, I don't know if I use GoSac: critical>mastery can generate more embers and equalize or perform better than GoSac: mastery>crit.

    Someone tried in Raid (not dummy or simcraft) run with GoSac: Critical>Mastery? My concern is about diminishing returns of Critical strike...

    Thanks!

  7. #267
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    What diminishing returns of Critical strike ?


    I have been playing as GoSac full Mastery since release, and here is my reasonning behind this choice (feel free to correct me if this is a dumb thinking) : the bigger the part of your DPS made by ChaosBolts/Shadowburns/FnBs is, the more Mastery gains value (ok this sentence might be gibberish but I can't find another way to say it), since it counts triple for those spells. So if you play smartly with buffs and embers, Mastery seems to be the way to go for me.
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  8. #268
    Hey zûmzum, thanks a lot!

    I read about Crit DR in wowpedia and Blizz foruns. Is it incorrect? If yes, I'm sorry!

  9. #269
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    Isn't that only for the critical strike from melees and hunters ?
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  10. #270
    I don't know... Probably I'm wrong!

    I read this in blizz foruns:

    "crit chance have a kind of "diminishing returns" mechanic built in. A 1% increase of either stat will not increase the total damage output by 1%, but usually by a little less."

    I know, I know... I shouldn't believe in everything I read! Hehehehe! So, Spells Crit doesn't has DR, correct?

    Zûmzum, I hope that I'm not disturbing you! =)

    So, I always played with Demonology spec, I started play WoW in Cata and always studied this game reading foruns and testing in dummy. I don't believe 100% in simulations, like simcraft (excellent program) and others... I prefer practice and change things using dummy and dgs/LFRs...

    I was playing MoP with Demo/Affliction, but after reading your comments I decide try to play with Destro. I read this guide and studied Icy veins/Noxxic/Mr. Robot/Simcraft. I changed my Affliction spec last week to Destro (sometimes I put Affliction again to make more tests) and I enjoyed to play with! I'm doing pratically the same DPS (litte bit lower) with Destruction and I run Garajal and my result were better than Affliction/Demo. My doubt is about Simulation Craft and a lot of opinions that I read in this forum! Remembering Simcrafts puts Affliction on top with large difference! I think in practice the difference is smaller than the informed!

    On single target fights without adds, is possible to do with Destro a damage compared Affliction DPS?

    I'm asking you, because I think your Warlock Destruction is one of the best!

    I enjoyed playing with Destro...

    Thanks for your help!

  11. #271
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    On single target fights without adds, is possible to do with Destro a damage compared Affliction DPS?
    Well I would like to be optimistic on this matter, but Destruction on a strict single target fight is kinda... meeeeh :/

    But on the first boss of HoF (which is a single target boss) this week, the three specs seemed to be equal on World of Logs, so hope isn't lost yet
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  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aruotnof View Post
    I don't know... Probably I'm wrong!

    I read this in blizz foruns:

    "crit chance have a kind of "diminishing returns" mechanic built in. A 1% increase of either stat will not increase the total damage output by 1%, but usually by a little less."

    I know, I know... I shouldn't believe in everything I read! Hehehehe! So, Spells Crit doesn't has DR, correct?

    Zûmzum, I hope that I'm not disturbing you! =)

    So, I always played with Demonology spec, I started play WoW in Cata and always studied this game reading foruns and testing in dummy. I don't believe 100% in simulations, like simcraft (excellent program) and others... I prefer practice and change things using dummy and dgs/LFRs...

    I was playing MoP with Demo/Affliction, but after reading your comments I decide try to play with Destro. I read this guide and studied Icy veins/Noxxic/Mr. Robot/Simcraft. I changed my Affliction spec last week to Destro (sometimes I put Affliction again to make more tests) and I enjoyed to play with! I'm doing pratically the same DPS (litte bit lower) with Destruction and I run Garajal and my result were better than Affliction/Demo. My doubt is about Simulation Craft and a lot of opinions that I read in this forum! Remembering Simcrafts puts Affliction on top with large difference! I think in practice the difference is smaller than the informed!

    On single target fights without adds, is possible to do with Destro a damage compared Affliction DPS?

    I'm asking you, because I think your Warlock Destruction is one of the best!

    I enjoyed playing with Destro...

    Thanks for your help!
    By diminishing returns, they mean that as you gain more crit strike rating, the value of the point becomes less. For example, if you go from 1% crit to 2% crit, you double your chance to crit (100% increase). However, going from 10% crit to 11% crit, you gain far less crit chance (10% increase). The actual damage itself from Crit doesn't diminish in any way, and always counts for full for CB. The probability to gain a critical strike per % raise in crit diminishes, that's all.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    By diminishing returns, they mean that as you gain more crit strike rating, the value of the point becomes less. For example, if you go from 1% crit to 2% crit, you double your chance to crit (100% increase). However, going from 10% crit to 11% crit, you gain far less crit chance (10% increase). The actual damage itself from Crit doesn't diminish in any way, and always counts for full for CB. The probability to gain a critical strike per % raise in crit diminishes, that's all.
    Humm... I got it! Thank you!

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-05 at 03:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Well I would like to be optimistic on this matter, but Destruction on a strict single target fight is kinda... meeeeh :/
    Hahahaha! So, let's put some add behind the boss to SB him! XD

  14. #274
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    Hahahaha! So, let's put some add behind the boss to SB him! XD
    Well if you're into that you can Havoc your mind controlled friends and CB/SB the boss for great results !

    Edit: I was kidding
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-11-06 at 09:42 AM.
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  15. #275
    Good!

    Well... I will continue the tests and reforges! This week I will run mogushan with Destro and try to follow your general tips!

    Thanks!

  16. #276
    Hello,

    I'm back with some news !
    I played destro for the lasts bosses on Msg and I worked my embers management and ... that's pretty cool.
    As you said, I try to use my embers (chaos bolt) more often, use and abuse havoc and on elegon and emporor I got a pretty good result (105k dps on elegon, 55k on emporor at 471ilvl).
    I will work again my gameplay but I'm on a good way.

    Thanks a lot !!

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    I was kidding
    I know! Relax! =)

  18. #278
    I just noticed on the ptr grimorie of sacrifice now put a dot effect onto chaos bolt, something like 25% additional damage over 3 sec.

  19. #279
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    It's so far, unreported nerf on the PTR, which we're hoping, based on current tweets and posts, won't make it live. But if it does, I plan on clogging their forums and call center with accusations of unwarranted stealth nerfs. For now, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Looks like they're just playing around.

  20. #280
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    How do you see Lord Tayak as destro spec ? better be affli so as it a no-add boss ?

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