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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by ashin View Post
    Thank you - yes it is helpful. But now I think maybe I should not be bothering with haste/gosup at all..

    Also I am still curious why, after I reforged to Haste, simcraft is now saying Crit is the most important stat for me (still using gosup).
    Is this you? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ashin/advanced


    If so, you have a large amount of haste already, so it's possible that balancing out the stats more would lead to more potential dps. The haste>whatever rule for supremacy is a guideline. Simcraft will pretty much always be more correct in the stats you should go for than a general guideline.


    As for gosup vs gosac, the difference between the 2 single target is negligible, but gosup is more forgiving. The second you can cleave gosac pulls ahead very, very quickly.

  2. #302
    I have a quick question regarding gems. Lets say I have an item with a red socket with a +60 Intellect bonus.

    Using a red gem will give me 160 Intellect + 60 Intellect (220 total) but using an Orange gem will give me 140 Intellect + 160 Haste/Mastery/whatever. Is 80 intellect worth that much more than 160 of my best secondary stat, or is it about the same?

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I have a quick question regarding gems. Lets say I have an item with a red socket with a +60 Intellect bonus.

    Using a red gem will give me 160 Intellect + 60 Intellect (220 total) but using an Orange gem will give me 140 Intellect + 160 Haste/Mastery/whatever. Is 80 intellect worth that much more than 160 of my best secondary stat, or is it about the same?
    I have no experience with reforging or simming a destro profile for myself this expansion, but for Affli at least once you hit that 480-485 range mastery starts fast becoming worth 0,5+ of your INT value, meaning it starts to be worth it to gem for mastery over INT. Destro values will differ, but getting a sim of your current gear with scale factors should tell you if it's worth it to gem for INT or go hybrid gems. Noone can tell you for sure if it's worth it without simming it first.
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  4. #304
    Destro will be gemming for intellect all the way through this tier. For me (at 495 ilvl) 1 crit is worth ~0.47 int and in full bis mastery pulls ahead but still at ~0.49 of int. I see no reason to go for anything else with these values.

    PS. Don't go Destro for Protector HC. Conflag slows are not good enough and I only see it viable if you play with a Spriest or someone else with a permaslow. For add killing it's Affli > Destro in P1 but then in P2+P3 Destro is more efficient, however glyphed Curse of Exhaustion is perhaps the best slow ability in the game atm. For single target Affli is obviously best. (I ended up going Affli for our kill with Hunter+Spriest on adds)
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-11-26 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Is this you? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Ashin/advanced
    If so, you have a large amount of haste already, so it's possible that balancing out the stats more would lead to more potential dps. The haste>whatever rule for supremacy is a guideline. Simcraft will pretty much always be more correct in the stats you should go for than a general guideline.
    Yes, that is me. I think I managed to log out in my raiding gear this time.

    I'm aware that stat weights change based on your item level and current gear. But the part I'm having trouble understanding is why Crit would sim as my #1 secondary right now if, regardless of which build you use, Mastery is always considered more valuable than Crit to Destro. That's on top of the fact that it completely flip-flopped with Haste on a GoSup build ..

    It's just very confusing and I don't know how to construct my BiS list when my stat weights seem to flip-flop on a daily basis.
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  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by ashin View Post
    Yes, that is me. I think I managed to log out in my raiding gear this time.

    I'm aware that stat weights change based on your item level and current gear. But the part I'm having trouble understanding is why Crit would sim as my #1 secondary right now if, regardless of which build you use, Mastery is always considered more valuable than Crit to Destro. That's on top of the fact that it completely flip-flopped with Haste on a GoSup build ..

    It's just very confusing and I don't know how to construct my BiS list when my stat weights seem to flip-flop on a daily basis.
    A BiS list is an outdated concept.

    All you can do is get your hands on the highest ilevel gear you can and keep your stats balanced (as destro and demo), and then reforge into the stats which provide most benefit based off of personal simming.

  7. #307
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    A BiS list is an outdated concept.

    All you can do is get your hands on the highest ilevel gear you can and keep your stats balanced (as destro and demo), and then reforge into the stats which provide most benefit based off of personal simming.
    sooo true.

  8. #308
    I have an alternate idea on what is happening. I kept thinking about the fact that it was odd to see both crit and haste behaving as if they had breakpoints. Then it occured to me that in a sense they do. Both stats contribute to the rate at which we generate embers, or launch chaos bolts. The spell is such a high dpet / significant source of our damage that, combined with a fixed duration fight that simcraft uses, I think it's creating the illusion of break points. In practice this isn't very useful since actual raid fights vary significantly in duration, and planning the "perfect" regen rate for any given duration is not practical.

    I was thinking that, to test this theory, I could just run the sim at various fight durations besides the default, and see if the stat weights indeed change.
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  9. #309
    I was doing some quick tests on the target dummy (currently Ilvl 483) to see the ember generation on Rain of Fire. For me it gives 1 ember every ~40 seconds and does about 3.5k dps. So lets say each chaos bolt I do hits for 300k (would obviously hit for way more in a raid with procs/CDs/etc). In the duration of a fight that lasts 8 minutes, could get off 12 chaos bolts dealing a total of 3.6mil damage. That would be 7.5 dps from chaos bolt and 3.5 from rain of fire, so that is a 11k dps increase without raids buffs in theory. I am wondering if it is worth it to use Rain of Fire in our rotation even though the mana cost is high.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Cultist View Post
    I was doing some quick tests on the target dummy (currently Ilvl 483) to see the ember generation on Rain of Fire. For me it gives 1 ember every ~40 seconds and does about 3.5k dps. So lets say each chaos bolt I do hits for 300k (would obviously hit for way more in a raid with procs/CDs/etc). In the duration of a fight that lasts 8 minutes, could get off 12 chaos bolts dealing a total of 3.6mil damage. That would be 7.5 dps from chaos bolt and 3.5 from rain of fire, so that is a 11k dps increase without raids buffs in theory. I am wondering if it is worth it to use Rain of Fire in our rotation even though the mana cost is high.
    I'd be surprised if they made it intentionally be in our single target rotation. (2 targets seems intended) IRRC they intentionally nerfed RoF in beta when it was being used for single target.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'd be surprised if they made it intentionally be in our single target rotation. (2 targets seems intended) IRRC they intentionally nerfed RoF in beta when it was being used for single target.
    I'm getting anywhere from 2 bits to 6 bits of an ember from one RoF on one target, and it's doing 65k with no buffs at all with immo on the target. In terms of pure damage it seems like it does slightly more damage than an incinerate, and has the potential to gen more embers. I'm inclined to say that it might be in the rotation in the capacity of replacing a non-backdrafted incin.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 05:55 PM ----------

    Also the chaos bolt DoT always crits, but isn't recorded (in skada at least) as a DoT, and instead more direct damage.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 06:01 PM ----------

    Testing the DoT component a little more:

    Skada records all chaos bolt damage as crits and as direct damage.

    I cast 4 chaos bolts in a row on a target dummy such that the cast time + travel time was under 3 seconds. With 4 hits of chaos bolt and supposedly 3x4 ticks of of chaos bolt, I'd expect to see 16 hits total. (12 from dot and 4 direct).


    I got 14 hits of chaos bolt.

    As a result I'm 99% sure that the DoT component doesn't act like a normal dot and extend duration. Instead it overwrites the old one. Sad, sad news Have to cast an incinerate or something between bolts if you're on top of the boss.

  11. #311
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-5b...?s=7650&e=8137

    It doesn't show up on skada, but it does show on WoL, if you check Dmg Done by Spell details and check uptime. Mine felt pretty low but eh first time with Destro for the hell of it on this guy.

  12. #312
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    I'm getting anywhere from 2 bits to 6 bits of an ember from one RoF on one target,
    Now that is interesting
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-11-28 at 08:47 AM.
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  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Now that is interesting
    Indeed. The only thing that I'm unsure on in the increased mana cost of a rotation which includes RoF. Not to mention penalizing movement

  14. #314
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    You mean you won't have mana for Fel Flame ?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-28 at 01:16 PM ----------

    I just tested RoF on dummies (target dummies, not players from the Alliance ). From rough testing (going from 0 to 40 emberbits) it seems to have something like 20-25% chance (I needed around 180 ticks on both tests) to gain an ember on each tick, definitely a buff since it was 25% before (if I'm not mistaken) and we now have twice more ticks
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-11-28 at 01:04 PM.
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  15. #315
    I am still waiting for someone to say how is destro doing now! Do you see much dps increase? Are we finally a bit close to the other specs>? /tap

    I am at work and cannot test but I am anxious to read!
    Last edited by Rayaleith; 2012-11-28 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Not being lazy

  16. #316
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    It was already equivalent to the two others, so with the buff(s) it should be pretty good.
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  17. #317
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    How big a DPS increase (roughly) is Conflag generating embers btw?
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  18. #318
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    it is true that blizzard have nerfed CB?
    I see some changes about the amount of damage done by this spell , previous 5.1 i crit with this around 400-600 , but now my max is 396.

  19. #319
    25% of total CB damage turned dot now (with GoSac). I'm not sure if pandemic work with it... If doesn't work, destro will have a problem to chain CB! (IMO)
    Last edited by Aruotnof; 2012-11-28 at 07:05 PM.

  20. #320
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    Î haven't seen it mentionned yet : FnB+Conflag has now 2 charges like the normal Conflag, it wasn't this way before 5.1 right ?

    Edit: ok it's a nerf actually, the charges are now shared -_-
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