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  1. #81
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    It is because you are using this crappy add-on named Recount which misleads people on their DPS for ages. Just download Skada and you will have your effective (i.e real) DPS.
    His DPS should have a big drop when he casts again, which isn't happening on your vids.
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-09-09 at 10:02 PM.
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  2. #82
    Or you can just make sure you stay in combat. I like to just melee the target if I want to test pets.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Or you can just make sure you stay in combat. I like to just melee the target if I want to test pets.
    on my vid i was spamming incinerate should watch it to see that i was just immolate spamming on the dummy while dpsing it but here is a log on baleroc which is only one target no moving etc. http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=1587&e=1730 he did 11.2k i'll have to log the target dummy now since i was helping a new guild with firelands

  4. #84
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    He is doing 8k5 DPS on the log you gave, not 11k2.

    But the fact that he cast 5 times 4 Felbolts is a bug.

    Edit: ok I tried to find logs with other pets to compare but everybody seems to be playing with GoSac
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-09-10 at 07:19 AM.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    He is doing 8k5 DPS on the log you gave, not 11k2.

    But the fact that he cast 5 times 4 Felbolts is a bug.

    Edit: ok I tried to find logs with other pets to compare but everybody seems to be playing with GoSac
    did you check the baleroc fight the only fight in firelands like patchwerk? he did 11240.6 the dpse is off because i had random lag from who knows where, but yeah the felbolts hopefully it's a tooltip error ROFL imp doing more dps than all pets and more than i could do with sac

  6. #86
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    Still waiting for your tests on Target Dummy with Skada instead of Recount.
    DPS on WoL is worthless, DPS(e) is the column to watch.

    There are 10 seconds holes in your pet's activity that would explain its low active time.
    Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-09-10 at 03:33 PM.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Still waiting for your tests on Target Dummy with Skada instead of Recount.
    DPS on WoL is worthless, DPS(e) is the column to watch.
    yup will have it up later today have to go to the gym and run my sprints in a bit then go to work. Dps(e) doesn't matter on that fight as you can see i said i was lagging so my active time was down and i know for sure that terror gaurd does more than 2.7k dps it does around 5k like the logs have on the dps

  8. #88
    The Terrorguard does 5.7k when it's up...DPS(e) is the DPS over the entire fight. Since there's a whole minute+ where he isn't up that's why DPS(e) is what it is.

    I honestly don't understand why it's so hard to get logs on target dummies. It's 10 minutes ffs.

    Edit: By the way, your 'lag' didn't affect your pet DPS at all. My napkin math says that your pet had enough energy for 48 Felbolts, you had 52. The difference is one 'burst' from the Fel Imp so it's basically a rounding error. The active time is correct.
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2012-09-10 at 03:56 PM.

  9. #89
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    Your active time is fine (97%).
    Your Fel Imp's active time is low (77%) because he has 10 sec holes while regeneating his energy.
    Your Terrorguard's active time is low (~50%) because it lasted ~1:10 and your fight lasted ~2:20.
    Everything seems normal (except the Imp casting 4 bolts in a row).

    I believe you are mistaken on DPS notions, because you are used to Recount giving you false information. Your Terrorguard's DPS is halved in DPS(e) because it has 50% uptime, that is its normal DPS (400k seems fine considering your gear and R10). Recount is giving you the "DPS while active" which is incorrect.
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Zumzumzum View Post
    Your active time is fine (97%).
    Your Fel Imp's active time is low (77%) because he has 10 sec holes while regeneating his energy.
    Your Terrorguard's active time is low (~50%) because it lasted ~1:10 and your fight lasted ~2:20.
    Everything seems normal (except the Imp casting 4 bolts in a row).

    I believe you are mistaken on DPS notions, because you are used to Recount giving you false information. Your Terrorguard's DPS is halved in DPS(e) because it has 50% uptime, that is its normal DPS (400k seems fine considering your gear and R10). Recount is giving you the "DPS while active" which is incorrect.
    I understand what you are saying about the doomgaurd and what dps(e) means but it still does not change the fact that the doomgaurds dps was 5.5k instead of 2.7k if you want to say oh he was up 50% of the time lets divide it by two go ahead. I lagged my up time was 97% because i had immolate on the target my imp's uptime was only 77% but as you say pets do not lag with their master right? then can you tell me what happened http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=8138&e=8301 on majordomo staghelm where my pet up time was 94% without lag only thing that changed was movement in the fight which caused him to not cast because i had him follow me to run away from the cat because pets are squishy now. With that I'm off just took my pre workout so i gotta jet btw love putting our heads together to figure out what bugs there are and how the imp will be the best pet come mop

  11. #91
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    Your Doomguard does the damage he does. 400k over 2:20 is 2k8 DPS, nothing bugged.
    Your Fel Imp did 8k DPS on Majordomo (which has a big DPS increase gimmick), nothing to see there.

    You are either very misinformed on how DPS works or a troll. Either way I will stop arguying with you, good gym. And download Skada.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothmeduso View Post
    majordomo staghelm where my pet up time was 94%
    The difference between the two fights is RNG. Because of the burstiness of the Imp under Glyph of Demon Hunting, the gaps between Imp casts is right on the edge of In Combat and Out of Combat. The fact that he was considered 'out of combat' on several occasions on Baleroc is just luck.

    If you think you lost a lot of Felbolt casts, why don't you just look at the damage breakdown for your imp? Here it is:
    Baleroc: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=1587&e=1730
    Majordomo: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=8138&e=8301

    52 casts in a 143 second fight, vs. 56 casts in a 163 second fight. Do you really think that your Imp could've done more than that on Baleroc?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothmeduso View Post
    I understand what you are saying about the doomgaurd and what dps(e) means but it still does not change the fact that the doomgaurds dps was 5.5k instead of 2.7k if you want to say oh he was up 50% of the time lets divide it by two go ahead. I lagged my up time was 97% because i had immolate on the target my imp's uptime was only 77% but as you say pets do not lag with their master right? then can you tell me what happened http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=8138&e=8301 on majordomo staghelm where my pet up time was 94% without lag only thing that changed was movement in the fight which caused him to not cast because i had him follow me to run away from the cat because pets are squishy now. With that I'm off just took my pre workout so i gotta jet btw love putting our heads together to figure out what bugs there are and how the imp will be the best pet come mop
    Let me try and explain the difference between DPS and DPS(e).

    First of all, Recount bases its DPS numbers from DPS, and Skada/World of Logs base their DPS numbers from DPS(e).

    DPS is the total damage you have dealt, divided by the total amount of seconds spent doing stuff. So, if you cast two Chaos Bolts in a fight, and then do nothing else, your DPS will be extremely high, because you've only cast two high DPET spells, and then done nothing else. It makes your DPS appear high, but in practical terms, its useless for analysis because its over a tiny period of time.

    DPS(e) is your effective DPS. This is the total damage you have dealt divided by the entire duration of combat. This is a record of what your damage per second was from the moment you entered combat until the moment you left combat. So if you cast two Chaos Bolts and then did nothing else for the rest of the fight, your DPS(e) would be extremely low because your damage over the entire fight would be very low. This is the only number that matters at all for DPS analysis calculations.

    If your Imp is able to do 10k dps whilst casting, but he is only casting for 50% of the time, then his dps is actually only 5k. (Made up numbers just to describe the example). Likewise, if your Doomguard does 5k dps, but he is only casting for 50% of the fight, then his actual dps is only 2.5k.

    Also, pets do not lag with their master.

    So to sum up, I can safely say that unless the Imp is buffed before MoP, it will not be better either now or at level 90. There is also nothing wrong with Simcraft's calculation of pet dps.

    To avoid clogging up the thread too much, if you want to continue discussing possibilities, make a new thread, and then come back here when you have conclusive data <3.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-09-10 at 05:12 PM.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    Let me try and explain the difference between DPS and DPS(e).

    First of all, Recount bases its DPS numbers from DPS, and Skada/World of Logs base their DPS numbers from DPS(e).

    DPS is the total damage you have dealt, divided by the total amount of seconds spent doing stuff. So, if you cast two Chaos Bolts in a fight, and then do nothing else, your DPS will be extremely high, because you've only cast two high DPET spells, and then done nothing else. It makes your DPS appear high, but in practical terms, its useless for analysis because its over a tiny period of time.

    DPS(e) is your effective DPS. This is the total damage you have dealt divided by the entire duration of combat. This is a record of what your damage per second was from the moment you entered combat until the moment you left combat. So if you cast two Chaos Bolts and then did nothing else for the rest of the fight, your DPS(e) would be extremely low because your damage over the entire fight would be very low. This is the only number that matters at all for DPS analysis calculations.

    If your Imp is able to do 10k dps whilst casting, but he is only casting for 50% of the time, then his dps is actually only 5k. (Made up numbers just to describe the example). Likewise, if your Doomguard does 5k dps, but he is only casting for 50% of the fight, then his actual dps is only 2.5k.

    Also, pets do not lag with their master.

    So to sum up, I can safely say that unless the Imp is buffed before MoP, it will not be better either now or at level 90. There is also nothing wrong with Simcraft's calculation of pet dps.

    To avoid clogging up the thread too much, if you want to continue discussing possibilities, make a new thread, and then come back here when you have conclusive data <3.
    phew just had a great workout and just took my post workout sardines in water and whey protein shake. Conclusive data you asked for is on the log i just sent showing the imp at 74% active time while i was lagging and without lagging at 94% active so until you can explain a reason for this then your explanation is inconclusive with your statement of the pet not lagging with his master. Yes we all know you made this thread but this thread is about destruction locks and maximizing damage per second and if i didn't lag my pet would of had 94% active time meaning his 11k dps would be 10.8k dps which is far greater than the 5.2k others are saying the pet is doing. In fact since you want to get technical with dps(e) his dps was still 8.5k which is 3.2k higher than what i believe someone said he was to be. This is with no flask etc. Mop Imp will be the way to go like it has always been with destro

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothmeduso View Post
    In fact since you want to get technical with dps(e) his dps was still 8.5k which is 3.2k higher than what i believe someone said he was to be. This is with no flask etc. Mop Imp will be the way to go like it has always been with destro
    What are you talking about? The Fel Imp sims to 7.8k DPS with your gear. Your Fel Imps did 8k+ because your Crit rate was 40%+ as opposed to ~35%.

    Also, do you understand how Glyph of Demon Hunting works? Under what scenario would you get a DPS upgrade from it? How would that work? Like has been stated from the beginning, your pet is Energy capped not GCD capped. What does Demon Hunting do that would change that?

    Edit: i am probably getting trolled so hard
    Last edited by Rustjive; 2012-09-10 at 07:01 PM.

  16. #96
    Let stop entertaining this troll or per son who is incapable of understanding. The 4 bolts instead of 3 is an interesting bug that should be looked at, the rest isn't worth the time to try and explain at this point since he's likely done the dummy test, seen that it isn't something that proves his point and elected not to post it.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post

    First of all, Recount bases its DPS numbers from DPS, and Skada/World of Logs base their DPS numbers from DPS(e).
    I think there is a lot of misunderstanding regarding Recount ... I run Recount, and my "dps" from it is always exactly the same as the DPS(e) from my WoL parses.

    Recount may be quicker to consider one out of combat on the dummies than Skada under certain conditions, but as long as you are staying active or are engaged with an aggroed mob it will consider you in combat.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    The difference between the two fights is RNG. Because of the burstiness of the Imp under Glyph of Demon Hunting, the gaps between Imp casts is right on the edge of In Combat and Out of Combat. The fact that he was considered 'out of combat' on several occasions on Baleroc is just luck.

    If you think you lost a lot of Felbolt casts, why don't you just look at the damage breakdown for your imp? Here it is:
    Baleroc: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=1587&e=1730
    Majordomo: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...?s=8138&e=8301

    52 casts in a 143 second fight, vs. 56 casts in a 163 second fight. Do you really think that your Imp could've done more than that on Baleroc?
    52 casts on a 143 second fight of no movement but lag. 56 casts on fight where as you have to move and i have my imp follow so he doesn't get creamed by the leap since pets are squishy live atm. and as far as casts you would divide 52 by 3 which is 17 or 17.3 to be exact. If 143/17.3=8.3 secs to cast the next felbolt which is lower than the 10 second regen time someone stated earlier. With that being said the first felbolt hits then the second comes 1.1 afterwards then the last at .9 reducing that regen time by 2 seconds leaving us with 6.3 so in all actuality the regen time is only 6.3 seconds from the 3rd felbolt to the first of the next cast. My math is right if you think it is not point out where the math went wrong? Any can use a calculator and figure this math out simply just do 143/52 felbolts <3

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 02:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    What are you talking about? The Fel Imp sims to 7.8k DPS with your gear. Your Fel Imps did 8k+ because your Crit rate was 40%+ as opposed to ~35%.

    Also, do you understand how Glyph of Demon Hunting works? Under what scenario would you get a DPS upgrade from it? How would that work? Like has been stated from the beginning, your pet is Energy capped not GCD capped. What does Demon Hunting do that would change that?

    Edit: i am probably getting trolled so hard
    um my crit rate is only 18% so 5% would make it be 23% idk where you see this 35% and 40%. you keep saying energy cap and i see people are saying the energy regen time is 10 secs derp derp. If you read above i gave you the math that disapproves that theory. Simulation craft even has on it's main page that they only patched it for this new patch and it could be experiencing errors. You said it yourself my pet sims for 7.8k with the buffs turned on and everything correct? That shows you that it is off because all the people i know who use simcraft have all the raid buffs turned on so if you are one of those people which i am sure you are then why am i showing higher numbers with no flask and not all buffs? So is simulationcraft still accurate or i could be wrong you prob didn't have all the buffs turned on and such.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothmeduso View Post
    bunch of irrelevant crap
    You are completely confused. 52 casts on 143 seconds is actually buggy - if you look at the log your Imp always casts 4 times but mostly only 3 bolts hit - on 4 occasions it hits 4 times. 48/3 = 16 casts. 143/16 casts is 8.9 seconds.

    Movement in general has very little to do with anything. It takes your Imp roughly 9 seconds to regen the Energy needed to cast because of Demon Hunting. If you move around during those 9 seconds there's no DPS loss whatsoever.

    Also, there's clearly movement. You took Tormented.

    um my crit rate is only 18% so 5% would make it be 23% idk where you see this 35% and 40%.
    Fizsy on Baleroc: 52 Casts, 22 Crits. 22/52 = 42.3%.
    Fizsy on Majordomo: 56 Casts, 18 Crits. 18/56 = 32.1%, resulting in 7.4k DPS, or lower than sim.

    You also forget Dark Soul.

    Everything else you're saying is just completely irrelevant. You have all the buffs: Dark Intent for SP, Moonkin Aura for Spell Haste, AB for Crit, Grace of Air for Mastery, Mark for stats. Flask is 300 INT when you have 7.1k INT, or roughly 4%. Your Fel Imp did more damage because you Crit at a higher rate than expected. The end.

    Thanks for drawing attention to the 4 hit Demon Hunting Fel Imp though.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    You are completely confused. 52 casts on 143 seconds is actually buggy - if you look at the log your Imp always casts 4 times but mostly only 3 bolts hit - on 4 occasions it hits 4 times. 48/3 = 16 casts. 143/16 casts is 8.9 seconds.

    Movement in general has very little to do with anything. It takes your Imp roughly 9 seconds to regen the Energy needed to cast because of Demon Hunting. If you move around during those 9 seconds there's no DPS loss whatsoever.

    Also, there's clearly movement. You took Tormented.


    Fizsy on Baleroc: 52 Casts, 22 Crits. 22/52 = 42.3%.
    Fizsy on Majordomo: 56 Casts, 18 Crits. 18/56 = 32.1%, resulting in 7.4k DPS, or lower than sim.


    You also forget Dark Soul.

    Everything else you're saying is just completely irrelevant. You have all the buffs: Dark Intent for SP, Moonkin Aura for Spell Haste, AB for Crit, Grace of Air for Mastery, Mark for stats. Flask is 300 INT when you have 7.1k INT, or roughly 4%. Your Fel Imp did more damage because you Crit at a higher rate than expected. The end.

    Thanks for drawing attention to the 4 hit Demon Hunting Fel Imp though.
    NP im always here to point out what is wrong. Like the fact that someone said it takes 10 seconds for the imp to cast felbolt again. 9 seconds would go down to 7 seconds do to the felbolts are not hitting the target at the same time for all three to hit there is a 2 second delay one 1.1 for the second felbolt to hit and the 3rd for .9 seconds to hit. Though there was a bug it still does not change the fact that it was still 52 casts on the log. Majordomo I had the imp moving so of course his dps would go down and while i had him on follow he still cast more than he did on baleroc. Crits and casts is what you are basing your crit % off of right? then answer me this what changed to make it 42% and 32% if my crit was so high? On baleroc why did my imp do more dps than the sims if you simmed it with all the buffs? To get your point across you have to explain your reasoning all you are doing is saying I see this so this is the way it is I am god lol. I will type this again since you are choosing to ignore this, for Majordomo i had my imp following during the cat phase which makes his dps go lower you said it yourself it was lower than the sims right? So explain this how did he get more casts off? and at a lower crit percentage rate than when i was lagging on a stand still fight you say he can cast, 4 more felbolts in 20 seconds when we were on the run for more than 38 seconds that makes the time lower than that of baleroc. You say movement doesn't matter when i set the imp on follow when i move but infact it does for the reason i just gave meaning the imp was attacking 18 seconds less than on majordomo you do the math oh wait i have already done it just say thanks again when you are in mop playing with the imp if you do decide to play destruction.

    On another note you say my crit was above 40% my crit % was roughly 27.7% Baleroc= 111 cast 27 crits 111/27 you do not add chaos bolt to the equation because it is an automatic critical strike.
    Majordomo= 122 casts 36 crits 122/36= 30.5% so as i say again even with dark soul my crit was still on average 27-31%.
    Last edited by Smoothmeduso; 2012-09-10 at 08:20 PM.

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