Page 7 of 31 FirstFirst ...
5
6
7
8
9
17
... LastLast
  1. #121
    Wait...so I can Havoc the boss and Shadowburn a dying add 3 times...and the boss will also get hit three times even if he is NOT in execute range?

    I did not know this.

    I hope Xelnath does not know this either.

    In defense of this mechanic...umm...it's situational and...umm...yeah.

  2. #122
    Epic!
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    France, Illidan-EU
    Posts
    1,743
    He used to know, but he either think its a nice trick or he just forgot.

    Let's address that in 5.1 if needed, no need to hotfix, right ?
    NEW Android App : World of Quizzcraft
    Test your knowledge of WoW with more than 1100 questions and 80 achievements!

    Web Apps : Deaths Analyzer, WoL Timeline, Megaera Dps Calculator
    WoW-Heroes

  3. #123
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Spook central
    Posts
    4,109
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post

    In defense of this mechanic...umm...it's situational and...umm...yeah.
    Situational, yes, , , Right.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn both cost 10/10 Embers so really it is inappropriate for Shadowburn not to consume all three charges of Havoc when Chaos bolt does.

    I recognize that it's awesome and super amazing that Shadowburn can be use three times in a row with Havoc at the moment, but that really just breaks all sense of logical consistancy.
    Well the difference between the two is that chaos-bolt can be used at any time on a boss fight while Shadowburn can only be used when a mob is in execute range. Plus there's the added difficulty with mobs that die before you can get 3 burns off.

  5. #125
    Speaking of Havok, let me just throw this little macro out there for anyone might be a little less versed in them.

    /cast [@focus,exists][@mouseover] Havok

    That'll cast Havok on your focus target if you have one, and whatever you have your mouse cursor on if you don't have one. Very handy for getting Havok up without having to target switch twice.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizelda View Post
    Wait...so I can Havoc the boss and Shadowburn a dying add 3 times...and the boss will also get hit three times even if he is NOT in execute range?

    I did not know this.

    I hope Xelnath does not know this either.

    In defense of this mechanic...umm...it's situational and...umm...yeah.
    He knows. I brought it up when the change to CB and Havoc occurred, and he said he would fix it. That, has, however, yet to occur.

    Keep in mind that if one add dies, you can SB another dying add or two to get your 3 casts off. Also, let's not forget that for each add that dies within 5 seconds of SB we get an ember refunded, so if we Havoc the boss and SB 3 dying adds we'll effectively get 6 SBs for a 0 sum ember cost.

  7. #127
    Nothing to see here. Move along.

  8. #128
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Spook central
    Posts
    4,109
    the last update introduced Shadowburn granting an bonus ember when ever it instantly kills a target (and this is in addition to the initial Ember that was use to cast the spell being refunded if the target dies). And if a havoc-cleaved Shadowburn kills two targets instantly you get 2 bonus embers plus the refunded ember!!!

    I got so many embers i don't know what to do with myself!!!. Destro is amazingly fun for sniping killing blows now in Heroic Dungeons, now on par with Metamorphosis killing-blow-sniping. (poor Shadow Priests/Hunters, you have a cooldown on your execute )
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-09-17 at 03:35 PM.

  9. #129
    Hi, I am reading recent findings that grimoire of sacrifice is now the talent of choice for a destro lock, over the grimoire of supremacy.

    although i am pretty peed off at having to lose the pet full stop..i mean why else do you play a lock but to have these pets? it seems sacrificing the pet no wmakes u a shadow mage (((

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    the last update introduced Shadowburn granting an bonus ember when ever it instantly kills a target (and this is in addition to the initial Ember that was use to cast the spell being refunded if the target dies). And if a havoc-cleaved Shadowburn kills two targets instantly you get 2 bonus embers plus the refunded ember!!!

    I got so many embers i don't know what to do with myself!!!. Destro is amazingly fun for sniping killing blows now in Heroic Dungeons, now on par with Metamorphosis killing-blow-sniping. (poor Shadow Priests/Hunters, you have a cooldown on your execute )
    I'll have to test this when I get home, but I don't think that's what happened with this patch. There was a bug where we weren't getting the ember refunded if the target died too soon. I think this patch simply corrected said bug.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by MorticiaNoire View Post
    Hi, I am reading recent findings that grimoire of sacrifice is now the talent of choice for a destro lock, over the grimoire of supremacy.

    although i am pretty peed off at having to lose the pet full stop..i mean why else do you play a lock but to have these pets? it seems sacrificing the pet no wmakes u a shadow mage (((
    This is mentioned in the first post, but the difference between sac and sup is incredibly small.

    Edit: Actually, it seems its about ~1k dps now. This is only true at level 85 though.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2012-09-18 at 01:37 AM.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by evralia View Post
    This is mentioned in the first post, but the difference between sac and sup is incredibly small.
    Indeed. It's the sort of difference that only makes a difference if you're doing cutting edge progression content or extreme soloing tricks. For most people, myself included, the choice between Sac and Sup is one of style and utility.

    The same would hold true when choosing between Sup demons. The Observer was very slightly higher damage, the last I check, and an interrupt is always a useful tool to bring. But I find myself using the Shivarra for basic daily work most often just because I've wanted one for years. It's easy enough to switch if I find myself in a situation where it actually matters.

  13. #133
    ok thank you for that ;-)

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    How does one make the best use of Havoc in various situations?
    The options that present themselves to me are:

    1) Cast Havoc on A; cast Chaos Bolt on B;
    2) Cast Havoc on A; cast Immolate>Conflagrate>Incinerate on B;
    3) Cast Rain on Fire over pack around A; cast FnB Immolate pack around A; cast Havoc on A; cast Incinerate three times on B

    I generally use method 1) on bosses with adds, i generally use method 2) while soloing/questing, i use method 3 to build up embers on trash.
    am i doing right? or i am missing something?
    I meant to address this sooner.

    This sounds about right, however just know that you should never use methods 2 or 3 on bosses. The reason being is that Havoc is, for all intents and purposes, a free resource cooldown every 25 seconds. In order to get the most out of the CD we need to maximize the resource gain.

    1) We get a free Chaos Bolt, resulting in what is essentially 10 extra ember bits
    2) We get an extra Incinerate, resulting in 1-2 ember bits. Any gains from Immolate are virtually negligible
    3) We get 3 extra incinerates, resulting in a maximum of 6 extra ember bits, and a minimum of 3.

    Therefore, from a resource standpoint it will ALWAYS be best to spend Havoc on 1 Chaos Bolt. However, let's consider a 4th scenario: Cast Havoc on A, and then cast Shadowburn on dying adds B, C, and D.

    4) We get 3 free Shadowburns, which equates to 30 ember bits. However, since the adds then died we were refunded the initial cost of all 3 as well, bringing up to a grand total of 60 ember bits.

    In that scenario we end with the same amount of embers that we started with, however we also were able to get off 6 casts that should have cost us embers. Even in scenario where you cast Shadowburn on one add 3 times, you will still get a refund for the cost of at least one of the casts, giving you a 40 ember bit equivalence.

    Furthermore, it is for this reason that in ANY fight with more than one target, Sacrifice will ALWAYS be the best talent choice as it boosts the damage of the spells we cast with Havoc. The added benefits of both the CB/SB cleave as well as the mastery heavy build that will then follow (which will increase our aoe power through FnB) makes Sacrifice the vastly superior talent in literally any fight with more than one target.

    While Supremacy might technically be the best talent in a Patchwerk style fight, it's irresponsible to proclaim it to be the best in any sort of guide without mentioning this caveat.
    Last edited by Xorn; 2012-09-18 at 10:12 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by neubs986 View Post
    I meant to address this sooner.

    This sounds about right, however just know that you should never use methods 2 or 3 on bosses. The reason being is that Havoc is, for all intents and purposes, a free resource cooldown every 25 seconds. In order to get the most out of the CD we need to maximize the resource gain.

    1) We get a free Chaos Bolt, resulting in what is essentially 10 extra ember bits
    2) We get an extra Incinerate, resulting in 1-2 ember bits. Any gains from Immolate are virtually negligible
    3) We get 3 extra incinerates, resulting in a maximum of 6 extra ember bits, and a minimum of 3.

    Therefore, from a resource standpoint it will ALWAYS be best to spend Havoc on 1 Chaos Bolt. However, let's consider a 4th scenario: Cast Havoc on A, and then cast Shadowburn on dying adds B, C, and D.

    4) We get 3 free Shadowburns, which equates to 30 ember bits. However, since the adds then died we were refunded the initial cost of all 3 as well, bringing up to a grand total of 60 ember bits.

    In that scenario we end with the same amount of embers that we started with, however we also were able to get off 6 casts that should have cost us embers. Even in scenario where you cast Shadowburn on one add 3 times, you will still get a refund for the cost of at least one of the casts, giving you a 40 ember bit equivalence.

    Furthermore, it is for this reason that in ANY fight with more than one target, Sacrifice will ALWAYS be the best talent choice as it boosts the damage of the spells we cast with Havoc. The added benefits of both the CB/SB cleave as well as the mastery heavy build that will then follow (which will increase our aoe power through FnB) makes Sacrifice the vastly superior talent in literally any fight with more than one target.

    While Supremacy might technically be the best talent in a Patchwerk style fight, it's irresponsible to proclaim it to be the best in any sort of guide without mentioning this caveat.
    You also need to include a fourth option:

    4) Cast an Immolate and 2 Incinerates.

    The second immolate can give embers itself if you crit, and you'll get roughly 5*crit chance % embers from the immolate, plus the damage (albeit not much). Chaos Bolt is still the most damage you can do with a Havoc, but if you don't have an ember and you won't have an add to cast a Chaos Bolt on in the next 25 seconds, then you should use the havoc for some Incinerates for the extra ember generation with no cost.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    You also need to include a fourth option:

    4) Cast an Immolate and 2 Incinerates.

    The second immolate can give embers itself if you crit, and you'll get roughly 5*crit chance % embers from the immolate, plus the damage (albeit not much). Chaos Bolt is still the most damage you can do with a Havoc, but if you don't have an ember and you won't have an add to cast a Chaos Bolt on in the next 25 seconds, then you should use the havoc for some Incinerates for the extra ember generation with no cost.
    If you don't have an add to cast Chaos Bolt on, then what are you going to be casting incinerate on? Furthermore, seeing as you start with one ember you should never be in a situation like that. If you know that an add will be coming out soon, then don't spend all your embers. It's about playing smart, not just mindlessly dumping all your embers because you can.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by neubs986 View Post
    If you don't have an add to cast Chaos Bolt on, then what are you going to be casting incinerate on? Furthermore, seeing as you start with one ember you should never be in a situation like that. If you know that an add will be coming out soon, then don't spend all your embers. It's about playing smart, not just mindlessly dumping all your embers because you can.
    Perhaps the add will die before the chaos bolt would get to it?

    Also, say you just came out of a double-damage phase, would you really not dump all your embers with CDs in the double-damage phase?

  18. #138
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Spook central
    Posts
    4,109
    the trick with cleaving three Shadowburns onto a second target by means if Havoc is INSANELY AWESOME.
    Tried it last night on various DS encounters to amazing effect.

  19. #139
    Is Observer still the pet to use in 5.0.5 with the 25% tounge lash nerf?
    Main: Monk

    Alt: Pally

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by martini View Post
    Is Observer still the pet to use in 5.0.5 with the 25% tounge lash nerf?
    Sacrifice was always better at level 85.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •